Glitches, what would you do?

Mark A. Foley · January 16th, 2004, 01:11 PM

Lorinda,
you mentioned Tom being on to something....what?

:-)

Lorinda Norton · January 16th, 2004, 01:33 PM

Oh, I was thinking that Vegas may be a culprit after all, but we just killed that theory.

One thing that still stumps me: Why did our tapes, randomly selected and tested, show glitches--both captured clips AND playback through the deck to a monitor?

I can be pretty dense, but it still seems like the above test blows the 1394 theory as well. Capture or no capture, our tapes still had problems through the deck.

I'd forgotten about all this till I stumbled across this thread--now I'm curious all over again! :)

Mark A. Foley · January 16th, 2004, 01:43 PM

One of the things Ken (from JVC) stressed to me from the onset...that the problem isn't consistent in how it shows its ugly head. For me... using the same tape (sony tape with XL1s) that originally showed the mosaic problem...I first put it into an old JVC camera (on power supply)....still got the glitches...used the same camera on battery power...no problems. This is just my equipment...and yours maybe different.

Grounding Differential problems to which JVC claim is the real problem are hard to eliminate....

Lorinda Norton · January 16th, 2004, 02:09 PM

That was, indeed, an interesting test.

Tom, I'm assuming you'll try capturing with your camera on battery power in your tests this weekend?

G. Randy Brown · January 20th, 2004, 05:55 PM

Just FYI:
Someone here may have mentioned a grounding problem but after talking with Ken of JVC today it makes sense to me that it does have something to do with the firewire connecting to the PC and nothing to do with cameras, NLEs, or tapes. As I recall I have never seen the glitches when just reviewing a tape on the TV it's connected to (via the analog connections) ; it's only after a capture that I've noticed it. Regardless he has asked me to run a test and send the unit in (turnaround of 10 days not including shipping time) with the results and they will attempt a modification (I'm guessing to ground something internally).

The test:
1) Watch for glitches (for at least 5 minutes) on the TV (via the analog connections) during my next transfer.

2) run a tape for at least 5 minutes and view on TV to check for glitches without the firewire connected to the computer.

BTW, (I don't know if this is relevant or not but) I've tested my electrical outlets before, and even though they are the 3 prong style they are not double grounded.
I'll try to get a chance to run the test tomorrow and report back
Randy

Mark A. Foley · January 21st, 2004, 03:28 AM

Randy,
I was the one theat mentioned a grounding potential problem...it was Ken at JVC would originaly passed that on to me....please let us know what your further tests results are.....

Mark A. Foley · January 22nd, 2004, 01:59 PM

FYI...
I just got off the phone with JVC...told me it would be over a month before my unit could see a technician....at least it is not going to cost me anything...thankfully......

I sure got spoiled with Canon and there 3 business day turn around....

G. Randy Brown · January 22nd, 2004, 02:14 PM

I transferred 7 minutes of a mini DV yesterday that was recorded on a 3 year old XL1. It was for a client that wanted some DVD copies of a promo video produced by another company that sent me the tape and coincidentally it was a JVC 60ME brand tape... As I was dumping the footage I did not notice one glitch on the TV hooked up via analog and the captured video had no glitches either....hmmmm...I know we're not supposed to mix and match tapes but I wonder if it's worth a shot.
Randy

Mark A. Foley · January 23rd, 2004, 07:15 PM

I'm beginning to believe you're right...as my problems appear to be Sony releated. Bummer...I have a wedding tommorow and alll the tape stock has already been bought....

G. Randy Brown · January 24th, 2004, 08:43 AM

Well I have about 20 tapes (Sony) in stock right now but I'll gladly sell them on Ebay at 2-3 dollars each if this resolves my problem. I've read that Sony's are the only tapes that use a liquid lubricant (as opposed to dry) so maybe that has something to do with it (although people on the Vegas forum have reported the problem with Panasonic and Fuji....but, but, but never JVC).
Anyway, I just now ordered one JVC tape (I live in a rural area and haven't seen anything available but Sony) and see what happens...I'll report my findings. BTW, the JVC tapes are actually a little cheaper than the Sonys.
Thanks Mark...keep your fingers crossed!
Randy

Tom Voigt · January 26th, 2004, 07:32 PM

Well I have decided to keep the VS30U.

I got a new computer for video editing, and the problem seems to be reduced (eliminated?) on the new machine, an eMachines Celeron box with an add-in SIIG Firewire card.

But:
- The machine hates Fuji ME 80 minute tapes. I get "Use Head Cleaner" messages after less than 5 minutes with these tapes.
- Audio is problematic, at least on tapes recorded on EP mode on one of my Canon Optura Pi's.
- There is no machine control over the SVHS side of the deck.
- The manual is of no help in setting up the machine for use as an adjunct to a computer editing system. I did find the information I needed on the Vegas Video forum on the Sony website.

I also tried recording in VHS-ET mode. The tapes have extremely poor playback in a standard VHS deck. So I use just standard VHS. I was hoping that the machine could produce higher quality tapes for viewing on standard VHS decks, but I guess is not to be.

-Tom-

Tom Voigt · January 26th, 2004, 07:36 PM

I used my Canon GL-2 to transfer the Fuji tapes and the TDK tape with the (for the VS30U) problematic audio. (On the VS30U there were whistles and sqeaks up high, and several large audio transients that would also mess up the video for a couple of frames.)

All video and audio was flawless using the GL-2, even though it was EP mode and some of the tapes were recorded on different cameras.

-Tom-

Mark A. Foley · February 4th, 2004, 03:46 AM

Randy/others

I got a call yesterday from JVC concerning my deck at the service center. They have decided to send me a new unit. THey want to keep my deck as a research item. After speaking with the technician, he mentioned possible problems with Sony Premium/Excellence tapes. I couldn't get him to recommend any other brand...but I should consider getting away from sony-type dv tape....

G. Randy Brown · February 4th, 2004, 10:49 AM

I too think it has something to do with Sony tapes; as you'll recall I captured a JVC tape without a single glitch. I ordered the same style, duration JVC tape last week but still haven't received it ( I had the wrong exp. date for my credit card which delayed shipping until yesterday) but will let you know the results when I do.
You gotta hand it to JVC for their service though, after reading your post on JVC telling you it would be a month before a tech could even look at it I called Ken Freed to let him know I had read it on the forum and asked if that would be the case when I send mine in. He said he was not aware of such a delay and assured me that they would get to it right away (it could have something to do with you getting a new one). Not only that but he gave me their FedEx number and asked me to overnight my unit at their expense!
Maybe our efforts here are paying off!
Anyway let's be sure to report back with our results okay?
Thanks Mark,
Randy

Mark A. Foley · February 4th, 2004, 02:08 PM

...will do....

January 26th, 2004, 07:32 PM	#41
Tom Voigt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 92	VS30U Update Well I have decided to keep the VS30U. I got a new computer for video editing, and the problem seems to be reduced (eliminated?) on the new machine, an eMachines Celeron box with an add-in SIIG Firewire card. But: - The machine hates Fuji ME 80 minute tapes. I get "Use Head Cleaner" messages after less than 5 minutes with these tapes. - Audio is problematic, at least on tapes recorded on EP mode on one of my Canon Optura Pi's. - There is no machine control over the SVHS side of the deck. - The manual is of no help in setting up the machine for use as an adjunct to a computer editing system. I did find the information I needed on the Vegas Video forum on the Sony website. I also tried recording in VHS-ET mode. The tapes have extremely poor playback in a standard VHS deck. So I use just standard VHS. I was hoping that the machine could produce higher quality tapes for viewing on standard VHS decks, but I guess is not to be. -Tom-

January 26th, 2004, 07:36 PM	#42
Tom Voigt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 92	And further.... I used my Canon GL-2 to transfer the Fuji tapes and the TDK tape with the (for the VS30U) problematic audio. (On the VS30U there were whistles and sqeaks up high, and several large audio transients that would also mess up the video for a couple of frames.) All video and audio was flawless using the GL-2, even though it was EP mode and some of the tapes were recorded on different cameras. -Tom-

January 16th, 2004, 01:11 PM	#31
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Lorinda, you mentioned Tom being on to something....what? :-)

January 16th, 2004, 01:33 PM	#32
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Oh, I was thinking that Vegas may be a culprit after all, but we just killed that theory. One thing that still stumps me: Why did our tapes, randomly selected and tested, show glitches--both captured clips AND playback through the deck to a monitor? I can be pretty dense, but it still seems like the above test blows the 1394 theory as well. Capture or no capture, our tapes still had problems through the deck. I'd forgotten about all this till I stumbled across this thread--now I'm curious all over again! :)

January 16th, 2004, 01:43 PM	#33
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	One of the things Ken (from JVC) stressed to me from the onset...that the problem isn't consistent in how it shows its ugly head. For me... using the same tape (sony tape with XL1s) that originally showed the mosaic problem...I first put it into an old JVC camera (on power supply)....still got the glitches...used the same camera on battery power...no problems. This is just my equipment...and yours maybe different. Grounding Differential problems to which JVC claim is the real problem are hard to eliminate....

January 16th, 2004, 02:09 PM	#34
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	That was, indeed, an interesting test. Tom, I'm assuming you'll try capturing with your camera on battery power in your tests this weekend?

January 20th, 2004, 05:55 PM	#35
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Just FYI: Someone here may have mentioned a grounding problem but after talking with Ken of JVC today it makes sense to me that it does have something to do with the firewire connecting to the PC and nothing to do with cameras, NLEs, or tapes. As I recall I have never seen the glitches when just reviewing a tape on the TV it's connected to (via the analog connections) ; it's only after a capture that I've noticed it. Regardless he has asked me to run a test and send the unit in (turnaround of 10 days not including shipping time) with the results and they will attempt a modification (I'm guessing to ground something internally). The test: 1) Watch for glitches (for at least 5 minutes) on the TV (via the analog connections) during my next transfer. 2) run a tape for at least 5 minutes and view on TV to check for glitches without the firewire connected to the computer. BTW, (I don't know if this is relevant or not but) I've tested my electrical outlets before, and even though they are the 3 prong style they are not double grounded. I'll try to get a chance to run the test tomorrow and report back Randy

January 21st, 2004, 03:28 AM	#36
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Randy, I was the one theat mentioned a grounding potential problem...it was Ken at JVC would originaly passed that on to me....please let us know what your further tests results are.....

January 22nd, 2004, 01:59 PM	#37
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	FYI... I just got off the phone with JVC...told me it would be over a month before my unit could see a technician....at least it is not going to cost me anything...thankfully...... I sure got spoiled with Canon and there 3 business day turn around....

January 22nd, 2004, 02:14 PM	#38
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	I transferred 7 minutes of a mini DV yesterday that was recorded on a 3 year old XL1. It was for a client that wanted some DVD copies of a promo video produced by another company that sent me the tape and coincidentally it was a JVC 60ME brand tape... As I was dumping the footage I did not notice one glitch on the TV hooked up via analog and the captured video had no glitches either....hmmmm...I know we're not supposed to mix and match tapes but I wonder if it's worth a shot. Randy

January 23rd, 2004, 07:15 PM	#39
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	I'm beginning to believe you're right...as my problems appear to be Sony releated. Bummer...I have a wedding tommorow and alll the tape stock has already been bought....

January 24th, 2004, 08:43 AM	#40
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Well I have about 20 tapes (Sony) in stock right now but I'll gladly sell them on Ebay at 2-3 dollars each if this resolves my problem. I've read that Sony's are the only tapes that use a liquid lubricant (as opposed to dry) so maybe that has something to do with it (although people on the Vegas forum have reported the problem with Panasonic and Fuji....but, but, but never JVC). Anyway, I just now ordered one JVC tape (I live in a rural area and haven't seen anything available but Sony) and see what happens...I'll report my findings. BTW, the JVC tapes are actually a little cheaper than the Sonys. Thanks Mark...keep your fingers crossed! Randy

February 4th, 2004, 03:46 AM	#43
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Randy/others I got a call yesterday from JVC concerning my deck at the service center. They have decided to send me a new unit. THey want to keep my deck as a research item. After speaking with the technician, he mentioned possible problems with Sony Premium/Excellence tapes. I couldn't get him to recommend any other brand...but I should consider getting away from sony-type dv tape....

February 4th, 2004, 10:49 AM	#44
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	I too think it has something to do with Sony tapes; as you'll recall I captured a JVC tape without a single glitch. I ordered the same style, duration JVC tape last week but still haven't received it ( I had the wrong exp. date for my credit card which delayed shipping until yesterday) but will let you know the results when I do. You gotta hand it to JVC for their service though, after reading your post on JVC telling you it would be a month before a tech could even look at it I called Ken Freed to let him know I had read it on the forum and asked if that would be the case when I send mine in. He said he was not aware of such a delay and assured me that they would get to it right away (it could have something to do with you getting a new one). Not only that but he gave me their FedEx number and asked me to overnight my unit at their expense! Maybe our efforts here are paying off! Anyway let's be sure to report back with our results okay? Thanks Mark, Randy

February 4th, 2004, 02:08 PM	#45
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	...will do....