Getting my head around manual exposure on the HM100

[Keith Moreau]

I don't think the exposure control is all that confusing. It's either full auto with + or - to adjust for backlight or spotlight, or full manual, or while in manual mode, aperture priority or shutter priority. The 'bug' in it as I see it is when you put it into aperture priority mode, and then you want to fine-tune the shutter speed by clicking on the shutter speed button, it switches back to whatever manual shutter speed you had before, not what the HM100 had previously adjusted the shutter speed to to get what it thought was the proper exposure.

So say you had the aperture just right, but you want to just stop down the exposure or bump it up by adjusting the shutter. Or maybe you just want to see what the camcorder set the shutter to make sure there isn't strobing, the 'private ryan effect' etc, or whatever... you press the shutter button, and it goes to whatever you had set it to before, dimming it or brighting it and you are now out of whack and have to either go back to aperture priority or flick the switch until you have what you want.

Maybe JVC sees some logic here in the current behavior, but it seems like an oversight. For shutter priority mode (with the black shutter speed indicator on and no aperture indicator) when you click the aperture button it stays at what it had automatically set the aperture to, then you can open or close the aperture to taste. You can't do that with the shutter speed in the same way.

Now with a 1/4" sensor you may not be doing a lot of aperture choices for depth of field control, but you might, and you also might want to make sure that the aperture is around it's 'sweet spot' for the sharpest image.

So JVC, if you're listening, if you can provide a firmware update, make shutter speed in switching from aperture priority to full manual with the shutter consistent. Also find some way to display the aperture and shutter all the time, whatever the mode. It will give us hints on how to get better performance out of the camcorder. If you're worried that it may clutter the display, make it an option in the menu for those that need more info or those that don't care to see more info.

Sony had several firmware updates on the EX1 within it's first few months of release, and it seems nowadays it's more common, the Canon recently updated it's control on the 5DmkII, so it seems if there is enough demand for enhancements they could happen. I have no idea how JVC does update the firmware in this camcorder but I assume it could read something off the card or the USB interface.

Again, this being said, these 'bugs' don't make the camcorder unusable. Things like these should not stop you from purchasing it. The image quality and sound is very good for a camcorder in this price range, and the codec and portability is unprecedented.

[John Markert]

Man, I love these forums!

I think JVC has priced both the 100 and the 700 too high on the strength of the .mov/35 mbs/XDCAM codec. Yes, it's a unique time saver, but I don't need to save time and I'd like to pay less. Or, I'd pay what they're asking if the chip sizes were bumped up to 1/3" and 1/2" respectively.

For the same price as the 100, I could get an HMC 150 with a real nice wide lens, 1/3" chips, and a thoroughly modern H.264 codec running at 24 mbs. Yes, I'd have to log and transfer to ProRes or wait for FCP 7 to do it natively.

As for the 700, I think $5,500. would make it very attractive as is, and I'd have to live with the 1/3" CCD's. And I miss the CAC built into the HPX300. I hope the 14x Canon lens gets rid of the magenta outline around edges with the Fuji 17x lens. Maybe it's just "focus assist" leaking into the CCD's!

If this were 2006, things would be different, but we're in the middle of The Great Recession, and it's a tougher sale all around.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by John Markert

and a thoroughly modern H.264 codec running at 24 mbs. Yes, I'd have to log and transfer to ProRes or wait for FCP 7 to do it natively.

While I agree that not everyone needs a super fast workflow -- h.264 takes about 6X more compute power that MPEG-2 and delivers no visual benefit. In fact, it's worse than MPEG-2 at 35Mbps. So I'd say it's "modern" only in the sense it is newer. It certainly isn't better.

Both Pana and Sony are pushing this codec whose only advantage is longer recording time at the exact same time the chip folks are introducing huge fast SDHC cards. JVC is so smart to let the semi industry solve storage problems while they solve editing problems.

You'll also notice that while Sony pushs h.264 on consumers -- it's not bothering about it for pro cameras. All Sony needs to do is allow XDCAM 422 to be written to cards and that effectively pushes h.264 further out of the picture.

PS: Not sure what Sony will do about 10-bit recording. XDCAM discs can record at 70Mbps. This should allow 10-bit XDCAM 422.

[Keith Moreau]

Originally Posted by John Markert

For the same price as the 100, I could get an HMC 150 with a real nice wide lens, 1/3" chips, and a thoroughly modern H.264 codec running at 24 mbs. Yes, I'd have to log and transfer to ProRes or wait for FCP 7 to do it natively.

I actually did get the Panasonic HMC150 when it first came out in January, but as soon as the HM100 was announced I returned it and waited 4 months for the HM100 and got it as soo as it was available.

For the price and image quality, the Panasonic HMC150 was a pretty good deal. It had most of the 'pro features' that we would like to see in the HM100, for a little less money, such as dial aperture, waveform generator. It didn't have a very good LCD or viewfinder, not any better than the HM100. However it used the H.264 codec as well as it was quite a bit bigger and heavier than the HM100. The images were very pleasing but while I believe a bit better than it's 'big brother,' the HVX, they were still, in my opinion, a bit 'soft.' I didn't find the sensitivity or latitude to be superlative.

For me the XDCAM EX codec is a 'money saver.' It saves me money by not having to transcode to about 6x the original file size. So while the size of the original AVCHD file is maybe 2/3 of the XDCAM EX codec, it winds up taking 6x by the time you transcode it to Prores. You have to also factor in the time you have to take to do the initial transcoding. It's an extra step that you just don't have to do with the JVC XDCAM implementation. Just drag them into your timeline. Your Mac or PC will be able to handle multiple streams of the HDCAM EX codec just fine.

When you start having to back up and archive lots of hours of footage, the storage space and method of backing all this up becomes a big issue. Do you just back up the original H.264s, or do you also back up the Prores transcodes as well? Do you decide to do a log and transfer of just the clips you need to transcode? All these questions become moot if you are using XDCAM EX files.

For right now, for me, if you do a lot of hours of acquisition XDCAM EX is one of the best choices for high-quality in a reasonable storage space.

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Keith Moreau

I actually did get the Panasonic HMC150 when it first came out in January, but as soon as the HM100 was announced I returned it and waited 4 months for the HM100 and got it as soo as it was available.

For the price and image quality, the Panasonic HMC150 was a pretty good deal. It had most of the 'pro features' that we would like to see in the HM100, for a little less money, such as dial aperture, waveform generator. It didn't have a very good LCD or viewfinder, not any better than the HM100. However it used the H.264 codec as well as it was quite a bit bigger and heavier than the HM100. The images were very pleasing but while I believe a bit better than it's 'big brother,' the HVX, they were still, in my opinion, a bit 'soft.' I didn't find the sensitivity or latitude to be superlative.

For me the XDCAM EX codec is a 'money saver.' It saves me money by not having to transcode to about 6x the original file size. So while the size of the original AVCHD file is maybe 2/3 of the XDCAM EX codec, it winds up taking 6x by the time you transcode it to Prores. You have to also factor in the time you have to take to do the initial transcoding. It's an extra step that you just don't have to do with the JVC XDCAM implementation. Just drag them into your timeline. Your Mac or PC will be able to handle multiple streams of the HDCAM EX codec just fine.

When you start having to back up and archive lots of hours of footage, the storage space and method of backing all this up becomes a big issue. Do you just back up the original H.264s, or do you also back up the Prores transcodes as well? Do you decide to do a log and transfer of just the clips you need to transcode? All these questions become moot if you are using XDCAM EX files.

For right now, for me, if you do a lot of hours of acquisition XDCAM EX is one of the best choices for high-quality in a reasonable storage space.

Keith Moreau,

So are you happy with HM100? I have HD7 and want to buy this new HM100.

Kaushik

[Keith Moreau]

Originally Posted by Kaushik Parmar

Keith Moreau,

So are you happy with HM100? I have HD7 and want to buy this new HM100.

Kaushik

I am happy with it with a few frustrations outlined above and in other posts mostly having to do with a few items that JVC left out but I think could have easily put in to make it just a little bit more "professional" in controlling the camcorder properly. I use it all the time, much more frequently than my much more expensive Sony EX1 just because it is way more portable. The best camcorder is the one you wind up using.

However, if you don't need the XDCAM EX codec, or the XLR audio or CCD (no-rolling shutter issues) sensors, then there are numerous GREAT consumer AVCHD camcorders that in some ways are better than the HM100, are more portable an much less expensive.

One that I did purchase but reluctantly returned was the Canon HFS100, an AVCHD camcorder with progressive 24P and 30P modes. I liked everything about it except for the AVCHD codec. It had a manual focus dial, some level of exposure control (not fully manual but you could fudge it to get what you wanted), awesome 8MP digital stills, great macro capability, and good sound as well as a way to add external mics. It was about $1,000, as opposed to the $3,500 JVC HM100. I just realized that I didn't need 2 super portable camcorders, one prosumer and one consumer.

I'm happy with my decision with the HM100. There are also good CMOS consumer cams from other manufacturers, such as Panasonic and Sony. However neither of those has a 30P mode. The Panasonics have a 24P mode but it's not very good quality, and the Sonys, for some reason have 60i as well as using internal hard drives instead of SDHC because they cannot bring themselves to use the ubiquitous and inexpensive SDHC cards.

Good luck in your decision. Hope I didn't make it harder.

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Keith Moreau

I am happy with it with a few frustrations outlined above and in other posts mostly having to do with a few items that JVC left out but I think could have easily put in to make it just a little bit more "professional" in controlling the camcorder properly. I use it all the time, much more frequently than my much more expensive Sony EX1 just because it is way more portable. The best camcorder is the one you wind up using.

However, if you don't need the XDCAM EX codec, or the XLR audio or CCD (no-rolling shutter issues) sensors, then there are numerous GREAT consumer AVCHD camcorders that in some ways are better than the HM100, are more portable an much less expensive.

One that I did purchase but reluctantly returned was the Canon HFS100, an AVCHD camcorder with progressive 24P and 30P modes. I liked everything about it except for the AVCHD codec. It had a manual focus dial, some level of exposure control (not fully manual but you could fudge it to get what you wanted), awesome 8MP digital stills, great macro capability, and good sound as well as a way to add external mics. It was about $1,000, as opposed to the $3,500 JVC HM100. I just realized that I didn't need 2 super portable camcorders, one prosumer and one consumer.

I'm happy with my decision with the HM100. There are also good CMOS consumer cams from other manufacturers, such as Panasonic and Sony. However neither of those has a 30P mode. The Panasonics have a 24P mode but it's not very good quality, and the Sonys, for some reason have 60i as well as using internal hard drives instead of SDHC because they cannot bring themselves to use the ubiquitous and inexpensive SDHC cards.

Good luck in your decision. Hope I didn't make it harder.

Keith Moreau,

Thanks for your reply.

If someone can help me to take decision. I want to do professional photo/ videography. Now I have already with me JVC HD7, and I want to buy HM100 that is sure. But for still I am considering Canon 5DMKII, now is that right choice? I have temptation for its 1080p video feature, but HM100 is giving me same kind of video than should I still go for 5DMKII? Off curse still on 5DMKII would be fantastic, but for video should I buy? Since I will have HM100 also with me. So question is that should I go for both HM100 & 5DMKII? And I like Fuji S5Pro also for still pictures and it is not much costly, and yet great camera and Fuji S100fs is also amazing very cheap, about $400. So one thing is clear HM100 would be there but what about 5DMKII? Should I buy that too? Or Fuji S5Pro?

I would really appreciate help on this issue.

Thanks,
Kaushik

[Alex Humphrey]

Kaushik. Well I don't have either but I have read lots of reviews of the Canon as well as the Nikon competition. The consensus is that the canon and nikons are great cameras, that now offer some HD work. But they are impractical to use for HD aquisition. Now if you think of it as you are out photographing, and suddenly you think 2 minutes of the stream and deer you are photographing could make a good clip for your HD doc you are working on, then yes you can shoot the video.. but you wouldn't want to go through the hoops of shooting much of it with the camera...

My thoughts? sell your HD7, get the HM100 and get a good canon/nikon digital camera if you don't have one. if you can swing the HD canon/nikon for not much more, then do it, you never know when you will want to capture some HD footage while photographing..

[Jack Walker]

If you are going to get the HM100 for sure, I think you might want to hold back on a top-0f-the-line BIG and HEAVY SLR, the lenses, etc.

Trying to do video and carry a full-size DSLR is not easy.

First question, how much experience do you have with still photography. If it is not a lot and you have not already been working with pro Canon DSLRs and have the lenses, I would stay away from it for now if your primary interest is video.

The smaller (and less expensive) options you have suggested make more sense. Even if you want to upgrade to a top full pro DSLR setup later, the smaller camera will still have a use.

As well, in 6 months, there's a good chance that there will be even more improvements on the pro DSLRs.

If you have no DSLR gear at this time and want a step-up from the consumer options into the pro world, the new Pentax K-7 is something to look at:
Pentax K-7 Hands-on Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
Besides being very reasonably priced, the smaller size, lighter weight, and much easier to use interface, make this camera ideal as a DSLR supplement to a videographer. (This camera also shoots video.)

A while back, working on a documentary, I suddenly needed to take some stills for a magazine. I bought the Pentax K-10, then the K-20 (still using), and it worked out well. Much lighter weight and some excellent lens choices. The new K-7 is even smaller, better designed, and a lot of improved features.

Now for full time photographer with very special and specific needs (like sports, etc.), I think the top-of-the line Canons (and maybe Nikon now) are necessary... with the considerable lens choices and other specialized features in the different models.

However, for someone whose primary interest is video and who is not (or has not been) a professional photographer, I think the smaller high-end consumer cameras are a better choice. Or, as I explained above, the new Pro Pentax K-7 for a bit more money is the way to go.

As pointed out in another post, the new Canon is not that friendly for dedicated video use. There are a lot of hassles and a lot of video shooting features missing.

I think the HM100 and a $400-800 still camera is the way to go. In many cases, the consumer point-and-shoot cameras make better pictures than the top pro cameras a few years ago.

Bottom line: What is your priority, video or still photography? How much still photo experience with pro DSLR gear do you have? How much gear do you want to carry around? How much of the inconvenience of a DSLR system do you want to build into your shooting style.

Shoot video and make it easy to take some stills now. Upgrade to a full blown DSLR system when and if you are ready.

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Alex Humphrey

Kaushik. Well I don't have either but I have read lots of reviews of the Canon as well as the Nikon competition. The consensus is that the canon and nikons are great cameras, that now offer some HD work. But they are impractical to use for HD aquisition. Now if you think of it as you are out photographing, and suddenly you think 2 minutes of the stream and deer you are photographing could make a good clip for your HD doc you are working on, then yes you can shoot the video.. but you wouldn't want to go through the hoops of shooting much of it with the camera...

My thoughts? sell your HD7, get the HM100 and get a good canon/nikon digital camera if you don't have one. if you can swing the HD canon/nikon for not much more, then do it, you never know when you will want to capture some HD footage while photographing..

Alex Humphrey,

Thanks. Good idea. Well I do nnt have any Pro DSLR experiance, but I am confident, it will not take much for me, I am sure.

Ok, but I will keep HD7, and will buy HM100. But now I love S5Pro, so now question is that which should I select Fuji S5Pro or Fuji S100fs, I love Fuji cameras I already have FujiS9000.

I need two video cameras so I will keep HD7, customers only required DVDs of their work so I am fine with HD7, I am fully satiesfied with it.

So HM100, HD7 and now which DSLR?

Kaushik

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

If you are going to get the HM100 for sure, I think you might want to hold back on a top-0f-the-line BIG and HEAVY SLR, the lenses, etc.

Trying to do video and carry a full-size DSLR is not easy.

First question, how much experience do you have with still photography. If it is not a lot and you have not already been working with pro Canon DSLRs and have the lenses, I would stay away from it for now if your primary interest is video.

The smaller (and less expensive) options you have suggested make more sense. Even if you want to upgrade to a top full pro DSLR setup later, the smaller camera will still have a use.

As well, in 6 months, there's a good chance that there will be even more improvements on the pro DSLRs.

If you have no DSLR gear at this time and want a step-up from the consumer options into the pro world, the new Pentax K-7 is something to look at:
Pentax K-7 Hands-on Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
Besides being very reasonably priced, the smaller size, lighter weight, and much easier to use interface, make this camera ideal as a DSLR supplement to a videographer. (This camera also shoots video.)

A while back, working on a documentary, I suddenly needed to take some stills for a magazine. I bought the Pentax K-10, then the K-20 (still using), and it worked out well. Much lighter weight and some excellent lens choices. The new K-7 is even smaller, better designed, and a lot of improved features.

Now for full time photographer with very special and specific needs (like sports, etc.), I think the top-of-the line Canons (and maybe Nikon now) are necessary... with the considerable lens choices and other specialized features in the different models.

However, for someone whose primary interest is video and who is not (or has not been) a professional photographer, I think the smaller high-end consumer cameras are a better choice. Or, as I explained above, the new Pro Pentax K-7 for a bit more money is the way to go.

As pointed out in another post, the new Canon is not that friendly for dedicated video use. There are a lot of hassles and a lot of video shooting features missing.

I think the HM100 and a $400-800 still camera is the way to go. In many cases, the consumer point-and-shoot cameras make better pictures than the top pro cameras a few years ago.

Bottom line: What is your priority, video or still photography? How much still photo experience with pro DSLR gear do you have? How much gear do you want to carry around? How much of the inconvenience of a DSLR system do you want to build into your shooting style.

Shoot video and make it easy to take some stills now. Upgrade to a full blown DSLR system when and if you are ready.

Jack Walker,

Thanks and very well said. Yes, Canon's primery feature is still photo not video. I am not pro, I do not have any expe in DSLR, but I am not worry about it, I will be able to understand very fast, I am confident, not overconfident though.

Yes, after 6 months new camera with better features will be launched. You said aboot Pentax, I will soon read about it. But I love Fuji so what is your advise on FujiS5Pro & FujiS100fs, both are amazing, though S100fs is not pro.

HM100 will be good for me, I will keep HD7 for some time now. I am not pro, I want good video and still both. I am not sure whether you have gone through with my videos. I ivite you if you have not seen:

My profile on Vimeo; Kaushik on Vimeo

My latest Video: C. G. Road Walkers Day, "NO CAR DAY" on Vimeo

YouTube - Birthday Celebration in Atira

Street Dancer, New York on Vimeo

Vegetables & Flowers Maraket in Ahmedabad on Vimeo

Do not forget to see this slidshow: PHILIPS @ IFA 2008, Berlin on Vimeo

Ahmedabad, India on Vimeo

Kankaria Lake, Ahmedabad, December 2008 on Vimeo

And my only video (wedding) with Canon HV20: Just Married on Vimeo

Now please everybody give me friedly advice, how am I doing in videography? Suggestions and feedback are wellcome. Willl help me to do better.

PS: I am not pro. I learnt everything by my self.

Kaushik

[Jack Walker]

Originally Posted by Kaushik Parmar

Jack Walker,
Yes, after 6 months new camera with better features will be launched. You said aboot Pentax, I will soon read about it. But I love Fuji so what is your advise on FujiS5Pro & FujiS100fs, both are amazing, though S100fs is not pro.

Here is a review of the Fuji FujiS100fs
Digital Camera Resource Page Review: Fuji FinePix S100fs

I think this is the kind of camera you would be happiest with at this stage. The fixed lens eliminates a lot of problems when you are dealing with video primarily.

I can't say if this is the perfect camera for you. It seems to be out for over a year. I don't keep up with these cameras, but I know there are a couple of other good choices in this price range or maybe even a bit cheaper. However, it depends on what things you will be shooting. Do you need the very long zoom on this Fuji? And so forth. Basically, most of the name brand cameras today take great pictures in most reasonable circumstances.

The pro DSLR cameras from Nikon and Canon are huge and heavy, much more so than many people realize until they pic one up. They are not the kind of thing you just throw in the bag and take along on a video shoot. From that perspective, I think the Fuji or something similar is the way to go right now.

Here is another site that has a lot of info and reviews on cameras:
Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

Here is a review of the Fuji FujiS100fs
Digital Camera Resource Page Review: Fuji FinePix S100fs

I think this is the kind of camera you would be happiest with at this stage. The fixed lens eliminates a lot of problems when you are dealing with video primarily.

I can't say if this is the perfect camera for you. It seems to be out for over a year. I don't keep up with these cameras, but I know there are a couple of other good choices in this price range or maybe even a bit cheaper. However, it depends on what things you will be shooting. Do you need the very long zoom on this Fuji? And so forth. Basically, most of the name brand cameras today take great pictures in most reasonable circumstances.

The pro DSLR cameras from Nikon and Canon are huge and heavy, much more so than many people realize until they pic one up. They are not the kind of thing you just throw in the bag and take along on a video shoot. From that perspective, I think the Fuji or something similar is the way to go right now.

Here is another site that has a lot of info and reviews on cameras:
Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ

Jack Walker,

Thank you for your advice and review link. I have gone through with it, yes, it is more than one year since FujiS100fs, lauched, and its superb camera. S5Pro is availabe here in India @ $1400 (body) and S100fs @ $550. Off course we can't compare this both camera. I would love to have S5Pro.

Kaushik

[Jack Walker]

Originally Posted by Kaushik Parmar

Jack Walker,

Thank you for your advice and review link. I have gone through with it, yes, it is more than one year since FujiS100fs, lauched, and its superb camera. S5Pro is availabe here in India @ $1400 (body) and S100fs @ $550. Off course we can't compare this both camera. I would love to have S5Pro.

Kaushik

The main thing to consider right now is whether you want a camera body and interchangeable lenses (the Fuji Pro) or a camera with a fixed lens (Fuji s100fs). If the fixed lens camera will cover your needs, it's much more convenient and easier to manage while dealing with the video camera than a body and interchangeable lenses. Until you get some experience shooting stills, especially if you main objective is video, I think the fixed lens camera will better suit your needs. And remember that the lens on the fixed camera is likely better quality than inexpensive lenses for the other camera. And if you get quality lenses for the body, you are looking at spending quite a few more dollars. And if you put a basic zoom on the pro body and leave it there, you're not gaining anything by having interchangeable lenses. And to finish my take on the subject, shooting video and dealing with a DSLR and several lenses all at once is quite an uncomfortable juggling act. Likely both the video and the stills will suffer.

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

The main thing to consider right now is whether you want a camera body and interchangeable lenses (the Fuji Pro) or a camera with a fixed lens (Fuji s100fs). If the fixed lens camera will cover your needs, it's much more convenient and easier to manage while dealing with the video camera than a body and interchangeable lenses. Until you get some experience shooting stills, especially if you main objective is video, I think the fixed lens camera will better suit your needs. And remember that the lens on the fixed camera is likely better quality than inexpensive lenses for the other camera. And if you get quality lenses for the body, you are looking at spending quite a few more dollars. And if you put a basic zoom on the pro body and leave it there, you're not gaining anything by having interchangeable lenses. And to finish my take on the subject, shooting video and dealing with a DSLR and several lenses all at once is quite an uncomfortable juggling act. Likely both the video and the stills will suffer.

Thanks. I agreed what you have said. But is it justify to pay three time more to get good pictures? Is there any huge difference between S5Pro and S100fs, in terms of result? I have seen stunning pictures from S5Pro, and S100fs is also good at $550. Its worthy to pay three times or just S100fs would be good?

Kaushik