Glitches, what would you do?

G. Randy Brown · February 9th, 2004, 02:04 PM

I just received a call from JVC Repair and they will be sending me a new unit also, so that they can send my old one to "research". The techs seem to be blaming the Sony tapes (actually any tape that uses a wet lubricant). I think I'm going to clean the heads of my XL1s' and switch to JVC ME and keep my fingers crossed.
Randy

Tom Voigt · February 11th, 2004, 04:16 PM

I was at a trade show yesterday in South San Francisco and told the JVC rep there (Brian Rutz) about my problems with my new VS30U.

Brian had not heard about any problems with the glitches (stars and bars I called them) when capturing thru firewire. I told him it was a hot topic in at least two online fora and that Ken Freed was tracking it. "Yes, he's my East Coast counterpart".

I told him about the refusal of the machine to input the Fuji AME 80 minute tapes, with the "Use Head Cleaner" message. Brian's response was that the VS30U was a professional level machine with professional level heads and transport mechanism. As such it was more finicky about doing things right than consumer level goods such as my Canon GL-2. "It may be fine for Aunt Mabel to tape her nephew's birthday party, but it is not professional grade", and as such allows a lot more slop than the JVC machine. The problem apparently is that the thinner tape base of the 80 minute tape holds a weaker magnetic field. This weaker magnetic field is interpreted by the VS30U as a need to clean the heads. Also the Canon cameras, especially the XL1s, do not keep a tight alignment on the track that the magnetic field is written to, and this can also cause problems for the JVC professional decks.

Brian's bottom line: Never use 80 minute tapes, never use LP mode, and if you are using TDK tapes from Costco, good luck to you, they are junk tapes cut from the very outside edges of the 1 meter wide strip of mylar on which the magnetic coating is deposited.

All I have to say is, "Thank God for Aunt Mabel and her consumer grade GL-2". It allowed me to import three Fuji AME 80 minute tapes recorded in LP mode containing an hour and 38 minute Act I with no dropouts among the three. Two of the tapes were recorded on Optura Pi's, one on the GL-2.

Act II was only 55 minutes long and was recorded on those Costco TDK tapes in LP mode. The VS30U did successfully import two of the three, and I have only noticed on frame so far with the glitches in Act II. So while the glitches problem still exists using the new computer, it is MUCH reduced. If you have this problem, try switching computers, cables, Firewire cards, etc. to see if that helps.

-Tom-

Tom Voigt · February 11th, 2004, 04:23 PM

While I was at the trade show I stopped at the Maxell media booth, Fuji media booth, and Sony media booth and asked the reps "Does your mini-DV tapes use wet or dry lubricants, and which should I be using in my camera?"

None of them knew. While I was talking to the Fuji rep, the media sales person for Snader & Associates joined the conversation. "Everyone asks me that question, and I don't know what to tell them", she said. So she didn't know either.

There seems to be a huge amount of fear, uncertainty, and doubt about this and ZERO reliable hard information.

FWIW I did learn from the Snader rep that Fuji makes the Panasonic and JVC mini-DV's as well as there own brand.

-Tom-

G. Randy Brown · February 24th, 2004, 02:05 PM

FWIW, as I mentioned above, the techs were wanting to blame the Sony tapes but no such luck in my test. I really had my hopes up too after seeing no glitches on the one JVC tape I captured from an associates' XL1 recorded tape.
Anyway, I bought a JVC tape and the problem persists.
Very discouraging, looks like we may have bought ourselves a very expensive simple D/A converter.
Randy

Tom Voigt · February 24th, 2004, 09:44 PM

Well I am keeping mine, it does too much that I need done to send it back with no alternatives.

With the new computer the problem is perhaps every 10 minutes instead of every 1 minute, so I can live with it.

Try swapping Firewire cards, cables, etc. and see if anything helps.

-tom-

G. Randy Brown · February 25th, 2004, 08:22 AM

As uppity as it sounds, every 10 minutes is not acceptable for me..it's very frustrating and time consuming to recapture the tape (that particular clip) only to have it do it in a different place. For now I'll just capture and PTT from an XL1 and use the deck to convert a TV external monitor and on the rare occasions that I need to make VHS dubs.... however I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that they are actually working on the problem. I e-mailed Ken yesterday to ask him to let the techs know it has nothing to do with wet lubricant tapes and he e-mailed with a thanks.
I feel certain that Ken is actually concerned even if it is only a handful of people with the problem.
Randy

Mark A. Foley · February 25th, 2004, 08:42 AM

Randy,
I got my replacement deck and captured two Panny tapes with no glitches.....
Good luck with your adventure!....

G. Randy Brown · February 25th, 2004, 08:57 AM

Just regular 60 minute Panasonic tapes...any specifics like "Premium" or "Excellence" or "Satin Smooth Way Cool" or...?
I'll certainly give them a shot...you did shoot the footage with your XL1 right?
Thanks Mark,
Randy

Mark A. Foley · February 25th, 2004, 09:10 AM

My bad Randy....
I'm trying Panny's AY-DVM63PQ.....

G. Randy Brown · February 25th, 2004, 09:55 AM

Thanks Mark, I'll try them!
Randy

Mark A. Foley · February 25th, 2004, 10:12 AM

woops...and yes it was shot on one of my XL1s....

February 9th, 2004, 02:04 PM	#46
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Sony tapes I just received a call from JVC Repair and they will be sending me a new unit also, so that they can send my old one to "research". The techs seem to be blaming the Sony tapes (actually any tape that uses a wet lubricant). I think I'm going to clean the heads of my XL1s' and switch to JVC ME and keep my fingers crossed. Randy

February 11th, 2004, 04:16 PM	#47
Tom Voigt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 92	Here's What the JVC Rep Said...... I was at a trade show yesterday in South San Francisco and told the JVC rep there (Brian Rutz) about my problems with my new VS30U. Brian had not heard about any problems with the glitches (stars and bars I called them) when capturing thru firewire. I told him it was a hot topic in at least two online fora and that Ken Freed was tracking it. "Yes, he's my East Coast counterpart". I told him about the refusal of the machine to input the Fuji AME 80 minute tapes, with the "Use Head Cleaner" message. Brian's response was that the VS30U was a professional level machine with professional level heads and transport mechanism. As such it was more finicky about doing things right than consumer level goods such as my Canon GL-2. "It may be fine for Aunt Mabel to tape her nephew's birthday party, but it is not professional grade", and as such allows a lot more slop than the JVC machine. The problem apparently is that the thinner tape base of the 80 minute tape holds a weaker magnetic field. This weaker magnetic field is interpreted by the VS30U as a need to clean the heads. Also the Canon cameras, especially the XL1s, do not keep a tight alignment on the track that the magnetic field is written to, and this can also cause problems for the JVC professional decks. Brian's bottom line: Never use 80 minute tapes, never use LP mode, and if you are using TDK tapes from Costco, good luck to you, they are junk tapes cut from the very outside edges of the 1 meter wide strip of mylar on which the magnetic coating is deposited. All I have to say is, "Thank God for Aunt Mabel and her consumer grade GL-2". It allowed me to import three Fuji AME 80 minute tapes recorded in LP mode containing an hour and 38 minute Act I with no dropouts among the three. Two of the tapes were recorded on Optura Pi's, one on the GL-2. Act II was only 55 minutes long and was recorded on those Costco TDK tapes in LP mode. The VS30U did successfully import two of the three, and I have only noticed on frame so far with the glitches in Act II. So while the glitches problem still exists using the new computer, it is MUCH reduced. If you have this problem, try switching computers, cables, Firewire cards, etc. to see if that helps. -Tom-

February 11th, 2004, 04:23 PM	#48
Tom Voigt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 92	At the trade show, "Wet vs. Dry" While I was at the trade show I stopped at the Maxell media booth, Fuji media booth, and Sony media booth and asked the reps "Does your mini-DV tapes use wet or dry lubricants, and which should I be using in my camera?" None of them knew. While I was talking to the Fuji rep, the media sales person for Snader & Associates joined the conversation. "Everyone asks me that question, and I don't know what to tell them", she said. So she didn't know either. There seems to be a huge amount of fear, uncertainty, and doubt about this and ZERO reliable hard information. FWIW I did learn from the Snader rep that Fuji makes the Panasonic and JVC mini-DV's as well as there own brand. -Tom-

February 24th, 2004, 02:05 PM	#49
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	FWIW, as I mentioned above, the techs were wanting to blame the Sony tapes but no such luck in my test. I really had my hopes up too after seeing no glitches on the one JVC tape I captured from an associates' XL1 recorded tape. Anyway, I bought a JVC tape and the problem persists. Very discouraging, looks like we may have bought ourselves a very expensive simple D/A converter. Randy

February 24th, 2004, 09:44 PM	#50
Tom Voigt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 92	Well I am keeping mine, it does too much that I need done to send it back with no alternatives. With the new computer the problem is perhaps every 10 minutes instead of every 1 minute, so I can live with it. Try swapping Firewire cards, cables, etc. and see if anything helps. -tom-

February 25th, 2004, 08:22 AM	#51
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	As uppity as it sounds, every 10 minutes is not acceptable for me..it's very frustrating and time consuming to recapture the tape (that particular clip) only to have it do it in a different place. For now I'll just capture and PTT from an XL1 and use the deck to convert a TV external monitor and on the rare occasions that I need to make VHS dubs.... however I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that they are actually working on the problem. I e-mailed Ken yesterday to ask him to let the techs know it has nothing to do with wet lubricant tapes and he e-mailed with a thanks. I feel certain that Ken is actually concerned even if it is only a handful of people with the problem. Randy

February 25th, 2004, 08:42 AM	#52
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Randy, I got my replacement deck and captured two Panny tapes with no glitches..... Good luck with your adventure!....

February 25th, 2004, 08:57 AM	#53
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Just regular 60 minute Panasonic tapes...any specifics like "Premium" or "Excellence" or "Satin Smooth Way Cool" or...? I'll certainly give them a shot...you did shoot the footage with your XL1 right? Thanks Mark, Randy

February 25th, 2004, 09:10 AM	#54
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	My bad Randy.... I'm trying Panny's AY-DVM63PQ.....

February 25th, 2004, 09:55 AM	#55
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Thanks Mark, I'll try them! Randy

February 25th, 2004, 10:12 AM	#56
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	woops...and yes it was shot on one of my XL1s....