How much constant playback/rewind/foward until it causes damage/wear?

Graham Bernard · January 17th, 2004, 02:32 AM

Hiyah David . . . what are you really concerned/worried about? Is it you spent a lot of money on something that may break? Or is it something else?

As with the thread on the KATA bag and Don's reply to you, " . . go forth to make videos!" . . I too reiterate this.

Look, I/you/we are dealing with miniDV. It uses a combination of tiny, tiny parts and micro electronics. It is not what IMHO is the "perfect" solution . . until we can get our hands on something that is fairly "bolted" down - like a Land Rover type of cammie - this "stage" of the development of cameras for video is as good as it gets - so far. In a few years time, when cammies will be totally solid state, with a lens at one end and a Sateltie link straight to your edit deck, we are needing to "deal" with the present state of affairs - basically, this is as good as it gets. Some cammies ARE more robust than others. And some of those are manufactured better that their sisters and brothers - that's the way of World. I've got OIS on my Canon XM2. Compared to Sony's Steady Shot - if that's what it is called - IMHO, Canon doesn't come near it . . .I've tested this out wioth the Canon dealer here in London, and he too was not impressed . . . others have had success with the OIS system . . . quite frnakly my father's aged Panasonic analogue version of steady whatever, is far far better than the OIS I've got on my £1600 XM2 . . go figure . .

At the "end-of-the-day", David, go and shoot work,and have a little fun . . please! - You bought a fine camera . .and not for a little amount of money . . . at some point it'll break down - period.. . Yes, you are asking the correct questions but I'm wanting you to have fun and have some serious "reflection" on your filming techniques and the like . ..

. .Stop worrying and be happy! I'm looking forward to hearing your "feedback" as to how well you are doing with the cammie and getting some of "Wow!" stuff that keeps most of us video-heads obssesed with this activity - Now THAT's something I'd like to talk to you about . . .

These are my comments, if you wish to take onboard anything here, great . . . go have fun!

My very best regards,

Grazie - VideoNutz ;-)

Ken Tanaka · January 17th, 2004, 02:50 AM

David,
I've been following this thread for a while and I have to basically agree with Graham's suggestion. Use the best tape grade you can afford (and stick with it), use good care and sense in handling your camera and tapes. But just start shooting and don't obsess about the wear and tear on the camera. I certainly understand your urge to coddle such a relatively expensive piece of gear. But it's far more important that you just enjoy it and start getting as much practice with it as possible.

I can nearly guarantee that the camera is capable of outliving your interest in it.

David Ho · January 17th, 2004, 03:29 AM

Well, the thing I am most concerned about is dealing with an expensive piece of equipment and knowing that it will break down, and then don't knowing how to fix it or what happens next....the fear of uncertainty has gotten to me.

Graham Bernard · January 17th, 2004, 06:16 AM

Join the club David!

I need to use my cammie for wedding work. Sometimes I get to be relied upon on getting "the" shot . . yer wanna try that for pressure. Having said that, I can really appreciate your concerns. This is good feedback you are giving. What you may wish to recognise is that you aint alone; that here is a pile of help here when and IF you should you get into trouble and that you do have the backup of Canon itself.

Life is mostly uncertain; sometimes, sometimes it's tragic. I guess I/you/we when getting involved in this dv stuff is far far away from the latter. Hey, I've been there! I've pondered much about tapes and bags and . . and etc etc . . but what "keeps" me going is that final final edit up on the screen. THAT's gotta be it for me. Is this the same for you? . . . take time to answer . . .

Uncertaintanty? Death and taxes are the only things I know of that are a bankable bet. Everything else is on our own watch. Be part of the Parade - This AINT a rehearsal . . . go out and have fun. Who is really stopping you doing this? Discuss . . . While we are being honest, 2 years back I would never have thought I would have been owning, let alone making money from, film work using my own "broadcast" quality cammie . . . This Forum and others, namely the Vegas site chums I've got, have helped me masses. Yes on the trechnical side BUT also building my confidence in my own abilities. Oh yes, there are others too . . but that's another story ;-)

Again, my best regards and my thanks for your very evident honesty.

Grazie

Don Bloom · January 17th, 2004, 07:38 AM

David, I've tried to answer your questions with the understanding that you had some genuine concerns about breakage but please remember that your camera is a TOOL of the trade. Thats all and tools like this are not, never have been nor never will be perfect nor indestructable.

Not to belabor the point but PLEASE stop obsessing about wear and tear on the camera and go shoot some video with your fine new tool and have fun with it. One can drive themselves crazy worry about the little things like this. I could, but I won't, tell you many stories about equipment failure-video equipment, still equipment and more importantly equipment that at one time my life depended on-made the still and video failures seem very trivial.

Don't worry about something that WILL hapeen at least 2 years from now-do what you bought your new camera to do and GO MAKE VIDEO!
Ken, Grazie thanks for the help
Have fun,
Don

David Ho · January 17th, 2004, 04:24 PM

Okay, one last question... is the whole camcorder warranted, thus making the repairs or replacement of the heads for free?

Jeff Donald · January 17th, 2004, 04:47 PM

Yes, heads are warranted by the manufacture, unless the damage is caused by the user (improper cleaning, sand, moisture etc.)

Don Bloom · January 17th, 2004, 05:07 PM

They DO NOT warranty head replacement due to normal wear and tear from useage OR abuse as Jeff mentioned.

If the heads fail due to a manufacturer defect of some kind typically it would be covered by warranty but NORMAL and TEAR on the heads is not covered.

Thats like normal wear and tear on the tires of a car. Not covered.

If you're not sure what is covered by the warranty read it to clarify any misunderstandings.

Don

David Ho · January 18th, 2004, 04:17 AM

Well, you see...the truth is, my fears really come from the breaking down factor. If I want to shoot something for recreational use, and then play it back for friends or family, I know that I am doing some harm to the camcorder and knowing that the more I do it, the faster it will break down, and then knowing that it is not reversible and not warranted by anything makes me not want to shoot anything. $2k takes hard work to earn it..!

Don Bloom · January 18th, 2004, 07:39 AM

David,
Please do not take this wrong as I know how hard $2000 is to earn but you are obsessing about something that you really don't need to get overly concerned with. Cameras are TOOLS and therefore are treated like such. Please relax and forget about ruining the heads of the camera by shooting and playing back a few hours of tape. Trust me you'll enjoy yourself a lot more if you learn to relax and go with the flow.
'Nuff said.
Don

Graham Bernard · January 18th, 2004, 08:20 AM

Okay, what's stopping you from having fun? Fun with a cammie that you have bought for a lot of hard earned money?

Interesting . ..

Grazie

Jeff Farris · January 18th, 2004, 07:18 PM

David, I don't want you to feel like everyone is picking on you, but....

Do you expect your car to run forever without wear and without maintenance?

Everytime you pull out of your driveway and drive your friends and family around the block, you are wearing your car out.

Relax, shoot, review, show off, have a ball and quit worrying.

Graham Bernard · January 19th, 2004, 01:10 AM

David, you deserve to have fun with your cammie. I'm very much looking forward to hearing from you when you've shot some stuff with it. This is where you will start to enjoy your investment. Tell me, what type of filming takes your interest? What is it you are wanting to do? OOOhhh are YOU gonna have fun . . !

I believe you are going to produce some very interesting and rewarding footage.

Best regards,

Grazie

Sharon Fraats · January 19th, 2004, 01:32 AM

If you want your friends to see it transfer it to VHS from your CAM this way no lose.

Graham Bernard · January 19th, 2004, 01:36 AM

Very good point Sharon . . I should've seen that one! Excellent sensible feedback.

Grazie

January 17th, 2004, 02:50 AM	#17
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	David, I've been following this thread for a while and I have to basically agree with Graham's suggestion. Use the best tape grade you can afford (and stick with it), use good care and sense in handling your camera and tapes. But just start shooting and don't obsess about the wear and tear on the camera. I certainly understand your urge to coddle such a relatively expensive piece of gear. But it's far more important that you just enjoy it and start getting as much practice with it as possible. I can nearly guarantee that the camera is capable of outliving your interest in it. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 17th, 2004, 03:29 AM	#18
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Well, the thing I am most concerned about is dealing with an expensive piece of equipment and knowing that it will break down, and then don't knowing how to fix it or what happens next....the fear of uncertainty has gotten to me. __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

January 17th, 2004, 06:16 AM	#19
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Don't worry - you aint alone Pal! Join the club David! I need to use my cammie for wedding work. Sometimes I get to be relied upon on getting "the" shot . . yer wanna try that for pressure. Having said that, I can really appreciate your concerns. This is good feedback you are giving. What you may wish to recognise is that you aint alone; that here is a pile of help here when and IF you should you get into trouble and that you do have the backup of Canon itself. Life is mostly uncertain; sometimes, sometimes it's tragic. I guess I/you/we when getting involved in this dv stuff is far far away from the latter. Hey, I've been there! I've pondered much about tapes and bags and . . and etc etc . . but what "keeps" me going is that final final edit up on the screen. THAT's gotta be it for me. Is this the same for you? . . . take time to answer . . . Uncertaintanty? Death and taxes are the only things I know of that are a bankable bet. Everything else is on our own watch. Be part of the Parade - This AINT a rehearsal . . . go out and have fun. Who is really stopping you doing this? Discuss . . . While we are being honest, 2 years back I would never have thought I would have been owning, let alone making money from, film work using my own "broadcast" quality cammie . . . This Forum and others, namely the Vegas site chums I've got, have helped me masses. Yes on the trechnical side BUT also building my confidence in my own abilities. Oh yes, there are others too . . but that's another story ;-) Again, my best regards and my thanks for your very evident honesty. Grazie

January 17th, 2004, 04:24 PM	#21
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Okay, one last question... is the whole camcorder warranted, thus making the repairs or replacement of the heads for free? __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

January 17th, 2004, 04:47 PM	#22
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Yes, heads are warranted by the manufacture, unless the damage is caused by the user (improper cleaning, sand, moisture etc.) __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 17th, 2004, 02:32 AM	#16
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Hiyah David . . . what are you really concerned/worried about? Is it you spent a lot of money on something that may break? Or is it something else? As with the thread on the KATA bag and Don's reply to you, " . . go forth to make videos!" . . I too reiterate this. Look, I/you/we are dealing with miniDV. It uses a combination of tiny, tiny parts and micro electronics. It is not what IMHO is the "perfect" solution . . until we can get our hands on something that is fairly "bolted" down - like a Land Rover type of cammie - this "stage" of the development of cameras for video is as good as it gets - so far. In a few years time, when cammies will be totally solid state, with a lens at one end and a Sateltie link straight to your edit deck, we are needing to "deal" with the present state of affairs - basically, this is as good as it gets. Some cammies ARE more robust than others. And some of those are manufactured better that their sisters and brothers - that's the way of World. I've got OIS on my Canon XM2. Compared to Sony's Steady Shot - if that's what it is called - IMHO, Canon doesn't come near it . . .I've tested this out wioth the Canon dealer here in London, and he too was not impressed . . . others have had success with the OIS system . . . quite frnakly my father's aged Panasonic analogue version of steady whatever, is far far better than the OIS I've got on my £1600 XM2 . . go figure . . At the "end-of-the-day", David, go and shoot work,and have a little fun . . please! - You bought a fine camera . .and not for a little amount of money . . . at some point it'll break down - period.. . Yes, you are asking the correct questions but I'm wanting you to have fun and have some serious "reflection" on your filming techniques and the like . .. . .Stop worrying and be happy! I'm looking forward to hearing your "feedback" as to how well you are doing with the cammie and getting some of "Wow!" stuff that keeps most of us video-heads obssesed with this activity - Now THAT's something I'd like to talk to you about . . . These are my comments, if you wish to take onboard anything here, great . . . go have fun! My very best regards, Grazie - VideoNutz ;-)

January 17th, 2004, 07:38 AM	#20
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	David, I've tried to answer your questions with the understanding that you had some genuine concerns about breakage but please remember that your camera is a TOOL of the trade. Thats all and tools like this are not, never have been nor never will be perfect nor indestructable. Not to belabor the point but PLEASE stop obsessing about wear and tear on the camera and go shoot some video with your fine new tool and have fun with it. One can drive themselves crazy worry about the little things like this. I could, but I won't, tell you many stories about equipment failure-video equipment, still equipment and more importantly equipment that at one time my life depended on-made the still and video failures seem very trivial. Don't worry about something that WILL hapeen at least 2 years from now-do what you bought your new camera to do and GO MAKE VIDEO! Ken, Grazie thanks for the help Have fun, Don

January 17th, 2004, 05:07 PM	#23
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	They DO NOT warranty head replacement due to normal wear and tear from useage OR abuse as Jeff mentioned. If the heads fail due to a manufacturer defect of some kind typically it would be covered by warranty but NORMAL and TEAR on the heads is not covered. Thats like normal wear and tear on the tires of a car. Not covered. If you're not sure what is covered by the warranty read it to clarify any misunderstandings. Don

January 18th, 2004, 04:17 AM	#24
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Well, you see...the truth is, my fears really come from the breaking down factor. If I want to shoot something for recreational use, and then play it back for friends or family, I know that I am doing some harm to the camcorder and knowing that the more I do it, the faster it will break down, and then knowing that it is not reversible and not warranted by anything makes me not want to shoot anything. $2k takes hard work to earn it..! __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

January 18th, 2004, 07:39 AM	#25
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	David, Please do not take this wrong as I know how hard $2000 is to earn but you are obsessing about something that you really don't need to get overly concerned with. Cameras are TOOLS and therefore are treated like such. Please relax and forget about ruining the heads of the camera by shooting and playing back a few hours of tape. Trust me you'll enjoy yourself a lot more if you learn to relax and go with the flow. 'Nuff said. Don

January 18th, 2004, 08:20 AM	#26
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Okay, what's stopping you from having fun? Fun with a cammie that you have bought for a lot of hard earned money? Interesting . .. Grazie

January 18th, 2004, 07:18 PM	#27
Jeff Farris Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 102	David, I don't want you to feel like everyone is picking on you, but.... Do you expect your car to run forever without wear and without maintenance? Everytime you pull out of your driveway and drive your friends and family around the block, you are wearing your car out. Relax, shoot, review, show off, have a ball and quit worrying. __________________ Jeff Farris

January 19th, 2004, 01:10 AM	#28
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	David, you deserve to have fun with your cammie. I'm very much looking forward to hearing from you when you've shot some stuff with it. This is where you will start to enjoy your investment. Tell me, what type of filming takes your interest? What is it you are wanting to do? OOOhhh are YOU gonna have fun . . ! I believe you are going to produce some very interesting and rewarding footage. Best regards, Grazie

January 19th, 2004, 01:32 AM	#29
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	If you want your friends to see it transfer it to VHS from your CAM this way no lose.

January 19th, 2004, 01:36 AM	#30
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Very good point Sharon . . I should've seen that one! Excellent sensible feedback. Grazie