Editing HM 700 on a PC

[Gareth Watkins]

Ok the new JVC shoulder cam looks superb... but the .MOV wrapper is less so when you are not on a Mac...
I've just updated my system to a new PC and CS4, so obviously as much as I like Mac's it ain't on the cards... however a new camera might just be... I like the form factor of this camera...SD cards especially and the shoulder mount with a canon lens wre superb...

BUT how do you get it to work in CS4? I've looked at the Calibrated codec download but it doesn't seem to work with with CS4 with Tim Dashwood's clips.... or am I doing it wrong?

Any help would be useful..

cheers
Gareth

[Joachim Claus]

see Tim Dashwoods comment on this subject in the following thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-gy-hm...-premiere.html

Regards,
Joachim

[Gareth Watkins]

Yes I've no issue with the MP4 clips.. CS4 does that fine...
However the .MOV clips that it uses on th eSD cards without the add on Xdcam adapter need a third party plugin/codec...or such like...to work (this I can't seem to make work)

I'd have thought that JVC would supply a downloadable software to treat their images in a PC... it is after all only a wrapper and the footage is recorded in Mpeg2...

cheers
Gareth

[Artkran Temritikulchai]

Can we just change the file extension to make it work?

[Sean Adair]

Originally Posted by Artkran Temritikulchai

Can we just change the file extension to make it work?

In a word, NO. Video format wrappers are much more than their suffix. The reason for this is a licensing issue. The Sony licensing gets tied to the SxS box, not the camera. It's not inconceivable that a lossless software converter (like clipwrap) could put the .mov into the mp4 format, but don't hold your breath, or expect it from JVC. As I recall, when purchased with the camera, the box is only an additional $500, which is not bad considering the other added functionality.

You should have the option of a utility to transcode the footage into a codec like sheer, but this workflow would probably only be comfortable for short form work.

[Jack Walker]

Originally Posted by Sean Adair

As I recall, when purchased with the camera, the box is only an additional $500, which is not bad considering the other added functionality.

The box adds onto the length and complication of the camera. Perahaps JVC could just sell the license for $500, so the box doesn't have to be stuck on. The HM-100 doesn't need a box.

(However, the HM-100 seems to have other features deliberately disabled. But who knows, maybe that will change. I don't think the camera is finished being made yet.)

[Sean Adair]

I suspect it's Sony calling the shots here, not JVC. Put the .mp4 clips on SxS media, and call it XD-cam. But bypassing the SxS media for a cheaper alternative makes Sony's options less attractive. The box is pretty light though, and when recording to internal SDHC doesn't really add complications. I think this is a better option than having it welded onto the camera along with the price tag.

[Lee Roberts]

I think I have this right: If you are editing on a PC, it doesn't matter whether you're using .mov's or .mp4's, an intermeditate step is required before you can edit the native footage in Vegas, PP, et al. - right? (excluding the output via SDI to .m2t).

I've always been a JVC fan, but this is really inexcusable (if it's correct). I wasn't able to download TD's clips and open either the .mp4's or .mov's directly in Vegas (I didn't think I'd be able to - I get a sound track but no video). I'm sure the Mac/FCP crowd is overjoyed, but it's hard to believe that, given Apple's overall market share and the price of this camera (the 700), that FCP enjoys a greater than 50% market share in video editing at this level.

I use Neo Scene to convert .m2t to .avi from my other JVC cams, so I guess it's not a huge issue given that I'm really not adding an extra step personally, but still: how hard would it have been to please both the PC and the Mac crowd? Then there's the Vegas issue: XDCAM EX is supposed to be Sony's technology, right? You'd think that after they partnered with JVC, the least they could have done would have been to make the files native to the camera capable of being directly imported into their own PC editing application natively, too.

Before someone dogs me for using Vegas and a PC (or begins the "FCP is better" argument), understand what it would take for most PC users to make the switch:

- >$3k for the hardware (possibly more to get a system comparable to my latest PC...i7, 8gb, 250gb RAID 0, 750gb system drive...<$2k, no monitor)
- $1200 for FCP, not to mention any plug-ins

After tax, I would be looking at almost $5k, and the only thing I could do on the new machine is edit video. Start adding in the cost of AE, PhotoShop, Office, etc. and I could EASILY drop over $10k if I wanted to make the transition complete (and legal).

I have no gripe with the Mac - I taught a computer class at a local high school and the IT department was outfitted with Macs and I enjoyed using them. For someone who has embraced PC's though, the economies for switching technologies is huge.

Unless I have just completely misunderstood the process, it would seem imperative that JVC put forth some effort immediately to accomodate the PC crowd. Am I alone in this thinking?

Sorry for the mini-rant...I'm doing the insomnia thing tonight ;)

Best ~ Lee

P.S. My dealer called me yesterday and I should have my 700 in today or tomorrow (Fuji 17x). If you guys want some specific footage, please let me know. I've set aside a day to mess around with the camera. I'll try to shoot under whatever (reasonable) conditions you request.

[Steve Lefi]

Lee I think you have misunderstood the process.
I don't think you can generalize PC Editing. I tested the .mp4 clips in EDIUS.
They work as is. Realtime no intermediate steps.

Someone already reported that the .mp4 work perfect in CS4.
Vegas should be able to edit .mp4 native as it supports EX. Strange that you can't open these files.

[Tim Dashwood]

Workflows vary from product to product but it seems Vegas users are required to use Sony's clip browser to convert the mp4 wrapper to mxf before import.

Also, we've been using the XD Decode software on a Windows machine with Premiere Pro CS4 and it has been working flawlessly for the last two weeks with the HM700's .MOV files. We had originally been using Premiere Pro 2 and the only issue was that PP2 was interpreting the frame rate as 239.76 fps instead of 23.976fps. PP CS4 doesn't have that issue.

XDCAM HD and EX workflow for NLEs

Apple Final Cut Pro
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...kflow_v9_6.pdf

Sony Vegas Pro
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...kflow_v9_6.pdf

Adobe Premiere Pro
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...kflow_v9_6.pdf

Avid Media Composer
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...kflow_v9_6.pdf

Thomson Edius Pro
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...kflow_v9_6.pdf

[Gareth Watkins]

hi Tim,
I found my problem.. I had a Quicktime alternative installed on my PC and not the genuine Apple one... the XD Decode wouldn't work with it.. I've now installed the Apple download QT7 and the clip you put up imports no problem into Premiere as you said it would...

Ok to get rid of the grey bars I need to shell out 80 dollars but that is ok...

Thanks & regards
Gareth

[Lee Roberts]

Originally Posted by Steve Lefi

Lee I think you have misunderstood the process.....

That's not surprising. I'm not that smart.

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Workflows vary from product to product but it seems Vegas users are required to use Sony's clip browser to convert the mp4 wrapper to mxf before import.

TD - Thanks for providing the various work flow links. I'm sure many (including me) will find them useful.

Am I the only person that thinks it's a little bizarre that Vegas users have to convert the .mp4 files before using them, especially considering that XDCAM EX is a Sony thing? It's a rhetorical question, really....I'm just whining at this point - I realize that it is what it is. Maybe Vegas will come out with an update that addresses the issue.

I appreciate the replies!

Have a good one ~ Lee

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Lee Roberts

Am I the only person that thinks it's a little bizarre that Vegas users have to convert the .mp4 files before using them, especially considering that XDCAM EX is a Sony thing? It's a rhetorical question, really....I'm just whining at this point - I realize that it is what it is.

I think its a valid question. You would think that Sony Vegas would have the smoothest XDCAM EX workflow of all.

I think it is bizarre that I can take a SDHC card with AVCHD footage from a Panasonic camera, insert it into my Sony Playstation 3 and instantly watch HD dailies, but the PS3 doesn't understand XDCAM EX files at all.

[David Johns]

Originally Posted by Lee Roberts

I think I have this right: If you are editing on a PC, it doesn't matter whether you're using .mov's or .mp4's, an intermeditate step is required before you can edit the native footage in Vegas, PP, et al. - right?

No... Vegas Pro 8c and the .mov files work fine for me, albeit only testing with the trial version of the Calibrated{Q} XD Decode software. I downloaded some of the test files that people have posted here previously, Vegas saw them as 35Mbps 1280x720 files and played them back quite happily; it wasn't the fastest frame rate ever (about 15fps on a Core i7 PC at 2.66) but it works...

On the other hand, I couldn't get Vegas to import Tim's mp4 files. First the zip file refused to unzip properly but even after I hacked about with it, Clip Browser just refused to reconise the files inside.

Regards
Dave

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by David Johns

On the other hand, I couldn't get Vegas to import Tim's mp4 files. First the zip file refused to unzip properly but even after I hacked about with it, Clip Browser just refused to reconise the files inside.

Can you let me know specifically what the filename is. I think one or more of the zip files may not have uploaded to the ftp completely. I had an internet interruption during upload and then "resumed" the file upload instead of overwriting.