My HM600 arrived =) at DVinfo.net

Jody Arnott · January 20th, 2013, 08:32 PM

Hey guys,

I got my HM600 today. I haven't had much time with it yet so I won't give my thoughts for a day or two, but if anyone has any specific questions or things you want to know, I'll do my best to answer.

Cheers,
Jody

Shaun Roemich · January 20th, 2013, 09:15 PM

The beta I saw at NAB in April 2012 tended to lose focus temporarily on medium to fast zooms, in or out, indicating that the flange back adjustment wasn't keeping up. Wondering if that has been resolved in the production version.

Manual focus, zoomed in fully to tack-up focus, pulled back and it would "flutter" in and out of focus before locking... same going back in.

Curious to hear ALL your thoughts on the camera.

Jody Arnott · January 20th, 2013, 09:41 PM

Just for a laugh, this is what just happened when I took the camera outside for the first time:

No damage.. I guess they call it a "dead cat" for a reason :P

Shaun Roemich · January 20th, 2013, 10:00 PM

Brilliant!

Phill Pendleton · January 21st, 2013, 12:49 AM

Ha! Dog got the dead cat! Thx for a laugh

Mike Beckett · January 21st, 2013, 02:46 AM

The HM600 shown at NAB was a rush job so there'd be something to show. I'm not sure if it was a hardware or a firmware fix.

Jody:
My question for you is.... when will mine arrive! Waiting for my dealer to get a JVC order is like a kid waiting for Christmas to come. Delivery was supposed to be on Friday, but the weather here

Also re. the deadcat, I'd really strongly recommend something like a Rycote softie, with shorter, neater fur. Anything with straggy fur will at some point cause problems in the corner of the picture. But you probably know that.

I nearly lost a Rode deadcat once... to a cat on location somewhere. It got the claw in, but luckily the deadcat was a tight fit and it didn't come off. I wish I'd kept the raw footage!

Jody Arnott · January 21st, 2013, 03:06 AM

Right, please someone tell me I'm missing something here.

This is the HM600 in a dimly lit room, 18db gain, lens wide open. This is the nosiest image I've ever seen. My Canon XA10 does 10x better at 30db gain. HD Warrior hailed this camera as extremely noise free in low light.

So what am I missing?

(watch at 1080p to really see it)

Mike Beckett · January 21st, 2013, 03:50 AM

The HM600 is supposed to have two modes, one for "ideal lighting" and one for "low lighting". Which one were you using? Obviously as I'm still waiting for mine, I can't tell how that works... What is your shutter speed? Are you at wide angle or telephoto?

I have a feeling that 18dB would be grainy no matter what. Philip Johnston's tests were only at 3 or 6dB, and apparently cleaner than the Canon XF300.

When you say "dimly lit room" - what is the light source, exactly? A single 60w bulb?

Jody Arnott · January 21st, 2013, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Beckett

The HM600 is supposed to have two modes, one for "ideal lighting" and one for "low lighting". Which one were you using? Obviously as I'm still waiting for mine, I can't tell how that works... What is your shutter speed? Are you at wide angle or telephoto?

I have a feeling that 18dB would be grainy no matter what. Philip Johnston's tests were only at 3 or 6dB, and apparently cleaner than the Canon XF300.

When you say "dimly lit room" - what is the light source, exactly? A single 60w bulb?

Wide angle. Single 60w bulb. Low light mode not activated.

Going to experiment with different shutter speeds now.

Maybe my expectations were too high. I'm going to do some more experimenting before I jump to any further conclusions.

Mike Beckett · January 21st, 2013, 04:26 AM

I'd be interested to see what the results are for the low light mode... I'm assuming it makes a difference!

Noa Put · January 21st, 2013, 04:41 AM

In lolux mode the camera can give you 30 or 36db of gain acc to the manual and probably it will default to 1/25th shutter as well but if 18db already looks this bad? I would be surprised that the camera would be cleaner at those high gains.
A stupid question but did you not have a nd filter on and was there no auto gain (agc) enabled?

Jody Arnott · January 21st, 2013, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

In lolux mode the camera can give you 30 or 36db of gain acc to the manual and probably it will default to 1/25th shutter as well but if 18db already looks this bad? I would be surprised that the camera would be cleaner at those high gains.
A stupid question but did you not have a nd filter on and was there no auto gain (agc) enabled?

No, I double checked the ND filter was off. And I had the gain set manually. Even at 6dB it's noisy in my opinion.

Although the room was extremely dimly lit.

I've got a low light test video in the works, just editing it up.

Noa Put · January 21st, 2013, 05:14 AM

ok, just asking because it's a mistake I have seen made before, there are camera's where you can have the gain set at manual but if the agc is enabled it will override the manual settings. How does the camera compare to your xa10 if you match exposure in a dark room, does the xa10 stay much cleaner?

Jody Arnott · January 21st, 2013, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

ok, just asking because it's a mistake I have seen made before, there are camera's where you can have the gain set at manual but if the agc is enabled it will override the manual settings. How does the camera compare to your xa10 if you match exposure in a dark room, does the xa10 stay much cleaner?

Here's a really quick low light test between the XA10 and HM600. The street is lit with only 1 light, so it's a pretty tough test. Note I didn't include the XA10 @ 0dB because nothing could be seen.

Both cameras were set to 1/25 shutter, wide open.

I know the cameras probably aren't comparable, 1 chip vs 3, but they're all I have :P

The HM600 is clearly more sensitive, but the image looks terrible at high dB. I'd never use that if it was going to a client. 6dB is usable though.

Honestly I think I prefer the XA10 for low light. You can't see as much, but at least the image isn't noisy.

Noa Put · January 21st, 2013, 05:25 AM

You cannot compare both camera gainwise because of the larger 3cmos sensor the jvc has, the jvc will always be much more sensitive, you should try to match exposure which could mean 18db on the jvc and 30db on the xa-10 and then compare noise.
After seeing this footage I do not understand why jvc advertises the camera's low lux mode as it looks as useless as my xha1 at max gain.

January 20th, 2013, 08:32 PM	#1
Jody Arnott Major Player Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand Posts: 747	My HM600 arrived =) Hey guys, I got my HM600 today. I haven't had much time with it yet so I won't give my thoughts for a day or two, but if anyone has any specific questions or things you want to know, I'll do my best to answer. Cheers, Jody

January 20th, 2013, 09:15 PM	#2
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Re: My HM600 arrived =) The beta I saw at NAB in April 2012 tended to lose focus temporarily on medium to fast zooms, in or out, indicating that the flange back adjustment wasn't keeping up. Wondering if that has been resolved in the production version. Manual focus, zoomed in fully to tack-up focus, pulled back and it would "flutter" in and out of focus before locking... same going back in. Curious to hear ALL your thoughts on the camera. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

January 20th, 2013, 09:41 PM	#3
Jody Arnott Major Player Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand Posts: 747	Re: My HM600 arrived =) Just for a laugh, this is what just happened when I took the camera outside for the first time: JVC HM600 Failed First Test - YouTube No damage.. I guess they call it a "dead cat" for a reason :P

January 20th, 2013, 10:00 PM	#4
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Re: My HM600 arrived =) Brilliant! __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

January 21st, 2013, 12:49 AM	#5
Phill Pendleton Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Australia NSW Posts: 71	Re: My HM600 arrived =) Ha! Dog got the dead cat! Thx for a laugh

January 21st, 2013, 02:46 AM	#6
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: My HM600 arrived =) The HM600 shown at NAB was a rush job so there'd be something to show. I'm not sure if it was a hardware or a firmware fix. Jody: My question for you is.... when will mine arrive! Waiting for my dealer to get a JVC order is like a kid waiting for Christmas to come. Delivery was supposed to be on Friday, but the weather here Also re. the deadcat, I'd really strongly recommend something like a Rycote softie, with shorter, neater fur. Anything with straggy fur will at some point cause problems in the corner of the picture. But you probably know that. I nearly lost a Rode deadcat once... to a cat on location somewhere. It got the claw in, but luckily the deadcat was a tight fit and it didn't come off. I wish I'd kept the raw footage!

January 21st, 2013, 03:06 AM	#7
Jody Arnott Major Player Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand Posts: 747	Re: My HM600 arrived =) Right, please someone tell me I'm missing something here. This is the HM600 in a dimly lit room, 18db gain, lens wide open. This is the nosiest image I've ever seen. My Canon XA10 does 10x better at 30db gain. HD Warrior hailed this camera as extremely noise free in low light. So what am I missing? (watch at 1080p to really see it) 344G0005 01 crap - YouTube

January 21st, 2013, 03:50 AM	#8
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: My HM600 arrived =) The HM600 is supposed to have two modes, one for "ideal lighting" and one for "low lighting". Which one were you using? Obviously as I'm still waiting for mine, I can't tell how that works... What is your shutter speed? Are you at wide angle or telephoto? I have a feeling that 18dB would be grainy no matter what. Philip Johnston's tests were only at 3 or 6dB, and apparently cleaner than the Canon XF300. When you say "dimly lit room" - what is the light source, exactly? A single 60w bulb?

January 21st, 2013, 04:26 AM	#10
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: My HM600 arrived =) I'd be interested to see what the results are for the low light mode... I'm assuming it makes a difference!

January 21st, 2013, 04:41 AM	#11
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: My HM600 arrived =) In lolux mode the camera can give you 30 or 36db of gain acc to the manual and probably it will default to 1/25th shutter as well but if 18db already looks this bad? I would be surprised that the camera would be cleaner at those high gains. A stupid question but did you not have a nd filter on and was there no auto gain (agc) enabled?

January 21st, 2013, 05:14 AM	#13
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: My HM600 arrived =) ok, just asking because it's a mistake I have seen made before, there are camera's where you can have the gain set at manual but if the agc is enabled it will override the manual settings. How does the camera compare to your xa10 if you match exposure in a dark room, does the xa10 stay much cleaner?

January 21st, 2013, 05:25 AM	#15
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: My HM600 arrived =) You cannot compare both camera gainwise because of the larger 3cmos sensor the jvc has, the jvc will always be much more sensitive, you should try to match exposure which could mean 18db on the jvc and 30db on the xa-10 and then compare noise. After seeing this footage I do not understand why jvc advertises the camera's low lux mode as it looks as useless as my xha1 at max gain.