What is your experience? at DVinfo.net

Bruce Pelley · May 14th, 2004, 05:33 PM

What is the reliability and durability of a 80 min versus a 60 minute tape?

Is there some loss of quality because the tape is thinner?

I need a method greater than 60 minutes in SP mode without having to:

a)change the tape and lose continuity....

or:

b)opt for a tapeless solution which starts in the region of about 500-600 dollars.

Ever had one of these break on you?Are some brands better than others?

Is it a major expense if one snarls up inside your machine?

How many times can you reuse a tape and still about the same results?

Thanks for your help,experience and observations.

Bruce

Ken Tanaka · May 14th, 2004, 06:05 PM

What is the reliability and durability of a 80 min versus a 60 minute tape?

Not as good. The tape is thinner and more prone to stretching and breaking.

Is there some loss of quality because the tape is thinner?

No. Digital video is, by definition, made of 1's and 0's. It could theoretically be written on paper.

I need a method greater than 60 minutes in SP mode without having to:
a)change the tape and lose continuity....
or:
b)opt for a tapeless solution which starts in the region of about 500-600 dollars.

I vote for (b). (What are you planning to record?) See our Direct-to-Disk area for ideas.

Ever had one of these break on you?Are some brands better than others?

If, by "one of these" you mean an 80min tape...Break, no. Fail, yes. I don't know if any are "better" than others but I doubt it.

Is it a major expense if one snarls up inside your machine?

Yes, it could be a costly inconvenience, not to mention that you'll be without your camera during service.

How many times can you reuse a tape and still about the same results?

Theoretically, several times. As a practical matter, however, once. Tape is cheap. Why take chances.

Bruce Pelley · May 15th, 2004, 09:05 PM

Quite often I shoot a church service solo on a weekly basis whose length runs anywhere from an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and a half.So,I have to be picky,choosy and maximize shot selection to the extent possible.In reality,that means the tape can run out right in the middle of the sermon which is not ideal if you're the only person doing the shoot!Some speakers are longer than others so the wildcard is the length of the sermon which is unpredictable.Since this is strictly on a volunteer basis,as I'm utilizing my own equipment as the church doesn't have much spare funding,and my own financial resources are limited,my view is that it's expensive & not cost effective to go out and spend say 600 dollars for a 2 hour tapeless solution.Yes,I could work with the pastor to trim down the parts of the service that are best filmed to collectively be under 60 minutes,however that's not easily achieved.

If 80 minute tapes were more durable that extra 20 minute cushion would suffice or if money wasn't an issue,the tapeless solution might be ideal.

Bruce

Ken Tanaka · May 15th, 2004, 09:31 PM

I see.

Well if I were faced with the same situation here's how I'd be inclined to decide on a best path.

The 80 min tapes really are less reliable. But what do you really do with the tapes you shoot at your church services? How many times are the tapes rewound and played for capture? How often are the tapes themselves played? How really critical are these tapes?

My point: The risk of a 90 min. tape's failures and defects may be acceptable when measured against the potential consequences. I'd be inclined to use them for this purpose, remaining informed of the potential hazard. It's a darn sight less risky than shooting in LP on a 60 min cassette.

Bruce Pelley · May 15th, 2004, 09:51 PM

Ken,

The main point/objective is to shoot the service,capture it the first time in its entirety to the computer,do onboard editing and burn to dvd or archive to SVHS/mini-dv without repeated rewinds and capturing sessions.Of course that's supposing there's no glitches or other techincal malfunctions or difficulties occuring during the process.I agree,LP mode should be avoided!The tape serves as a master and is the source medium.After editing,the end product is broadcast on public cable access,so if the tape breaks or whatever the effort has been wasted because it's the one and only tape.There's no back-up.

Thanks....

Bruce.

Bryan Beasleigh · May 22nd, 2004, 09:26 PM

Change the tape during the offering /collection. Have this set up with the pastor. Is your camera a top or bottom loader?

Bruce Pelley · May 22nd, 2004, 09:43 PM

Humnnnn...that's a good/interesting idea.

It's true,its not a preferable thing to tape the offering segment which would show who may be giving and who's not!

It all depends when they are taking the offering in relationship to all the other segments of the service that are being filmed.

Let me think about the ramifications and potential of that one.

Thanks!

Bruce

Bruce Pelley · May 22nd, 2004, 09:45 PM

My GL-2 is a top end loader.

May 14th, 2004, 05:33 PM	#1
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	What is your experience? What is the reliability and durability of a 80 min versus a 60 minute tape? Is there some loss of quality because the tape is thinner? I need a method greater than 60 minutes in SP mode without having to: a)change the tape and lose continuity.... or: b)opt for a tapeless solution which starts in the region of about 500-600 dollars. Ever had one of these break on you?Are some brands better than others? Is it a major expense if one snarls up inside your machine? How many times can you reuse a tape and still about the same results? Thanks for your help,experience and observations. Bruce

May 14th, 2004, 06:05 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Re: What is your experience? What is the reliability and durability of a 80 min versus a 60 minute tape? Not as good. The tape is thinner and more prone to stretching and breaking. Is there some loss of quality because the tape is thinner? No. Digital video is, by definition, made of 1's and 0's. It could theoretically be written on paper. I need a method greater than 60 minutes in SP mode without having to: a)change the tape and lose continuity.... or: b)opt for a tapeless solution which starts in the region of about 500-600 dollars. I vote for (b). (What are you planning to record?) See our Direct-to-Disk area for ideas. Ever had one of these break on you?Are some brands better than others? If, by "one of these" you mean an 80min tape...Break, no. Fail, yes. I don't know if any are "better" than others but I doubt it. Is it a major expense if one snarls up inside your machine? Yes, it could be a costly inconvenience, not to mention that you'll be without your camera during service. How many times can you reuse a tape and still about the same results? Theoretically, several times. As a practical matter, however, once. Tape is cheap. Why take chances. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 15th, 2004, 09:05 PM	#3
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Ken,here's why I need more than 60 MIN Quite often I shoot a church service solo on a weekly basis whose length runs anywhere from an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and a half.So,I have to be picky,choosy and maximize shot selection to the extent possible.In reality,that means the tape can run out right in the middle of the sermon which is not ideal if you're the only person doing the shoot!Some speakers are longer than others so the wildcard is the length of the sermon which is unpredictable.Since this is strictly on a volunteer basis,as I'm utilizing my own equipment as the church doesn't have much spare funding,and my own financial resources are limited,my view is that it's expensive & not cost effective to go out and spend say 600 dollars for a 2 hour tapeless solution.Yes,I could work with the pastor to trim down the parts of the service that are best filmed to collectively be under 60 minutes,however that's not easily achieved. If 80 minute tapes were more durable that extra 20 minute cushion would suffice or if money wasn't an issue,the tapeless solution might be ideal. Bruce

May 15th, 2004, 09:31 PM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I see. Well if I were faced with the same situation here's how I'd be inclined to decide on a best path. The 80 min tapes really are less reliable. But what do you really do with the tapes you shoot at your church services? How many times are the tapes rewound and played for capture? How often are the tapes themselves played? How really critical are these tapes? My point: The risk of a 90 min. tape's failures and defects may be acceptable when measured against the potential consequences. I'd be inclined to use them for this purpose, remaining informed of the potential hazard. It's a darn sight less risky than shooting in LP on a 60 min cassette. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 15th, 2004, 09:51 PM	#5
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Actually to date I've never used a 83 min tape. Ken, The main point/objective is to shoot the service,capture it the first time in its entirety to the computer,do onboard editing and burn to dvd or archive to SVHS/mini-dv without repeated rewinds and capturing sessions.Of course that's supposing there's no glitches or other techincal malfunctions or difficulties occuring during the process.I agree,LP mode should be avoided!The tape serves as a master and is the source medium.After editing,the end product is broadcast on public cable access,so if the tape breaks or whatever the effort has been wasted because it's the one and only tape.There's no back-up. Thanks.... Bruce.

May 22nd, 2004, 09:26 PM	#6
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Change the tape during the offering /collection. Have this set up with the pastor. Is your camera a top or bottom loader? __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

May 22nd, 2004, 09:43 PM	#7
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Changing the tape in the midst.... Humnnnn...that's a good/interesting idea. It's true,its not a preferable thing to tape the offering segment which would show who may be giving and who's not! It all depends when they are taking the offering in relationship to all the other segments of the service that are being filmed. Let me think about the ramifications and potential of that one. Thanks! Bruce

May 22nd, 2004, 09:45 PM	#8
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Whoops to answer your question My GL-2 is a top end loader.