2 quick horror stories using Panasonic tape

Dave Uriarte · July 9th, 2008, 02:28 PM

Just throwing my 2 cents in here: I use the Panasonic Advanced Master Quality tape with my XH A1 cam. Never had an issue, ever. Of course I bought the camera brand new and it has never seen any other type of tape. Prolly been through 20-30 Panny AMQ tapes.

David Beisner · July 14th, 2008, 06:57 AM

I work at a college where students check out our cameras and provide their own tapes. I was somewhat concerned about the whole wet/dry issue and whether or not we needed to specify what tapes they could use. After some research, I discovered that the wet/dry issue is no longer an issue--advances in technology have virtually eliminated the problems from mixing tapes. So we just let our students use whatever tapes they like. That said, it is usually best to find one kind of tape you like and stick with it.

Richard Alvarez · July 14th, 2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Beisner

After some research, I discovered that the wet/dry issue is no longer an issue--advances in technology have virtually eliminated the problems from mixing tapes. .

Care to share your research? A white paper from a manufacturer perhaps? Just curious. Cause I'm not hearing that from Reps I talk to.

Tsu Terao · July 14th, 2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

Care to share your research? A white paper from a manufacturer perhaps? Just curious. Cause I'm not hearing that from Reps I talk to.

Care to share what the Reps have told you?

Bill Pryor · July 14th, 2008, 09:28 AM

I started out using Panasonic AMQ tapes when I got the XH A1 and had no problems at all. Then suddenly on a shoot with two XH A1s, we had 5 tapes out of a box of ten with serious dropouts. Then I had no problems for a few tapes, and suddenly another major bunch of dropouts.

I switched to Sony PHDVM63 tapes, at nearly twice the price, and have had no problems at all.

Richard Alvarez · July 14th, 2008, 10:29 AM

I have shared in numerous threads. But I'll repeat the main comment given me by TWO Canon reps on the phone. "Don't use Sony Tapes, they're wet. Use only dry tapes". Both comments were made regarding servicing an XL2 for problems. Comments were made about two years ago.

This is similar to comments others have reported getting 'conflicting' statements from manufacturers and reps. Is it 'reliable'? Thats why there are numerous conflicting threads regarding this. I started one saying "Where is ACTUAL listing of which tapes are wet and which are dry? " And never got a definitive answer.

Which is why when someone says they've done research, and come up with an answer, I'd LOVE to see it.

Bill Pryor · July 14th, 2008, 11:47 AM

I'd bet money that if you can find a definite answer you'll find that the tapes Canon sells are made by Sony.

Adrian J. Hare · July 27th, 2008, 06:27 AM

Here is One stupid question, but what do you all mean by "Drop Outs" ?

Now why I'm asking is because I followed the advice of Panasonic tapes and have used the AMQ's for two years and this last year I noticed that I would have spots in taping that would just go plain black screen and then it would start playing what I recorded. This happened often this past spring with these tapes , so I wondered if this is what you mean by drop outs....

Bill Busby · July 27th, 2008, 06:38 AM

No idea what that could be. A dropout in HDV is basically a freeze frame (not black), no audio as well, that lasts a minimum of 15 frames. On average it can be just a little over a second in my experiences.

Jim Andrada · July 28th, 2008, 06:56 PM

I'll be at a media and drive technology conference in a couple of weeks. Panasonic/Sony etc usually send a few tape media researchers and engineers each, as do Maxell, Fuji. Imation, etc.

Conference is related to tapes (and disks etc) used in the information storage industry, not video, but I'll see if anyone there has specific experience with the DV tape end of the business and ask them.

Steve Oakley · August 5th, 2008, 11:32 AM

I've been using PQ tapes for years without any problems. one drop out per tape isn't that uncommon. if you guys are complaining about that, you never shot beta Sp or... 3/4 :(

AMQ's have been better then PQ's for HDV. HDV is much more picky then DV. drop outs aren't just total loss of picture or sound, they are little colored blocks of hash in the image. sometimes just for a frame, sometimes worse.

FWIW, it appears that at least some JVC tape is made by maxell.

last week I ran some consumer grade Fuji tape thru the camera as it was supplied to me. first tape has a TC break or two, the rest went fine. I guess the camera had to adapt.

in the case of the original poster losing the first tape, sounds like a head clog started in the beginning and just ran thru the tape. hard to say if the heads where already clogged when that tape went in so its hard to prove anything there. this could of happened with almost any tape.

as for sony, I shot some of their consumer tapes in an emergency, and they were totally loaded with drop outs, a real nightmare. even their more expensive tapes I've not been happy with.

bottom line is to just quit shooting tape, and the problem solves itself. I plan to leave tape sometime next year.

John Estcourt · August 20th, 2008, 05:33 PM

just used 30 sony premium dv tapes dvm60pr3 £1.80 / tape . not one drop out..which just goes to show the most expensive isnt always the best.

Tobin Strickland · August 21st, 2008, 02:52 PM

Same story as start of thread.

I even pre captured this particular tape to ascertain if it had bad spots on it for drop outs. It worked fine twice before the shoot (no drops)...seemed to shoot fine on the shoot (time code all the way to the end)...now it's not capturing and getting stuck.

Some recovery:
I have tried switching the tape to a different cassette (only for nimble fingered - not for weak hearts) and that has allowed me to recover some footage. Appears to be the cassette and not the tape.

I will be trying Sony after this. This is starting to cost me money and reputation....I take it this doesn't happen with direct digital recording to hard drives. ?????

Tobin Strickland · August 21st, 2008, 04:44 PM

My previous post stated that I switched the cassette. I have made one additional change to the cassette, if you open the cassette, between the rolls on one half of the classette "clam shell" there is a small plastic piece that is supposed to allow the reals to move only when inside the camera...I removed it and recaptured the tape...guess what ...almost all the footage was there and almost no dropped frames...there were some; apparently this real stop went bad at near the end of the tape causing the tape to drag and hence causing dropped frames. Additionally when I tried to capture the tape, this 'real stop' was still bad and causing additional problems on capture.

I am either going to switch brands or start removing these 'real stops'.

Does anyone know a contact at panasonic that I could tell this to?

July 9th, 2008, 02:28 PM	#16
Dave Uriarte Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: University Place, WA Posts: 106	Panny AMQ and the XH A1 Just throwing my 2 cents in here: I use the Panasonic Advanced Master Quality tape with my XH A1 cam. Never had an issue, ever. Of course I bought the camera brand new and it has never seen any other type of tape. Prolly been through 20-30 Panny AMQ tapes.

July 14th, 2008, 06:57 AM	#17
David Beisner Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dayton, TN (USA) Posts: 219	I work at a college where students check out our cameras and provide their own tapes. I was somewhat concerned about the whole wet/dry issue and whether or not we needed to specify what tapes they could use. After some research, I discovered that the wet/dry issue is no longer an issue--advances in technology have virtually eliminated the problems from mixing tapes. So we just let our students use whatever tapes they like. That said, it is usually best to find one kind of tape you like and stick with it. __________________ David Beisner Media Specialist, Bryan College, Dayton, TN -- www.bryan.edu

August 21st, 2008, 02:52 PM	#28
Tobin Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 86	This is my 2nd experience with Pana AMQ Drops Same story as start of thread. I even pre captured this particular tape to ascertain if it had bad spots on it for drop outs. It worked fine twice before the shoot (no drops)...seemed to shoot fine on the shoot (time code all the way to the end)...now it's not capturing and getting stuck. Some recovery: I have tried switching the tape to a different cassette (only for nimble fingered - not for weak hearts) and that has allowed me to recover some footage. Appears to be the cassette and not the tape. I will be trying Sony after this. This is starting to cost me money and reputation....I take it this doesn't happen with direct digital recording to hard drives. ?????

August 21st, 2008, 04:44 PM	#29
Tobin Strickland Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 86	Update to Dropped frames My previous post stated that I switched the cassette. I have made one additional change to the cassette, if you open the cassette, between the rolls on one half of the classette "clam shell" there is a small plastic piece that is supposed to allow the reals to move only when inside the camera...I removed it and recaptured the tape...guess what ...almost all the footage was there and almost no dropped frames...there were some; apparently this real stop went bad at near the end of the tape causing the tape to drag and hence causing dropped frames. Additionally when I tried to capture the tape, this 'real stop' was still bad and causing additional problems on capture. I am either going to switch brands or start removing these 'real stops'. Does anyone know a contact at panasonic that I could tell this to?

July 14th, 2008, 09:28 AM	#20
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I started out using Panasonic AMQ tapes when I got the XH A1 and had no problems at all. Then suddenly on a shoot with two XH A1s, we had 5 tapes out of a box of ten with serious dropouts. Then I had no problems for a few tapes, and suddenly another major bunch of dropouts. I switched to Sony PHDVM63 tapes, at nearly twice the price, and have had no problems at all.

July 14th, 2008, 10:29 AM	#21
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I have shared in numerous threads. But I'll repeat the main comment given me by TWO Canon reps on the phone. "Don't use Sony Tapes, they're wet. Use only dry tapes". Both comments were made regarding servicing an XL2 for problems. Comments were made about two years ago. This is similar to comments others have reported getting 'conflicting' statements from manufacturers and reps. Is it 'reliable'? Thats why there are numerous conflicting threads regarding this. I started one saying "Where is ACTUAL listing of which tapes are wet and which are dry? " And never got a definitive answer. Which is why when someone says they've done research, and come up with an answer, I'd LOVE to see it.

July 14th, 2008, 11:47 AM	#22
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I'd bet money that if you can find a definite answer you'll find that the tapes Canon sells are made by Sony.

July 27th, 2008, 06:27 AM	#23
Adrian J. Hare Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Barrie, Ontario Posts: 62	Here is One stupid question, but what do you all mean by "Drop Outs" ? Now why I'm asking is because I followed the advice of Panasonic tapes and have used the AMQ's for two years and this last year I noticed that I would have spots in taping that would just go plain black screen and then it would start playing what I recorded. This happened often this past spring with these tapes , so I wondered if this is what you mean by drop outs....

July 27th, 2008, 06:38 AM	#24
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	No idea what that could be. A dropout in HDV is basically a freeze frame (not black), no audio as well, that lasts a minimum of 15 frames. On average it can be just a little over a second in my experiences.

July 28th, 2008, 06:56 PM	#25
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	I'll be at a media and drive technology conference in a couple of weeks. Panasonic/Sony etc usually send a few tape media researchers and engineers each, as do Maxell, Fuji. Imation, etc. Conference is related to tapes (and disks etc) used in the information storage industry, not video, but I'll see if anyone there has specific experience with the DV tape end of the business and ask them.

August 5th, 2008, 11:32 AM	#26
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	I've been using PQ tapes for years without any problems. one drop out per tape isn't that uncommon. if you guys are complaining about that, you never shot beta Sp or... 3/4 :( AMQ's have been better then PQ's for HDV. HDV is much more picky then DV. drop outs aren't just total loss of picture or sound, they are little colored blocks of hash in the image. sometimes just for a frame, sometimes worse. FWIW, it appears that at least some JVC tape is made by maxell. last week I ran some consumer grade Fuji tape thru the camera as it was supplied to me. first tape has a TC break or two, the rest went fine. I guess the camera had to adapt. in the case of the original poster losing the first tape, sounds like a head clog started in the beginning and just ran thru the tape. hard to say if the heads where already clogged when that tape went in so its hard to prove anything there. this could of happened with almost any tape. as for sony, I shot some of their consumer tapes in an emergency, and they were totally loaded with drop outs, a real nightmare. even their more expensive tapes I've not been happy with. bottom line is to just quit shooting tape, and the problem solves itself. I plan to leave tape sometime next year.

August 20th, 2008, 05:33 PM	#27
John Estcourt Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Scotland, Ayr www.amour weddingvideos.co.uk Posts: 305	just used 30 sony premium dv tapes dvm60pr3 £1.80 / tape . not one drop out..which just goes to show the most expensive isnt always the best.