Considering changing from P2 to a 750

[George Kilroy]

Just to clarify my previous comments.
If you are not concerned about low light performance, or are happy with on-camera lights, and want a true manual lens (though no auto-focus), then I can recommend the HM750. To my mind for a FCP work flow there's no better option in the price range. Talking of price, bear in mind that you'll have to factor in the cost of a V-lock or AB battery system for the JVC as they usually sell without a power supply/charger and batteries.

[David Cleverly]

Yes, sorry, when I said "P2" I was merely referring to the camera as a whole, not the format itself. I think the P2 format is excellent but it is limiting because you can't afford to simply hand the media over to journalists or clients. SD Cards would change all of that!

I have done side-by-side comparisons and P2 is MUCH quicker to ingest that disc-based XDCAM, too! But I don't think the P2 is very good in low light, anyway...but I certainly wouldn't want to buy a new camera that was WORSE in low light, either.

I am not needing to stick with P2 format and, as much as I like it, I am not attached to it in any way. I think the SD Card format would work perfectly for all my applications and even improve my workflow dramatically. It's just whether or not the picture quality stands up.

Low light performance is an issue, but any night time (news) stuff is always lit with a camera light and corporates are lit as needed. Would love to get my hands on one to put it through its paces using it as I would.

I shoot regular stage-based dance concerts as well as news and corporate/web video. The SD format would be great for concerts as it would mean I could shoot them in HD and not run out of cards!

I can see many benefits of using the JVC - sas long as the picture quality is acceptable and the low light performance is no worse than the Panasonic 502.

[David Cleverly]

Originally Posted by Mike Kujbida

That's probably the best idea so that you can see for yourself.

FYI, St. Clair College - Centre for Applied Health Sciences is a series of videos that were shot with no additional lighting and no color correction of any kind. All I did was do a white balance for each scene. I did have a rented wide angle lens for this shoot.
For examples of videos that were lit, take a look at any of the ones at St. Clair College - Alumni Association - Alumni of Distinction
These were all shot with the stock lens.
In all cases, I shot at 1440x1080i and rendered and uploaded them to YouTube using the 1280x720p preset found in Sony Vegas.

Mike, those pictures are pretty darned good but I can see they are not as vibrant as my HPX500, although that might be because I am used to the Panasonic's over-saturation of colours.

Funnily enough, your pictures remind me of an old S-VHS-C JVC Camcorder I had many years ago. Maybe it's the JVC "look" I am seeing? Not the sharpness though...I mean more the colours.

Thanks for showing me those videos.

[Chris Harding]

Hi David

I reckon you should stick with the 1/2" chips ... I went from 1/4" to 1/3" (Panasonic HMC82 to AC130) and I was sorely disappointed with the low light..sure you get a stop or two extra BUT you still have to use the same lighting to get a decent picture. I did ask George piles of questions about the HM700 series and they are probably a better bet than the new Pannys BUT the 1/3rd chips still will struggle in low light.

If you, like me are used to a shoulder-mount camera then anything else is going to be a huge compromise!! I've been there and done that and I'm back using Panny HMC82's again as I seem to get better results with them that the 160's I ditched that were double the price.

The JVC form factor is probably the best ever....a beautifully balanced camera!! If you go down to the HPX370 you are back on P2 cards and also 1/3rd chips so your only real option is to either keep the 500 or go Sony EX3 ..which is almost shoulder mount and has the absolutely brilliant EVF that uses a big LCD inside the housing with a loupe on front (The HMC82 has the same arrangement and once used they are tough to move away from!!)

I have a feeling that you might not like the Sony colour at all after coming from Panasonic so why not hire an EX3 over a weekend to play with? The HM750 or 790 would be a killer camera if it had 1/2" chips!!

Chris

[Glen Vandermolen]

I had an HPX500. I was unhappy with the image - too soft, no detail. It was those uprezzed chips - ugh.
I went to a Canon XF305 (beautiful image!) and then to my present FS100. The FS is the low light king, you won't worry about low light conditions, if that's your primary concern. The form factor isn't the greatest, but I can live with it. I use a tripod mostly, anyway.
If you can wait til October, JVC is coming out with the HM600, then the HM650. Typical hand held form factor, but they're supposedly very good in low light, with full 1/3" 1920x1080 chips. Even better than the EX1R/3, so says JVC. It records to different video formats onto SDHC cards. They sound pretty cool.

[David Cleverly]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi David

I reckon you should stick with the 1/2" chips ... I went from 1/4" to 1/3" (Panasonic HMC82 to AC130) and I was sorely disappointed with the low light..sure you get a stop or two extra BUT you still have to use the same lighting to get a decent picture. I did ask George piles of questions about the HM700 series and they are probably a better bet than the new Pannys BUT the 1/3rd chips still will struggle in low light.

If you, like me are used to a shoulder-mount camera then anything else is going to be a huge compromise!! I've been there and done that and I'm back using Panny HMC82's again as I seem to get better results with them that the 160's I ditched that were double the price.

The JVC form factor is probably the best ever....a beautifully balanced camera!! If you go down to the HPX370 you are back on P2 cards and also 1/3rd chips so your only real option is to either keep the 500 or go Sony EX3 ..which is almost shoulder mount and has the absolutely brilliant EVF that uses a big LCD inside the housing with a loupe on front (The HMC82 has the same arrangement and once used they are tough to move away from!!)

I have a feeling that you might not like the Sony colour at all after coming from Panasonic so why not hire an EX3 over a weekend to play with? The HM750 or 790 would be a killer camera if it had 1/2" chips!!

Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for that but I'm not considering the Sony's. They are too expensive for what I am doing this for. JVC 750E are around $8k new here at the moment.

To be frank and without going into too much detail, this exercise is to sell the 502 to get some money, pay up some bills and then get a reasonable camera to replace it at the same time improving the workflow I have now. I want something shoulder mount (not having shoulder mount would kill me doing news) and something more workflow-friendly than the P2 format (although I have to say I have perfected the P2 workflow for news and corporates).

I like the JVC, but if the camera is a step backwards (I would love to try it in low light compared to the 502) then I won't be selling the P2. No point except for paying some bills. Nothing worse than selling something you're happy with to replace it with something that is painful simply for a cost-cutting exercise!

[Chris Harding]

Hi David

Yeah I'm very much a Pansonic fan since the earlier 90's actually when we were still using SVHS!! I decided in February to try out a handheld and foolishly abandoned the shoulder mount not realising how dependant I was on it!! I sold both my HMC82's and then had the AC-130 fiasco ..I sorta built shoulder rigs for them but I ended up having to make aluminium rigs and then to keep the balance I ended up making 3X Hoodman loupes fit over the LCD's ... however the cams just had no WOW factor at all...the (half the cost) HMC82's give a much better image in reasonable light but yes with 1/4" chips a video light goes on the camera at wedding receptions.

The way I see it at this stage and without over capitalising there isn't much out there!! I have decided that I'll keep the 82's until something in a reasonable shoulder mount appears but I'm not holding my breath for too long!! Just bear in mind the HM series come without a battery and charger so you have to kick another $1K to the price....from Global Media in NZ you can get the 750 for $5600 ..then you have shipping and GST when it hits our shore and then at least two batteries and you are in for $7500!!! I don't really want to spend $15K on two cameras that will only do a slightly better job than what I have now which have only set me back maybe $4K for the pair!!! Batteries are cheap too!! The cams do the job perfectly for me without having to spend a fortune..it's not broadcast but 1920x1080 at 24mbps gives a pretty good image...I think the HM750 is 35mbps

I try to keep my capital expenditure to under 10% of my income and video makes me around $75K a year so I like to keep total gear purchases under 10% of that....of course if you need to supply low light news footage and have to have BIG chips then I guess you keep the 500.

I haven't seen any specs on the HM600 but I bet they are not shoulder-mount!!

Hope you find something but it will have to be pretty good to match the 500 but I seriously doubt whether you will get even the HM790 or EX-3 to live up to anywhere near a 500 where you are looking at a nearly $10K body/batteries/cards and then at least $10-$15K for a broadcast lens .... 2/3rd chips are 2/3rd chips and for you I don't think any 1/3rd chip camera will meet your expectations or even come close!!

Chris