Drop Outs On Deck at DVinfo.net

Cliff Elliott · January 5th, 2004, 02:38 AM

I have been using a JVC HR-DVS2EU Mini DV / S-VHS deck for two years and have had no problems until of late. I use the deck for primary capture and mastering final edits.

Recently when capturing from tapes either shot on my old Panasonic camera or from my new Canon XM2 I get lots of errors.

As an experiment I then tried capturing from old edited tapes that I new were OK with the same result.

I have cleaned the heads using a Panasonic head cleaning tape.

So I ask the question is it possible the problem lies with dirty tape transport mechanisims?

Any thoughts on this matter would be appreciated.

Thanks, Cliff Elliott

Rob Lohman · January 5th, 2004, 06:13 AM

If the headcleaning did not help anything then it might be time
to send the unit in for repair would be my guess. See if you can
capture a tape fine from the camera that shot it. If so then it
isn't a problem in the cable/computer etc.

Cliff Elliott · January 7th, 2004, 06:31 PM

Rob, it would appear I was not thinking clearly, I don't know why but I did not even consider the idea of capturing from one of my cameras until you mentioned it, and guess what, you were right.

It would appear the deck will have to go in for repairs or adjustment as I captured over two hours of material from the same tapes using my old Panasonic camera without a glitch or error.

Such is life.

Regards, Cliff Elliott

Mark A. Foley · January 13th, 2004, 09:39 AM

What kind of errors are you getting? and have you recently changed computer equipment when this problem started. I too had problems with a JVC deck. I was getting intermittent 1-frame mosaic blocks...and this is what I found out from JVC:

These errors are different from the common DV errors or as some call it pixelization. Those errors have several causes.

It seems to relate to the grounding environment between the deck and the particular computer. This is why so few people have this problem.

We have a modification that can improve it but not eliminate it since the computer itself is likely related somehow to the problem.

The symptoms are twofold:
1. the errors are misshaped data blocks mostly occuring on edges in the image and are usually fo only one or two frames and usually only every couple minutes or so.
2. they occur when 1394 is connected. In otherwords, if you play a tape with the 1394 disconnected and watch carefully you will not see the errors, but when you connect the 1394 and play the same tape, if you watch very carefully you will see the errors go by even if you are just playing back and not digitizing.

This may not have anything to do with you problem...but I thought I would share it with you.....

Cliff Elliott · January 14th, 2004, 01:01 AM

Thanks for the information Mark, I am going to test this to see if this is what is happening.

I havn't changed any of my computer qeuipment for some time as I have a very stable system using an old Canapus DV Raptor card.

But you still may be onto something as I remember when copying from the DV side of the deck to the VHS side I do not remember having any errors.

And the description you gave is very simmilar to what I get, its just the occasional one or two sqaue pxel block for one frame that happens every ten minutes or so.

Again thank you for you input and I will report back on my testing.

Regards, Cliff Elliott.

Cliff Elliott · January 18th, 2004, 05:15 AM

Mark I have performed a number of tests over the last few days and believe I have the same problem you indicated in your post.

This is what I did, I ran a tape of an edit on the deck without being connected via firewire, it did not miss a beat.

I then ran the same tape using the firewire connection and the Canopus capture control on the computer to control play, guess what, I had ocasional dropouts as described before.

I repeated this process with unedited tapes taken straight out of the camera with simmilar results.

On the basis of this I would like to know more about the solutions or workarounds you have come up with.

More importantly I would like to know what JVC can offer in the way of a fix.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks Mark.

Regards, Cliff Elliott

Mark A. Foley · January 18th, 2004, 03:49 PM

Cliff,
I had to send my deck back to a JVC service center to modifications. It appears this problem is cropping up on many JVC components...many different forums all reporting the same thing....

Cliff Elliott · January 21st, 2004, 04:17 AM

Thanks Mark, I will contact my local JVC centre this week and see what response I get.

I love this forum

Regards, Cliff Elliott

G. Randy Brown · January 22nd, 2004, 03:43 PM

Cliff, do you use Sony tapes per chance? If so, do you use Sony "Premium"?
TIA,
Randy

Cliff Elliott · January 22nd, 2004, 04:26 PM

No Randy I use Panasonic tapes, the part number is AY-DVM63PQ
this is the tape I have been using for five years now with the exception to the ocassional TDK tape when I could not get the Panasonic ones.

Why do you ask?

G. Randy Brown · January 22nd, 2004, 04:33 PM

Oh nothing I guess, it's just since you have a JVC deck I was(we in another thread entitled "Glitches, what would you do?") just wondering if Sony tapes might be a factor in the SR version of the deck.
Thanks anyway,
Randy

Yik Kuen · January 26th, 2004, 11:09 PM

My JVC camcorder (GY-DV301) can no longer playback (but recording works fine) properly ever since I used a couple of Sony "Premium" tapes.

Cleaning does not solve the problem either.

Mark A. Foley · January 27th, 2004, 06:07 AM

Randy.
I'm beginning to believe (based on researching other/similair threads) that our problem may be a combination of events/processes that leard to the glitches. However, the main culprit(s) is the JVC deck...followed by the use of Sony tapes...with a possible grounding environment situation thrown in.....

G. Randy Brown · January 27th, 2004, 08:33 AM

Well I guess the first thing I'm trying will be a JVC tape (even though others have reported the problem using other brands...however not a JVC as of yet). I'll let you know the results Mark.
Randy

G. Randy Brown · August 9th, 2004, 01:44 PM

For those interested the following is a copy/paste of an email I just sent Ken Freed at JVC regarding the SR-VS30 problem:

The problem is not with the deck, it is apparently the "defective" wiring (improper ground) of the electrical source.
Prior to buying the deck I bought a "Master Piece Plus" by Kensington which is a protective power supply for computers. It has 3 LED lights on it: "surge protection", "low voltage", and "wiring OK". The "wiring OK has always been red in color while the rest have been green. I never gave it much thought until my recent relocation move. It is now green and lo and behold the deck captures flawlessly!!!
The old house had some outlets that were only 2-prong; although I was using 3-prong in my editing bay I believe the house was not "double grounded". Now I can't tell you how to fix the problem but I can tell you that this is the culprit and I bet your techs can find a solution with this information. Anyway, I'll bet that if you ask anyone having this problem to go down to the hardware store and buy a circuit checker (or whatever they call it) you'll find that there is no double-ground" (or whatever they call it).

Sincerely,
Randy

January 5th, 2004, 02:38 AM	#1
Cliff Elliott Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 71	Drop Outs On Deck I have been using a JVC HR-DVS2EU Mini DV / S-VHS deck for two years and have had no problems until of late. I use the deck for primary capture and mastering final edits. Recently when capturing from tapes either shot on my old Panasonic camera or from my new Canon XM2 I get lots of errors. As an experiment I then tried capturing from old edited tapes that I new were OK with the same result. I have cleaned the heads using a Panasonic head cleaning tape. So I ask the question is it possible the problem lies with dirty tape transport mechanisims? Any thoughts on this matter would be appreciated. Thanks, Cliff Elliott

January 5th, 2004, 06:13 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	If the headcleaning did not help anything then it might be time to send the unit in for repair would be my guess. See if you can capture a tape fine from the camera that shot it. If so then it isn't a problem in the cable/computer etc. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 7th, 2004, 06:31 PM	#3
Cliff Elliott Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 71	You Are Right Rob, it would appear I was not thinking clearly, I don't know why but I did not even consider the idea of capturing from one of my cameras until you mentioned it, and guess what, you were right. It would appear the deck will have to go in for repairs or adjustment as I captured over two hours of material from the same tapes using my old Panasonic camera without a glitch or error. Such is life. Regards, Cliff Elliott

January 14th, 2004, 01:01 AM	#5
Cliff Elliott Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 71	Thank You Thanks for the information Mark, I am going to test this to see if this is what is happening. I havn't changed any of my computer qeuipment for some time as I have a very stable system using an old Canapus DV Raptor card. But you still may be onto something as I remember when copying from the DV side of the deck to the VHS side I do not remember having any errors. And the description you gave is very simmilar to what I get, its just the occasional one or two sqaue pxel block for one frame that happens every ten minutes or so. Again thank you for you input and I will report back on my testing. Regards, Cliff Elliott.

January 18th, 2004, 05:15 AM	#6
Cliff Elliott Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 71	After Testing Mark I have performed a number of tests over the last few days and believe I have the same problem you indicated in your post. This is what I did, I ran a tape of an edit on the deck without being connected via firewire, it did not miss a beat. I then ran the same tape using the firewire connection and the Canopus capture control on the computer to control play, guess what, I had ocasional dropouts as described before. I repeated this process with unedited tapes taken straight out of the camera with simmilar results. On the basis of this I would like to know more about the solutions or workarounds you have come up with. More importantly I would like to know what JVC can offer in the way of a fix. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks Mark. Regards, Cliff Elliott

January 13th, 2004, 09:39 AM	#4
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	What kind of errors are you getting? and have you recently changed computer equipment when this problem started. I too had problems with a JVC deck. I was getting intermittent 1-frame mosaic blocks...and this is what I found out from JVC: These errors are different from the common DV errors or as some call it pixelization. Those errors have several causes. It seems to relate to the grounding environment between the deck and the particular computer. This is why so few people have this problem. We have a modification that can improve it but not eliminate it since the computer itself is likely related somehow to the problem. The symptoms are twofold: 1. the errors are misshaped data blocks mostly occuring on edges in the image and are usually fo only one or two frames and usually only every couple minutes or so. 2. they occur when 1394 is connected. In otherwords, if you play a tape with the 1394 disconnected and watch carefully you will not see the errors, but when you connect the 1394 and play the same tape, if you watch very carefully you will see the errors go by even if you are just playing back and not digitizing. This may not have anything to do with you problem...but I thought I would share it with you.....

January 18th, 2004, 03:49 PM	#7
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Cliff, I had to send my deck back to a JVC service center to modifications. It appears this problem is cropping up on many JVC components...many different forums all reporting the same thing....

January 21st, 2004, 04:17 AM	#8
Cliff Elliott Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 71	Thank you Thanks Mark, I will contact my local JVC centre this week and see what response I get. I love this forum Regards, Cliff Elliott

January 22nd, 2004, 03:43 PM	#9
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Cliff, do you use Sony tapes per chance? If so, do you use Sony "Premium"? TIA, Randy

January 22nd, 2004, 04:26 PM	#10
Cliff Elliott Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 71	Tapes No Randy I use Panasonic tapes, the part number is AY-DVM63PQ this is the tape I have been using for five years now with the exception to the ocassional TDK tape when I could not get the Panasonic ones. Why do you ask?

January 22nd, 2004, 04:33 PM	#11
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Oh nothing I guess, it's just since you have a JVC deck I was(we in another thread entitled "Glitches, what would you do?") just wondering if Sony tapes might be a factor in the SR version of the deck. Thanks anyway, Randy

January 26th, 2004, 11:09 PM	#12
Yik Kuen Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Johor Bahru, Malaysia Posts: 135	My JVC camcorder (GY-DV301) can no longer playback (but recording works fine) properly ever since I used a couple of Sony "Premium" tapes. Cleaning does not solve the problem either.

January 27th, 2004, 06:07 AM	#13
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Randy. I'm beginning to believe (based on researching other/similair threads) that our problem may be a combination of events/processes that leard to the glitches. However, the main culprit(s) is the JVC deck...followed by the use of Sony tapes...with a possible grounding environment situation thrown in.....

January 27th, 2004, 08:33 AM	#14
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Well I guess the first thing I'm trying will be a JVC tape (even though others have reported the problem using other brands...however not a JVC as of yet). I'll let you know the results Mark. Randy

August 9th, 2004, 01:44 PM	#15
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	For those interested the following is a copy/paste of an email I just sent Ken Freed at JVC regarding the SR-VS30 problem: The problem is not with the deck, it is apparently the "defective" wiring (improper ground) of the electrical source. Prior to buying the deck I bought a "Master Piece Plus" by Kensington which is a protective power supply for computers. It has 3 LED lights on it: "surge protection", "low voltage", and "wiring OK". The "wiring OK has always been red in color while the rest have been green. I never gave it much thought until my recent relocation move. It is now green and lo and behold the deck captures flawlessly!!! The old house had some outlets that were only 2-prong; although I was using 3-prong in my editing bay I believe the house was not "double grounded". Now I can't tell you how to fix the problem but I can tell you that this is the culprit and I bet your techs can find a solution with this information. Anyway, I'll bet that if you ask anyone having this problem to go down to the hardware store and buy a circuit checker (or whatever they call it) you'll find that there is no double-ground" (or whatever they call it). Sincerely, Randy