HM700 vs EX3

[Eric Deyerler]

A JVC Salesman said to me, we build with 1/3", the greater cameras with greater chips will be build by Panasonic and Sony, so we don`t want to participate on the cake.

[Sean Adair]

Originally Posted by Eric Deyerler

A JVC Salesman said to me, we build with 1/3", the greater cameras with greater chips will be build by Panasonic and Sony, so we don`t want to participate on the cake.

Exactly. JVC is a small company, and they are very smart to establish an individual niche for themselves. Having a broadcast/EFP form factor camera that is this compact and cheap is part of that charm. They now have a nice selection of glass and accessories for this line that aren't replaced easily. The EX3/EX1 get 1/2" chips by sacrificing the pro-layout.

JVC going to 1/2" chips in this form factor would mean a much more expensive, and larger camera, putting it into difficult direct competition with strong cameras from the established pro brands.

In the end, the chip size argument isn't as meaningful for most end users as actual results.
Limiting D.O.F. is not always a positive thing. Light sensitivity isn't as big a factor as it was. Both of these are factors which may be addressed in the future by other technologies. Certainly, the comparitive overall camera size, and cost of lenses are attractive features of a smaller chip size, and these I don't see being changed with technological solutions.

[Brian Standing]

Originally Posted by Sean Adair

JVC going to 1/2" chips in this form factor would mean a much more expensive, and larger camera, putting it into difficult direct competition with strong cameras from the established pro brands.

Sorry, I don't buy it. The Sony EX1 and EX3 are both 1/2" chip cameras, and neither is much larger, nor much more expensive, than an HM700. You can't convince me that it it's physically -- or economically -- impossible to put a 1/2" chip in a ProHD form-factor, especially once you replace the bulky tape drive mechanism with a smaller SD card writer. To say nothing of what the DSLR manufacturers are cramming into an even smaller package, and at a price that's less than one-fifth the price of an HM700.

I'm not suggesting that JVC put out a PDW-700 killer (although they have competed in this market in the past). But 1/2" chips in a ProHD chassis would make the JVC models extremely attractive compared to the EX3 (due to better ergonomics and standard lens mount) or the Panasonic HPX300 (due to bigger chips and cheaper recording media).

If JVC has decided not to compete more strongly against Sony and Panasonic, then that's a shame for the consumer. As it is, the HM700 looks like a deliberate compromise. It's still an attractive option, but may or may not meet my creative needs (very wide field of view, ability to play with DOF, and low-light capability).

[Ian Skurrie]

If you want to use a half inch ccd's, the current form factor will not allow adequate cooling of the CCD,s according to comments that I have read (could have been on this forum )(the split screen issues encountered by the hd series were in part due to heat problems due to the close fit inside the camera). It appears that CMOS runs cooler therefore you can run bigger chips. The very significant IR contamination issues that the EX series is encountering, not to mention the problems with rolling shutter are significant detractions for that series. However, the trade off between the resolution manifested in the very nice picturess that the EX series can produce, and the form factor and the less problematic sensors of the HD/hm series make a choice between the HM 700 and the EX series quite difficult.I am about to make this choice soon and I am not at all clear which way I will jump.

[Eric Deyerler]

It's difficult, at first I want an EX3, but now I ordered
an HM700E14, its better on shoulder,
Lowlightperformance is the other hand, but Tim and Phil shot
nice pictures with this cam, so my choice for the HM700.

[Robert M Wright]

Sony is the only mfg putting 1/2" chips (of any type) in a sub $10k camera, aren't they? If JVC put 1/2" chips in a shoulder-mount camera with inter-changeable lens system, somewhat similar to an HD700 (and at a price under $10k) the only real competition would be Sony's EX3. If the chips were CCDs it would be something of a niche market. Even if they went with CMOS, maybe it wouldn't be a niche market, but it's not a crowded market either.

[Steve Phillipps]

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

Sony is the only mfg putting 1/2" chips (of any type) in a sub $10k camera, aren't they? .

Depends if you're counting the likes of the Canon 5dmkII.

Steve

[Robert M Wright]

That's a whole different animal.

[Eric Deyerler]

Take a Canon 5D on your shoulder, that's really different.

[Svein Rune Skilnand]

Thank you for all your input. But if we could leave the discussion about CCDs vs CMOS and chip size, that would be nice. They obviously both have their advantages, but I personally prefer to use or test my equipment under various conditions and see how they hold up, regardless of what the specifications say and chip sizes are.

As I said I liked the EX3, but I did put some strain on my back, actually making me glad when the shoot was over.

So if you really think about it, would you rather have a 1/2 chip camera and a sore back, or would you prefer a 1/3 chip camera and perhaps not a sore back, that would still make you a decent income?

Has anyone done any live world comparisons between them?

[Joe Carney]

There are several 3rd party rigs to turn the EX3 in to a comfortable shoulder camera.

From footage posted so far, the lowlight performance on the 700 is some of the worst I've seen on any camera made during the last 18 months.

On the other hand if you have to get an IR filter for the EX3 you lose at least 1/2 stop, which narrows the DR gap between the two.

At least for feature work, you can control the lighting, but not so much for run and gun news gathering. Tough call.

After some tests I ran at my Church, I would actually take the HPX300 for eng work over the HM700. Not 1080x24p stuff, but 1080x60i or 720x60p that camera rocks. (or 50i/50p....), but even on that camera, the performance is tied into the kit lens.

The EX3 kit lens is wider and you would have access to all the HD CAM 1/2" lenses out there.

[Dave Tyrer]

As I want to shoot Wildlife and unlikely I'll ever be doing it professionally, or making films for broadcast, I reckon I'll be going for the HM700 for the extra reach I'll get with a factor of x7.2 - plus the cost of body only is quite reasonable.

[Svein Rune Skilnand]

It has been a while since this thread was active, but here I go.

I bought an EX3 because of the 1/2 inch chip size and picture quality. After doing so, I since had the opportunity to test an HM700, but with the stock 16x lens.

The images were not quite up there with the EX3, but overall feel and build and actually it`s lowlight capability, not a bad camera at all. Guess what, I really liked the camera.

The EX3 produces beautiful images. But I feel somewhat restricted to using it just on a tripod beacuse of it`s heavy front. When I have to use it handheld I am struggling more over a long period of time. I do a lot of documentary stuff, where there is no time to set up the camera. So this has made me think. I want a shouldermounted camera, having made me looking at various options for doing so. I have been in touch with DM- accessories and looked into the Protech shouldermount as well. But I am torned between spending money on such kind of accessories or sell my camera and just buy a shouldermounted cam.

So I tested the HPX301. Wonderful camera, excellent on the shoulder, broadcast quality and professional features. Good in lowlight as well, but then I`d have to buy into the P2 workflow, consuming more harddrive space as well. And I still liked the images from the EX3 better.

So I am back to the camera that has impressed me the most, between the 3. And that is looking at the total package and workflow and accessories available witout buying adapters, converters, batteryplates, D. taps for lights and so on.

The HM700. It has the complete package at a reasonable price and offers so much. It is shouldermounted, does not have to spend my money there. It has a D- tap for lights, does not have to buy a light with separate battery and it mounts on professional tripodplates as well. The EX3 does not. I find that my EX3 is somewhat unstable on my tripod.

Still, what would you do? Would you keep the EX3 and upgrade it with a shouldermount, batteryplate and so on, or sell it, to buy the HM700 and spend the money on better tripods, microphones etc.

I honestly don`t know what to do. I have been thinking about it for a while and can`t decide. I also have to say, that I am going to Africa in 45 days and will do a lot of handheld shots, travelling fast, with no time to setup properly. I will be filming a desert rally.

Thansk for any input on this matter.

Svein Rune

[Eric Deyerler]

I would sell the EX3 and buy the HM700

[Svein Rune Skilnand]

Eric, you have the HM700 right?

Are you happy with? How do you find it holds up? Any disadvantages you have discovered?
I saw on your previous post, that you have gone through the same choice. May I ask why you ended up with the JVC?