Mini DV Decks

[Aaron Frick]

From what I understand mindv, dvcam and dvcpro use the same compression ratio. Dvcpro50 is a better ratio. I shoot on minidv with an xl1 and master finished projects to dvcam because it has a higher tape speed making is a little more stable and less prone to drop outs. There is no difference however in the image quality of mindv and dvcam, it just depends on your camera head.

No, DVCPro is definitely 4.1:1 compression ratio. The color sampl;ing is the same, however - a disappointing 4:1:1 color bit-sample rate. (disappointing at least for someone who wants to transfer shorts shot on video to film).

Derrick

[Aaron Frick]

Panasonic's website lists dvcpro as 5:1 and dvcpro50 as 3:3:1

[Chris Hurd]

That's right. Check Adam Wilt's DV FAQ at www.adamwilt.com.

DVCPro50 is a different type of DV standard called DV50. It refers to a bandwidth of 50mbs, as opposed to DV, DVCAM and DVCPro which are all known as DV25 formats, with a bandwidth of 25mbs.

Again, the Adam Wilt DV FAQ is more or less the definitive explanation in layman's terms of the different digital video formats.

[Aaron Frick]

Thanks Chris,

Adam's is by far the best explanation I have found on the digital formats.

I don't know - I was looking at Scott Billups' book and website (he invented some of the technology that is standard in DV cameras today)
He shows the compression ratios for the following formats:

MiniDV 5:1
DVCPro 4.1:1
DVCPro-50 3.3:1
Digital Beta 2:1
D-1 No compression
DVCPro-HD 6.7:1
HD-Cam/24P (simply listed as low)
D-5 No Compression

He goes into more detail about the different formats - this is taken from the chart. The book has a 2000 copyright so sould be fairly current. (Although he does state that specifications - like prices - change constantly)

It doesn't matter too much, the difference isn't that significant

[Aaron Frick]

As you say it doesn't matter too much. I was looking at the specs on several minidv cameras and they all seem to show similar things such as this jvc camera that list the following info for minidv recording:

Video:

Video signal recording format: 8bit, 13.5 MHz, 4:1:1 (NTSC)/4:2:0 (PAL) component recording

Could you list the URL for Scott Billup's website, I would be interested in giving it a look over.

Billups website is http://www.pixelmonger.com
His book is "Digital Moviemaking: A Butt-Kicking, Pixel Twisting Vision of the Digital Future and How to Make Your Next Movie on Your Credit Card"

most people just refer to it as "Digital Moviemaking" for some strange reason. : )

D. Nelson

[Bill Ravens]

Awhile back Vic Owen asked for an update on dropouts with a SONY DCR-20. To date, I haven't experienced any dropouts. The DSR20 seems to work flawlessly, even in transcoding back to DVCAM from DV, which I've been using for mastering. If you can stomach the price, this is a nice solution. I've also been pre-mastering my DV tapes with timecode info using this deck. Transport mechanism response is MUCH quicker than the old DV cam I was using before. I'm running the "monitor" output to my ATi Radeon 8500DV input box and getting a nice monitor/preview window on my computer.

[Vic Owen]

Thanks for remembering! I'm still pondering the purchase of either the DSR-11 or DSR-20. Both appear to be fine devices. I holding off until I see what kind of reliability I get from my Firestore. I just sent it in for a firmware upgrade, and I hope, among other things, it fixes its tendency to record empty files on the FW drive. Hopefully, my confidence level will go up to the point I don't feel the need for a backup tape machine when shooting.

[John Locke]

I'd really like to get the DSR-20...but it looks like I'll get the DSR-11 instead because of the price difference.

There's one bit of information I'm wondering about that I can't find, though...is it "free voltage"? (100-240...referring to the DC plug adapter that comes with it)

[Incidentally...for those of you who are also interested in the DSR-11, I found a great PDF brochure and have put it on my domain in case anyone wants to download it. Just point your browser to http://zchildress.com/dsr11.pdf ]

[Scott Shuster]

I just use whatever old camera I've upgraded from. That used to be a TRV-9...At the moment that's a TRV-20. We shoot with a VX2000. When I want something new...that VX2000 will become our deck. So far so good!

[ja135321]

I dont know if this is a deck more than what they advertise it as a video walkman. I have it and it works great for my needs. You can connect the XL1s to it and have a secondary recording device thru firewire. And you can use it as an lcd monitor as it has a 4 inch lcd.

[Ian Austen]

Sony has replaced the DSR 20 with the DSR 25, it now does Pal as well
"http://bpgprod.sel.sony.com/bpcnav/app/99999/16/113/65183.99999.print.BPC.html?reload=1"

[Ken McDaniel]

I'm waiting for Sony's release of the new DSR-25 deck in June. Aimed specifically for the NLE market, it's a follow-on product to the DSR-20, is switchable between PAL/NTSC, has timecode display, phone jack, audio levels, a 2-inch LCD for monitoring picture content, plays AND records on miniDV, full-size DV, and DVCAM. List price is $4100, so street price should be about $3600. You can store up to 270 minutes on a full-size DV cassette (184 on DVCAM), plus these tapes are more robust than a miniDV cassette. Another big advantage of using a deck is in black-striping tapes (laying down continuous timecode before recording video on the tape, kind of like formatting a computer disk), thus saving even more camcorder wear and tear. Here's a link to Sony's description of the DSR-25:

http://bpgprod.sel.sony.com/bpcnav/app/99999/16/113/65183.99999.product.BPC.html