New GY-HM700 Camcorder

Matthias Krause · February 12th, 2009, 09:45 AM

Chris,
can we hope for some impressions or maybe even footage from the GY-HM100 too or did you only deal with the HM700?
Thanks,
Matthias

Chris Hurd · February 12th, 2009, 10:24 AM

Hi Matthias, even though the HM100 was announced earlier, the HM700 is closer to being a finished product. Tim shot a little bit with the HM100 in January, but that camera was only about 85% complete and there were too many functions (such as image stabilization, most notably) that had yet to be enabled... so we were reluctant to show video from it as any clips would *not* be accurately representative of a finished version.

The HM700, on the other hand, is much closer to completion and will be released before the HM100. The camera that Tim and I saw in New York on Tuesday is still an engineering sample, and apparently the only one currently in existence, but it is much further along in terms of functionality.

Tim and I split up yesterday around noon; I went off to attend the Panasonic press meeting while Tim spent more time with the HM700. We had agreed earlier to lobby JVC to let us record some clips that we can show you, but he and I both traveled back to our respective homes pretty late last night and I haven't talked to him yet, so I don't know how that's turned out.

So basically, the HM100 engineering sample that we saw isn't quite ready for showing video, but hopefully the HM700 is. We'll do our best to get some HM100 clips as soon as we can though. Meanwhile be sure to read Tim's first impressions of the HM100 at http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/jvcpr...0sneakpeek.php -- hope this helps,

Shaun Roemich · February 12th, 2009, 10:32 AM

Thanks Chris (and Tim) for finally putting some end to all our speculation. I have to say, as excited as I am about the HM700, the realization that I need to buy the SxS adaptor, regardless of what media I choose to use, in order to record XDCam EX on the premium priced camera IS a disappointment. I believe MSRP on the SxS adaptor is nearly $1800, making the "fully" equipped HM700 essentially a $10k USD purchase. I sincerely hope that when you folks are able to show us footage, our response is "ok, I CAN justify $10k for a 1/3" chip camera with less brand recognition than Sony".

Brian Standing · February 12th, 2009, 11:01 AM

Thanks, Chris, for clearing that up. So, unless we pony up for the SxS adapter, we're stuck with ProRes QuickTime files. That's a bit disappointing. As a Vegas user, I'm not a big fan of QuickTime, as it seems to bog my system down. I'd have been happier if JVC used Cineform for SDHC instead, or as an alternative to, ProRes. I'll be curious to try some clips and see how they respond outside of a Final Cut Pro environment.

Looking forward to Tim's reports!

Tim Dashwood · February 12th, 2009, 11:03 AM

Jon Fauer ASC and I spent some quality time with the HM700 yesterday and I did shoot footage in most of the modes (including undercrank 10fps and overcrank 60fps) on a beautiful spring-like day in the Meat Packing District of NYC, but the restaurant was opposed to us shooting any interior "low-light" material. I did play with +18dB gain while sitting at the table and I would say that there is an incredible improvement over the last generation of camcorders. I couldn't find LoLux in this engineering sample. Luckily we'll only have to wait a few weeks before the production models start shipping.
I played again with the HM100 as well, which had a software update since I last used it in Vegas, but the OIS still wasn't installed in that particular unit.

More to come...

Tim Dashwood · February 12th, 2009, 11:22 AM

This generation of HM cameras uses the XDCAM EX mpeg-2 long-GOP 19/25/35mbps codec whether it is wrapped in .mov or .mp4.

The HM100 will be able to record to SDHC in either .mov or .mp4 but you will never hear mention of "XDCAM EX" in relation to the camera presumably because the license from Sony doesn't cover recording to SDHC.

In the case of the HM700 the SxS recorder (which I was told will have SRP of $1000) acts as a dongle key to unlock XDCAM EX recording in .mp4 wrapper.

To be clear: a HM700 fresh out-of-the-box will record XDCAM EX codec wrapped in .mov in all modes and 19/25/35mbps bitrates to the SDHC card slots. These files will play on any Mac with FCP installed, or any Mac with the open source Perian XDCAM codecs installed, or a PC with the Windows XDCAM Quicktime codecs installed.

Once the SxS unit is attached you will be able to record XDCAM wrapped in .mp4 to either the SDHC slots or SxS slot (or both simultaneously.) Only .mp4 XDCAM can be recorded to the SxS slot, not .mov.

The JVC people assume that an expresscard SDHC adapter will also work with SxS slot (allowing simultaneous SDHC recording to two cards) but it has not been tested.

Shaun Roemich · February 12th, 2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

To be clear: a HM700 fresh out-of-the-box will record XDCAM codec wrapped in .mov in all modes and 19/25/35mbps bitrates to the SDHC card slots.

My brain hurts Tim.

Just so I can be clear: if I buy the HM700 and opt not to purchase the SxS adaptor, I can record 35mbit XDCam EX to the SDHC onboard?

If I want .mp4 files OR want SxS card recording to hand to clients with an SxS workflow, I need the adaptor, correct?

David Parks · February 12th, 2009, 11:44 AM

Bottom Line???

SDHC w/o SXS = .mov 19/25/35 flavors.
SDHC + SXS = .mov & .mp4 19/25/35 flavors.

Like we said .mp4 will work with Avid, it is just a slower import than rewrapped mp4 to mxf.

Still a disappointment.

Andy Tejral · February 12th, 2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

My brain hurts Tim.

Me too. Can we call this ConfusoCam?

Tim Dashwood · February 12th, 2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Just so I can be clear: if I buy the HM700 and opt not to purchase the SxS adaptor, I can record 35mbit XDCam EX to the SDHC onboard?

Yes XDCAM EX wrapped in Quicktime .mov.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

If I want .mp4 files OR want SxS card recording to hand to clients with an SxS workflow, I need the adaptor, correct?

Yes. The adapter will "unlock" the ability to wrap XDCAM EX in mp4, which is how the EX1/EX3 cameras do it.
This presumably is a condition of JVC's licensing agreement with Sony.

BTW mp4 is just used as a wrapper for XDCAM EX, but it is still mpeg-2 long-GOP inside.

Brian Standing · February 12th, 2009, 01:48 PM

Ahhh.... the light is beginning to dawn. I think I get it now.

Shaun Roemich · February 12th, 2009, 01:49 PM

Thanks for the FURTHER clarification Tim. Already talking to Pete about these...

Jack Walker · February 12th, 2009, 02:34 PM

This wikipedia article about XDCAM formats and their implementation in different cameras (including the new JVC cameras) clairifies some of the confusion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XDCAM

It seems MXF is not relevant, as that applies to the XDCAM format recorded to disc.

XDCAM EX, the solid-state format, is wrapped in MP4.

The article mentions that NLEs with MXF editing ability are not automatically able to edit the new MP4-wrapped version. There is not backward compatibility from XDCAM HD to XDCAM EX(except for SD).

Thus, is seems it is on the NLEs to implement the new EX (MP4-wrapped) format.

It would seem then that the JVC camera offers what the Sony cameras do, _plus_ the Quicktime wrapper option.

David Parks · February 12th, 2009, 02:54 PM

Sony Clip Browser software: https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/son...del-XDZP1.aspx

When you record XDCAM as mp4, then you use the free Sony Clip Browser software which in turn will re-wrap mp4 to mxf. It is a very fast process and will in turn allow you to go straight into Avid, Vegas etc. I think I read that Premiere and Edius will edit mp4 without rewrap.

BTW, the software utility is free.

Tim Dashwood · February 12th, 2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

It would seem then that the JVC camera offers what the Sony cameras do, _plus_ the Quicktime wrapper option.

Exactly. The bottom line is that if a NLE says it can ingest footage from an EX1 or EX3 then it will also work with the HM700 with SxS module or the HM100.

Also, there is a DV/HDV firewire port for backwards compatibility with older NLE systems or DTE recorders like the DR-HD100. All HD clips at all bitrates can be downconverted to either NTSC DV or PAL DV via the firewire port (PAL or NTSC is automatically selected based on the source frame/field rate.)

Also, 19.2mbps 720p or 25mbps 1080i/p files can be output via the firewire port as a HDV stream. I don't think the camera is able to downsample from 35Mbps to lower HDV rates, but I haven't confirmed that with JVC.

February 12th, 2009, 10:24 AM	#137
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Matthias, even though the HM100 was announced earlier, the HM700 is closer to being a finished product. Tim shot a little bit with the HM100 in January, but that camera was only about 85% complete and there were too many functions (such as image stabilization, most notably) that had yet to be enabled... so we were reluctant to show video from it as any clips would not be accurately representative of a finished version. The HM700, on the other hand, is much closer to completion and will be released before the HM100. The camera that Tim and I saw in New York on Tuesday is still an engineering sample, and apparently the only one currently in existence, but it is much further along in terms of functionality. Tim and I split up yesterday around noon; I went off to attend the Panasonic press meeting while Tim spent more time with the HM700. We had agreed earlier to lobby JVC to let us record some clips that we can show you, but he and I both traveled back to our respective homes pretty late last night and I haven't talked to him yet, so I don't know how that's turned out. So basically, the HM100 engineering sample that we saw isn't quite ready for showing video, but hopefully the HM700 is. We'll do our best to get some HM100 clips as soon as we can though. Meanwhile be sure to read Tim's first impressions of the HM100 at http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/jvcpr...0sneakpeek.php -- hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 12th, 2009, 10:32 AM	#138
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Thanks Chris (and Tim) for finally putting some end to all our speculation. I have to say, as excited as I am about the HM700, the realization that I need to buy the SxS adaptor, regardless of what media I choose to use, in order to record XDCam EX on the premium priced camera IS a disappointment. I believe MSRP on the SxS adaptor is nearly $1800, making the "fully" equipped HM700 essentially a $10k USD purchase. I sincerely hope that when you folks are able to show us footage, our response is "ok, I CAN justify $10k for a 1/3" chip camera with less brand recognition than Sony". __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

February 12th, 2009, 11:01 AM	#139
Brian Standing Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 621	Thanks, Chris, for clearing that up. So, unless we pony up for the SxS adapter, we're stuck with ProRes QuickTime files. That's a bit disappointing. As a Vegas user, I'm not a big fan of QuickTime, as it seems to bog my system down. I'd have been happier if JVC used Cineform for SDHC instead, or as an alternative to, ProRes. I'll be curious to try some clips and see how they respond outside of a Final Cut Pro environment. Looking forward to Tim's reports! __________________ http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/ Documentary for the masses!

February 12th, 2009, 11:03 AM	#140
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Jon Fauer ASC and I spent some quality time with the HM700 yesterday and I did shoot footage in most of the modes (including undercrank 10fps and overcrank 60fps) on a beautiful spring-like day in the Meat Packing District of NYC, but the restaurant was opposed to us shooting any interior "low-light" material. I did play with +18dB gain while sitting at the table and I would say that there is an incredible improvement over the last generation of camcorders. I couldn't find LoLux in this engineering sample. Luckily we'll only have to wait a few weeks before the production models start shipping. I played again with the HM100 as well, which had a software update since I last used it in Vegas, but the OIS still wasn't installed in that particular unit. More to come... __________________ Tim Dashwood

February 12th, 2009, 11:22 AM	#141
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Just for added clarity This generation of HM cameras uses the XDCAM EX mpeg-2 long-GOP 19/25/35mbps codec whether it is wrapped in .mov or .mp4. The HM100 will be able to record to SDHC in either .mov or .mp4 but you will never hear mention of "XDCAM EX" in relation to the camera presumably because the license from Sony doesn't cover recording to SDHC. In the case of the HM700 the SxS recorder (which I was told will have SRP of $1000) acts as a dongle key to unlock XDCAM EX recording in .mp4 wrapper. To be clear: a HM700 fresh out-of-the-box will record XDCAM EX codec wrapped in .mov in all modes and 19/25/35mbps bitrates to the SDHC card slots. These files will play on any Mac with FCP installed, or any Mac with the open source Perian XDCAM codecs installed, or a PC with the Windows XDCAM Quicktime codecs installed. Once the SxS unit is attached you will be able to record XDCAM wrapped in .mp4 to either the SDHC slots or SxS slot (or both simultaneously.) Only .mp4 XDCAM can be recorded to the SxS slot, not .mov. The JVC people assume that an expresscard SDHC adapter will also work with SxS slot (allowing simultaneous SDHC recording to two cards) but it has not been tested. __________________ Tim Dashwood

February 12th, 2009, 09:45 AM	#136
Matthias Krause Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 203	Chris, can we hope for some impressions or maybe even footage from the GY-HM100 too or did you only deal with the HM700? Thanks, Matthias

February 12th, 2009, 11:44 AM	#143
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Bottom Line??? SDHC w/o SXS = .mov 19/25/35 flavors. SDHC + SXS = .mov & .mp4 19/25/35 flavors. Like we said .mp4 will work with Avid, it is just a slower import than rewrapped mp4 to mxf. Still a disappointment. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

February 12th, 2009, 01:48 PM	#146
Brian Standing Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 621	Ahhh.... the light is beginning to dawn. I think I get it now. __________________ http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/ Documentary for the masses!

February 12th, 2009, 01:49 PM	#147
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Thanks for the FURTHER clarification Tim. Already talking to Pete about these... __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

February 12th, 2009, 02:34 PM	#148
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	This wikipedia article about XDCAM formats and their implementation in different cameras (including the new JVC cameras) clairifies some of the confusion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XDCAM It seems MXF is not relevant, as that applies to the XDCAM format recorded to disc. XDCAM EX, the solid-state format, is wrapped in MP4. The article mentions that NLEs with MXF editing ability are not automatically able to edit the new MP4-wrapped version. There is not backward compatibility from XDCAM HD to XDCAM EX(except for SD). Thus, is seems it is on the NLEs to implement the new EX (MP4-wrapped) format. It would seem then that the JVC camera offers what the Sony cameras do, _plus_ the Quicktime wrapper option.

February 12th, 2009, 02:54 PM	#149
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Sony Clip Browser software: https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/son...del-XDZP1.aspx When you record XDCAM as mp4, then you use the free Sony Clip Browser software which in turn will re-wrap mp4 to mxf. It is a very fast process and will in turn allow you to go straight into Avid, Vegas etc. I think I read that Premiere and Edius will edit mp4 without rewrap. BTW, the software utility is free. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG