Mini DV Tapes vs Mini HD Tapes

[Jose Luis Gomez]

I agree with the opinions of the people had used different kinds of tapes. In my opinion, as general rules, I propose these:
1.-Use high quality HDV tapes (more expensive of course) if you shoot critical events(historical, documentary, etc.) That's way you can use years after without problem
2.-Use high quality DV tapes (less expensive) if you shoot not important events at all.

3.- In any case don't reuse these tapes. Only once.

With this basic rules, you have the 99,9 % garantie no problems in your recordings.

Thank you very much for this forum.

[John Estcourt]

Well on friday I recorded on to a Tape and got a drop out, a big nasty one second type where the audio just drops away (tried capture several times to verify a drop out).This was a brand new just unwrapped tape!
So as a trial I then reused the tape, taping over the area where there had been a drop out.
I then played the tape back and low and behold a good tape no drop outs!
so is the old used once tape a now good old tape or should I throw it away and try a new tape:) ! thought provoking?

[Tom Hardwick]

You don't say what make or type of tape you were using John, but the reality is that you're buying a highly complex, multi-part assembly for very little money indeed - about a third the price of a sandwich.

So with no human inspection there will be failures straight from the box, and as the first pass generally burnishes off the high spots, the second pass (usually the replay of that tape) is when it's at its best.

I wouldn't throw away that tape, though I might be tempted to use it on a two camera shoot just-in-case. I think you were just unlucky, and the debris that got carried to your spinning heads has now disappeared.

tom.

[John Estcourt]

Tom I agree totally with you, the point I was trying to make was that the so called new tape isnt always the best and the tape is now in my camera box ready for use confident that its a good one, but for a multi camera shoot or test footage.
For critical work I still use the sonyHDV masters. FYI the tape was a sony premium, I use them all the time.
cheers john

[Lynne Whelden]

I've used the Sony DVM63 (HD) tape for one particular project and I haven't been impressed. Seems like the same amount of drop-out occurs as with the cheaper Sony miniDV tapes. I can only hope that maybe there's a slight difference in noise levels but who's to say?

[Brian Boyko]

I know this is going to come with a bunch of arguments, but I really suggest spending the money on a hard-drive based recorder.

This is the problem with tape and HD media. Dropouts are common as hell - everyone's experienced at least one, and they always cost time and money - if the scene isn't completely ruined by them.

I understand that tapes are great for long term storage and backup. But I would never, every consider going back to using tape for my primary video recording solution. Dropouts are just too... damn... common.

[John Estcourt]

Brian, I agree but the problem is the cost of getting two firestores, flash based drives.
I now record to pc when filming single camera ice skating events because I cant afford a drop out, but weddings etc thats just not practical.
The sony flash card recorder looks good but again buying two along with the extra batteries and media makes it a non starter.
So for jobs where I can only use tape I just buy the best tape stock and use two cameras.
Im also starting to believe that once a tape has been used and you know its a good one, then use it again.
cheers john

[Brian Boyko]

Originally Posted by John Estcourt

Brian, I agree but the problem is the cost of getting two firestores, flash based drives.
I now record to pc when filming single camera ice skating events because I cant afford a drop out, but weddings etc thats just not practical.
The sony flash card recorder looks good but again buying two along with the extra batteries and media makes it a non starter.
So for jobs where I can only use tape I just buy the best tape stock and use two cameras.
Im also starting to believe that once a tape has been used and you know its a good one, then use it again.
cheers john

You paid how much for the cameras? The $2000 for two Firestores shouldn't be that much in comparison.

I put off buying an XH-A1 when given the oppertunity simply because Canon still has the damn thing recording to tape.

[John Estcourt]

Originally Posted by Brian Boyko

You paid how much for the cameras? The $2000 for two Firestores shouldn't be that much in comparison.

I put off buying an XH-A1 when given the oppertunity simply because Canon still has the damn thing recording to tape.

Slightly more over here Im afraid... plus enough batteries for two.
4180 | Focus Enhancements Firestore FS-C (FSC) - 60GB DTE HDD recorder + mounting kit for Canon HDV Camcorders

Thats a whole lot of sony master tapes.
time I got my moneys worth it will be time to upgrade cameras( possibly)

However having recorded direct to hard drive before ( spare pc, cost £200) the benefits are staggering so yes the canons are the last hdv tape cameras i will buy.

[Andy Tejral]

Originally Posted by John Estcourt

Well on friday I recorded on to a Tape and got a drop out, a big nasty one second type where the audio just drops away (tried capture several times to verify a drop out).This was a brand new just unwrapped tape!
So as a trial I then reused the tape, taping over the area where there had been a drop out.
I then played the tape back and low and behold a good tape no drop outs!
so is the old used once tape a now good old tape or should I throw it away and try a new tape:) ! thought provoking?

This is a good point: not all dropouts are the same. There are record dropouts and playback dropouts.

Say a piece of shmutz gets on the tape as you record. That segment of tape will not get recorded--a record dropout. No amount of playing it back will regain that segment of information. But rerecording that same tape may result in a good recording a second time as the shmutz may have moved (likely to another spot on the tape).

Say a piece of magnetic material is missing from a section of tape. Again, a record dropout and no amount of replaying it will find that material.

Now, say the tape was pristine during record. A piece of shmutz gets on the tape during playback. Replaying the tape may remove the shmutz and allow sucessful playback. However, it is quite likely that the shmutz might get moved somewhere else (as above).

Or, say a piece of material flakes off during playback: this may as well be a record dropout--no amount of replaying will regain this information.

[Adam Gold]

Originally Posted by Lynne Whelden

I can only hope that maybe there's a slight difference in noise levels but who's to say?

It's digital, so that is not possible. The data is either there or it isn't -- it's all 1s and 0s. "Better" S/N ratio is an artifact of analog tapes.

[David B. Sanders]

I just bought a XHA1s and got both SD and HD tapes for it. But I recently read that to shoot HD you do not need HD miniDV tapes. You can use the standard miniDV tapes. The HD tapes are supposed to give fewer drop-outs than the standard tapes. With DV-AVI a drop out would be hardly noticed, but as HDV MPEG2 is a compressed format and the picture relies on information in a number of frames any drop-outs can give a second or so of bad video. But if you do not want to risk problems with dropouts, then use HD miniDV tapes.

Sound correct?

[Marcel D. Van Someren]

yes, and more importantly, once you pick a brand, stick with it. Changing brands can cause clogged heads. If you must change brands, run a cleaning tape before the change.

[Jacques E. Bouchard]

The format is digital, not analog. It's a series of ones and zeroes. Marketing hype and misinformation aside, a good-quality DV tape will do just as wel as a "special" HDV tape.


J.

[Richard Gooderick]

There are so many threads on this subject already.