HM700 shoot i or P at DVinfo.net

George Kilroy · July 25th, 2012, 10:19 AM

I shoot mainly general type footage - weddings etc. so there is normal walking about movement.

Until recently I shot at 720x50P but now I have other cameras that I want to match to that shoot only 1080x50i
If you are using this camera which do you find is the best best format for producing a PAL DVD 1080x50i or 1080x25P.
When I set it to 1080x25P there is a pronounced stuttering on movement which I never saw at 720x50P. Is that normal or do I have a problem?

Joachim Claus · July 25th, 2012, 10:36 AM

What you see as stuttering with 1080/25P is very normal. The 25 fps have a cine like view, i.e., movements are chopped up. You may use either 720P50 (gives smooth movements) or 1080i/50 which also gives smoth movements with the drawback of interlace artefacts (comb structure at vertical lines when moving).
Joachim

Chris Harding · July 25th, 2012, 06:22 PM

Hey George

My Panasonics are much the same...if you just turn on the camera set on 25P and you a pan you will see the EVF image stutter too. Our problem with PAL is that we lose 5 frames compared to the USA people and at 30FPS the stuuter is a lot less noticeable. Seriously I have always shot at 1080 50i and have had no issues at all..at least if the groom suddenly makes a run for the exit at 1080 50i the footage will be smooth. I have yet to see any huge image quality difference as like yourself I'm mainly supplying on DVD. If you are doing slomo stuff then 720 50P is a good idea but that is the only time I use it!!

I would rather just shoot 1080 50i and keep it like that

Chris

George Kilroy · July 26th, 2012, 06:34 AM

Hi Chris, I know we've spoken on this topic before when I was shooting 720P. I've switched to 1080i because the Cx550s that I use as support cams only shoot that way so I wanted to try and stay as consistent as I can, and now I'm throwing the GoPro's 1080P into the mix. I don't know about your Panni's but the JVC only shoots 1080P at 25, no 50 option.

It seems to me that 'P' footage integrates into an 'i' timeline better than the other way round. The footage from the locked-down Go-Pro looks stable on the interlaced timeline but when I use shots from when I clamped it to my bike (lots of movement) the footage is very choppy, as Joachim describes, so I guess that the Hero is shooting at 25P f/s not 50.

Chris Harding · July 26th, 2012, 07:51 AM

Hi George

I have the same issue!! I can shoot 1080 25P or 24P but not 50P so footage when you pan is jerky. Yes I too have found that in Sony Vegas with de-interlacing set to blend fields my GoPro seems to fit in perfectly with the 180 50i with no problems.

I did a wedding at 1080 25P and there was no skewing or stutter BUT I got pixellation on the bride's face so I went back to 1080 50i.....IMHO it's the safest option for everything even if it doesn't give you the "cinematic look" ... !

I rarely have time to experiment with different modes but I did do a test with all 6 of my camera modes filming the same thing and seriously after putting it to a DVD in random order, I couldn't tell any differences on a 42" TV so I figured the bride certainly wouldn't either.

Never had any issues with 50i in the last 10 years so who am I to argue with something that works and hasn't given me any issues..besides my weddings are documentary style so I'm also happy with the "video look"

Chris

George Kilroy · July 26th, 2012, 08:44 AM

Chris.

I'm not familiar with Sony Vegas. When you say your project is set to deinterlace and blend fields is that a preset? In Premier the presets are either 50i or 50P, if I want to deinterlace I have to appy it to every clip individually and that causes problems with some of the filters. I use a 50i setting and export everything interlaced to send to Encore for DVD. They look okay on a large screen TV, the problem I have is that mpeg looks rubbish when played as an mpeg on computer or media player. When I exported a progressive mpeg for DVD it was terrible on a TV screen, looked like a field order mismatch.

Looks like I need to make two versions now then, a deinterlaced Prog for USB and an interlaced for DVD.

Do you have a way of exporting just one file to cover both types of playback?

Chris Harding · July 26th, 2012, 06:48 PM

Hi George

With your NLE I have no idea. With Sony Vegas what happens is that the interlacing gets stripped at the edit stage. Once you have completed your edits and tweaks you then render the timeline out to the correct file type and correct template..If I'm making a DVD it goes to MPEG2 which is 720 x 576 16:9 widescreen and is interlaced with Lower Field first. If I'm doing a web video, then I render the same timeline to MP4 files which are 1280x720 and that is progressive.

Just also bear in mind that most media players within computers nowdays will handle interlaced DVD footage very well and will look perfect. WMP that comes with Win 7 on my machines will play a commercial DVD in the drive and handles the interlaced footage automatically!!

Chris

George Kilroy · July 27th, 2012, 01:46 AM

Hi Chris.

I'm still learning. I've discovered that outputting from Premiere as Progressive does the deinterlacing just as your Vegas does. I hadn't know that, I thought that setting was for use when working with footage which had been shot Progressive.

Up until recently I've had two work flows.
For my commercial business work I only use the JVC cameras shooting 720P and output is almost always now only for computer/internet - usually flv or wmv. so interlacing was not an issue
For weddings and work where I use multiple cams I've standardised to 1080i as that's the common format across the range of cameras I use. That's been fine when out putting to DVD as the interlacing stays in place.

My problem arose when I want to offer the same output on both DVD and computer media file. Whilst newer comps deal with interlacing I can never be certain that the customers have a new machine or may want show it on works comp with XP or older OS.

Anyway I think I've sorted it now, thanks for your help.

John Mitchell · August 8th, 2012, 10:51 PM

Of course you can shoot interlaced on your 700.. 1080i50 is a supported format.

July 25th, 2012, 10:19 AM	#1
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	HM700 shoot i or P I shoot mainly general type footage - weddings etc. so there is normal walking about movement. Until recently I shot at 720x50P but now I have other cameras that I want to match to that shoot only 1080x50i If you are using this camera which do you find is the best best format for producing a PAL DVD 1080x50i or 1080x25P. When I set it to 1080x25P there is a pronounced stuttering on movement which I never saw at 720x50P. Is that normal or do I have a problem?

July 25th, 2012, 10:36 AM	#2
Joachim Claus Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany Posts: 132	Re: HM700 shoot i or P What you see as stuttering with 1080/25P is very normal. The 25 fps have a cine like view, i.e., movements are chopped up. You may use either 720P50 (gives smooth movements) or 1080i/50 which also gives smoth movements with the drawback of interlace artefacts (comb structure at vertical lines when moving). Joachim

July 25th, 2012, 06:22 PM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: HM700 shoot i or P Hey George My Panasonics are much the same...if you just turn on the camera set on 25P and you a pan you will see the EVF image stutter too. Our problem with PAL is that we lose 5 frames compared to the USA people and at 30FPS the stuuter is a lot less noticeable. Seriously I have always shot at 1080 50i and have had no issues at all..at least if the groom suddenly makes a run for the exit at 1080 50i the footage will be smooth. I have yet to see any huge image quality difference as like yourself I'm mainly supplying on DVD. If you are doing slomo stuff then 720 50P is a good idea but that is the only time I use it!! I would rather just shoot 1080 50i and keep it like that Chris

July 26th, 2012, 06:34 AM	#4
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Re: HM700 shoot i or P Hi Chris, I know we've spoken on this topic before when I was shooting 720P. I've switched to 1080i because the Cx550s that I use as support cams only shoot that way so I wanted to try and stay as consistent as I can, and now I'm throwing the GoPro's 1080P into the mix. I don't know about your Panni's but the JVC only shoots 1080P at 25, no 50 option. It seems to me that 'P' footage integrates into an 'i' timeline better than the other way round. The footage from the locked-down Go-Pro looks stable on the interlaced timeline but when I use shots from when I clamped it to my bike (lots of movement) the footage is very choppy, as Joachim describes, so I guess that the Hero is shooting at 25P f/s not 50.

July 26th, 2012, 07:51 AM	#5
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: HM700 shoot i or P Hi George I have the same issue!! I can shoot 1080 25P or 24P but not 50P so footage when you pan is jerky. Yes I too have found that in Sony Vegas with de-interlacing set to blend fields my GoPro seems to fit in perfectly with the 180 50i with no problems. I did a wedding at 1080 25P and there was no skewing or stutter BUT I got pixellation on the bride's face so I went back to 1080 50i.....IMHO it's the safest option for everything even if it doesn't give you the "cinematic look" ... ! I rarely have time to experiment with different modes but I did do a test with all 6 of my camera modes filming the same thing and seriously after putting it to a DVD in random order, I couldn't tell any differences on a 42" TV so I figured the bride certainly wouldn't either. Never had any issues with 50i in the last 10 years so who am I to argue with something that works and hasn't given me any issues..besides my weddings are documentary style so I'm also happy with the "video look" Chris

July 26th, 2012, 08:44 AM	#6
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Re: HM700 shoot i or P Chris. I'm not familiar with Sony Vegas. When you say your project is set to deinterlace and blend fields is that a preset? In Premier the presets are either 50i or 50P, if I want to deinterlace I have to appy it to every clip individually and that causes problems with some of the filters. I use a 50i setting and export everything interlaced to send to Encore for DVD. They look okay on a large screen TV, the problem I have is that mpeg looks rubbish when played as an mpeg on computer or media player. When I exported a progressive mpeg for DVD it was terrible on a TV screen, looked like a field order mismatch. Looks like I need to make two versions now then, a deinterlaced Prog for USB and an interlaced for DVD. Do you have a way of exporting just one file to cover both types of playback?

July 26th, 2012, 06:48 PM	#7
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: HM700 shoot i or P Hi George With your NLE I have no idea. With Sony Vegas what happens is that the interlacing gets stripped at the edit stage. Once you have completed your edits and tweaks you then render the timeline out to the correct file type and correct template..If I'm making a DVD it goes to MPEG2 which is 720 x 576 16:9 widescreen and is interlaced with Lower Field first. If I'm doing a web video, then I render the same timeline to MP4 files which are 1280x720 and that is progressive. Just also bear in mind that most media players within computers nowdays will handle interlaced DVD footage very well and will look perfect. WMP that comes with Win 7 on my machines will play a commercial DVD in the drive and handles the interlaced footage automatically!! Chris

July 27th, 2012, 01:46 AM	#8
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Re: HM700 shoot i or P Hi Chris. I'm still learning. I've discovered that outputting from Premiere as Progressive does the deinterlacing just as your Vegas does. I hadn't know that, I thought that setting was for use when working with footage which had been shot Progressive. Up until recently I've had two work flows. For my commercial business work I only use the JVC cameras shooting 720P and output is almost always now only for computer/internet - usually flv or wmv. so interlacing was not an issue For weddings and work where I use multiple cams I've standardised to 1080i as that's the common format across the range of cameras I use. That's been fine when out putting to DVD as the interlacing stays in place. My problem arose when I want to offer the same output on both DVD and computer media file. Whilst newer comps deal with interlacing I can never be certain that the customers have a new machine or may want show it on works comp with XP or older OS. Anyway I think I've sorted it now, thanks for your help.

August 8th, 2012, 10:51 PM	#9
John Mitchell Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 873	Re: HM700 shoot i or P Of course you can shoot interlaced on your 700.. 1080i50 is a supported format.