DVCAM time max

[Emily Rumsey]

I am going to be buying a sony PD-170 very soon, but before I take the plunge I'm looking for advice from some 170 owners about the length of tape. Does it become bothersome to change tape so often, without the option of the 90 minute tape that you could use with a DV camera? Also, I've been peeking around websites to buy DVCAM tapes in bulk and most of them only have the 40 minute small cassette tapes. Can you even get them in 60 minutes?

Thanks!

[Ron Evans]

DV and DVCam use the same tape sizes however DVCam runs at 1.5 times the speed of DV so for the same tape length will be 2/3 the time. ie 40 mins DVCam uses same tape as 60 mins DV. So the maximum time for the mini tapes is 40 mins for DVCam and 60 for DV. These are the maximum lengths without going to the thinner tape loaded in the 80 min SP speed DV mini tapes. Sony cleverly only puts two speeds on their camcorders so the pro PD series has DVCam and SP speed DV. So in DVCam the maximum run time is 40mins hence the advertized tape length of 40mins DVCam. However this same tape switched to DV will run for 60mins. The consumers series also has two speeds SP and LP so will run 60 mins or 90 mins for the same tape ( it doesn't matter if it says DV or DVCam on the tape box just adjust the time accordingly but what ever you do STAY with ONE BRAND). Unless you have clients that insist upon DVCam use DV and get the longer times with NLE you will not see the difference.
I suggest you find out a little more before putting out your cash. Why the PD170? Adam Wilts site contains a vast amount of information. IF you record long events then consider the Panasonic AG DVC200 or the JVC DV5000 as these take the larger Standard size DV tapes which will run for over 4 hours.

Ron Evans

[Mike Rehmus]

An alternative to tape is to consider one of the firewire-connected hard disk capture systems from Sony and others. I think you can get up to 6 hours of capture and then transfer or use it directly in your editing system.

A PD170 and one of these systems will be less expensive, not necessarily better, than the larger cameras, the lens or battery system of which can cost more than the PD170.

[Bankim Jain]

I am a PD150 & Panasonic AGDV200 user ! PD150 is almost identicle apart from the difference of non existing Wide adopter and few physical look changes in PD170.

1. Dont buy DVCAM tapes for your camcorder cox they would be runing max 40minutes in recording time. Instead use standard DV tapes in DV recording mode and they shall run 60 minutes in length. There is no visible quality difference in DV & DVCAM recording in PD's.

2. If you have a higher budget then do go for Panasonic AGDV200.



Cheers !

Bankim Jain

www.freewebs.com/my_setup.htm

[Emily Rumsey]

thanks for all of the advice guys. i think part of my problem is that i have a random brand adherence to sony, perhaps because that's what we used in film school. i will look into the panny options, however, and try to get over my arbitrary attachment to brand S.

[Mike Rehmus]

You probably know that I have fairly strong feelings that the best outcome is when you use the manufacturer's tape in their cameras. Best possible match of tape to transport needs.

60 minute (40 minute in DVCam mode) Sony tapes can be purchased in small quantities for under $4 per tape. No need to buy expensive tapes for use in a NLE-based operation.

[Bill Pryor]

I started out in 16mm film when you had to change magazines after about 10 minutes of running time. When I moved to 3/4" video with its 20 minute minicassettes, I thought that was fantastic. Then when I moved to BetacamSP with its 30 minute minicassettes, that was even better.
And then along came full size DVCAM tapes, and now I get 3 hours running time. I guess that's OK...but the only time it has been significant is on the rare occasion that I have to shoot some sort of event that lasts over an hour. The 40 minute running time of a miniDVCAM tape is fine in almost all cases unless you shoot events. And, if you want you could always shoot a PD150/170 in DV mode to get an hour off the same tape if necessary.

[Emily Rumsey]

i've shot a good deal of 16mm, and that was one of the ways i convinced myself that i'd be OK with the shorter DVCAM tapes. the longest roll i would shoot was 400'. it's a good comparison! keeps me thinking good things about the PD-170.

[Mike Rehmus]

I almost never shoot in DVCam mode with my 150. There just is no advantage to DVCam in an NLE environment. I've never had a problem with DV footage.

[Julian Luttrell]

Mike,

I take issue with there being _no_ advantage to DVCAM in an NLE world.

I always use DVCAM (despite using more tape) because on the PDX10 DVCAM mode lets me set the time code. That way, on a 3 tape shoot, I can have tape 1 01:kk:ll:mm, tape 2 02:kk:ll:mm etc.

Regards,

Julian

[Emily Rumsey]

yes, i like this feature. very helpful for lots of doc footage.

[Bill Pryor]

Also, the DVCAM recording is a better quality--not in terms of visual quality but in terms of the recording itself, with better durability and less chance of dropouts. For me, tape is about the cheapest thing I can buy for a production (other than pizza), and I want to use the best I can.
The time code issue is a big one for me too, especially when dealing with hours and hours of tape. And, there's the locked audio issue, although I've never seen any sync drift with the DV tapes I've had in.
I have seen dropouts in DV tapes, but they've always been from consumer camcorders shot by non-professionals. The pros who have shot DV tapes that I've edited have never had dropouts in their stuff they've brought to me.

[Mike Rehmus]

Julian, that is a function of a particular camera – to tie time-code and DVCam together – and not a feature of DVCam recording per-se. I stick with my comment that DVCam is not necessary in a NLE environment.

I find that just marking the tape 1, 2, & 3 works fine for me. For some NLE systems, perhaps a sequential time code is important.