720P30 capture issues with new MacBookPro+FCStudio2

[Sharon Pieczenik]

So I have an edit due July 31st and once again I am thoroughly stressed out. I was told that the new MacBook Pro, in conjunction with the new Studio 2, would most probably fix my capture problems. However, it does not.

I shot with a JVC HD110U in 720p 30fps. I am using the BR-HD50 deck. I tried using the HDV 720p 29.97fps codec AND the AIC codec to capture. They both have subclipping issues with the capture that in no way correlate to the camera being turned on and off (or the record button being pushed on or off). The tape stock was top of the line.

Anyone, can you tell me if there is a fix or is the answer the ridiculous workaround with DVHCap, etc? I am at my wits end. I need some honest answers. Even if you don't know, that is answer enough for me.

Help Me,
Sharon

[Tim Dashwood]

720P30 has always worked and should give you no problems at all, so there must be something wrong.

Some things to try (one at a time to eliminate the culprit.)

-Clean the heads with a head cleaning cassette (JVC)

-Check the firmware version of the BR-HD50 (STOP + MENU) The latest is v1.08

-Try setting your scratch disk to the Macintosh HD (internal), capture, and then switch it back to an external FW

-Try capturing from the camera instead of the deck

-Try a different firewire cable

-Create a brand new User (call it something like Final Cut Editor), restart, and login as the new user

-Expand the RAM to at least 2GB

-Try capturing with iMovie (AIC)

If none of those solved the problem then clean the heads of the camera, shoot some more footage on a brand new tape and capture that.

[Sharon Pieczenik]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

720P30 has always worked and should give you no problems at all, so there must be something wrong.

Some things to try (one at a time to eliminate the culprit.)

-Clean the heads with a head cleaning cassette (JVC)

-Check the firmware version of the BR-HD50 (STOP + MENU) The latest is v1.08

-Try setting your scratch disk to the Macintosh HD (internal), capture, and then switch it back to an external FW

-Try capturing from the camera instead of the deck

-Try a different firewire cable

-Create a brand new User (call it something like Final Cut Editor), restart, and login as the new user

-Expand the RAM to at least 2GB

-Try capturing with iMovie (AIC)

If none of those solved the problem then clean the heads of the camera, shoot some more footage on a brand new tape and capture that.

Heads Clean
Firmware of deck is updated
Different firewire had been used
I guess I can set the scratch to internal but not sure how that should affect anything
I'll try the new user thing but still don't think why that I would help
My Ram is 4GB
I tried AIC on final cut - sad if I would have to use iMovie after that much money spent

I thank you for your ideas. I'll try the ones that I haven't I guess, but I would love to know the reasoning behind them before I spend lots of time on them.

Cheers,
Sharon

[Tim Dashwood]

My suggestions aren't designed as solutions, but instead a means to determine where the problem is.

720P30 has worked since FCP version 5.0 was released, so there should be no compatibility issues.

I wanted you to test the internal drive capturing capabilities to see if the external drive was creating a bottleneck on the firewire input. If it is, you may want to try connecting the drive to the FW800 port instead.

Starting a fresh user profile should eliminate any third party or startup item conflicts/apps that steal processor cycles.

[Sharon Pieczenik]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

My suggestions aren't designed as solutions, but instead a means to determine where the problem is.

720P30 has worked since FCP version 5.0 was released, so there should be no compatibility issues.

I wanted you to test the internal drive capturing capabilities to see if the external drive was creating a bottleneck on the firewire input. If it is, you may want to try connecting the drive to the FW800 port instead.

Starting a fresh user profile should eliminate any third party or startup item conflicts/apps that steal processor cycles.

I am actually connecting the laptop to the external lacie harddrive on the FW800 of both the laptop and the harddrive. So probably not the bottleneck problem.

The user profile is interesting? How do I go about it?

I was just asking for explanations of why to do things so I can understand all this better and one day not have to ask someone else for answers when troubleshooting.

I am just so confused that 720p30fps doesn't work with me. I heard that it is fine, that is why I switched from 24fps. But the laptop is new (top of the line), the software is new (top of the line), the harddrive is new (top of the line)...I am soooo confused.

I'll try some more things out tomorrow. If I still have issues would it be best to call JVC, or final cut people for help?

Do you mind keeping an eye out for any posting questions of mine the next few days? My situation is under a mad time pressure.

Thank You for Your Help,
Sharon

[Sharon Pieczenik]

Hi Forum,

I just want to know if I am the only person out here who has subclipping problems still with 720p30fps with final cut (and I do have the latest Studio 2 and the latest 4GB MacBook Pro).

I have been told that there is no problem with 30fps since Final Cut 5. I want to know if that is true for everyone because then it really must be in my gear. But if there are others out there with the problem, I will still consider that this is a JVC and Final Cut problem.

Thanks,
Sharon

[Sharon Pieczenik]

Update...took same tape which is one interview without starts and stops and captured it using camera instead of deck. I STILL HAD SUBCLIPPING ISSUES. Yikes. And the subclipping happens in different places than when capturing from the deck.

Now I am trying to capture from my camera into the MacHD instead of an external harddrive. If it goes well, then maybe the issue is a bottlenecking at the firewire from the laptop to the external harddrive.

Will keep those who care up to date. Maybe this will help someone else out there...who knows...maybe not.

[Sharon Pieczenik]

Another Update...

tried capturing from camera to MacHD and not external harddrive...NO GO...MORE SUBCLIPPING. So the problem is probably not a bottleneck firewire problem.

Any more suggestions?

[Drew Curran]

Sharon
I never had this problem in the beginning and wondered what everyone was talking about. I thought I was one of the fortunate people or that everyone was doing something wrong.

And then it went pear shaped... I was asked to film a friends wedding cerimony and shot it in HDV25p and captured it using FCP 5.1.2 in native HDV 25p (used easy setup). I then noticed that every now and then there was a break of a few seconds - at least 2 during the vows. Of couse I had not stopped recording then. I realised I had the same problem I'd read about on these forums!

Having previously read up on the DVHSCap/Mpeg Streamclip workaround, I captured the whole shoot again using this method and had no breaks whatsoever and edited in AIC in FCP wh ithout any further problems.

I've come to the conclusion that its related to capturing long form recordings with FCP, as previously eveything worked 100% when all I was recording was little 3 or 4 minute clips. Its like FCP comes up for air, and that causes a split or there may be a blip in the firewire stream, or even a very slight problem with the tape (I've always used ProHD tapes) and cleaned the heads regularly. I don't know.

DVHScap has never gave me this problem, and in fact i always use this method as I'd prefare to edit using AIC as its much faster than HDV on my aging G5 powermac.

I don't think there is an anwser to this FCP catpure problem. None of the windows NLE's seem to report this problem. Only when Apple and JVC come up with a fix will the problem go away IMHO.

Sorry this hasn't provided the answers to your problems Sharon, I just thought you'd be glad to hear you are not alone.

Drew

[David Scattergood]

I've come to the conclusion that its related to capturing long form recordings with FCP, as previously eveything worked 100% when all I was recording was little 3 or 4 minute clips. Its like FCP comes up for air, and that causes a split or there may be a blip in the firewire stream, or even a very slight problem with the tape (I've always used ProHD tapes) and cleaned the heads regularly. I don't know.

I've just captured 5 hours worth of footage (over 5 tapes one for each seperate performance/sequence) and it ran through the tape with no breaks at all. However this was shot in SD 25p and not 720p...I look forward to fun and games with that format via FCP/JVC. I'll be sure to report back with the results.
Drew - I understood it that the 720p25 format cannot use AIC (HDV - Apple Intermediate Code 1080i60, 1080i50, 720p30)??

[Drew Curran]

Originally Posted by David Scattergood

Drew - I understood it that the 720p25 format cannot use AIC (HDV - Apple Intermediate Code 1080i60, 1080i50, 720p30)??

David

I use Mpeg Streamclip to convert the M2T file, exporting to Quicktime setting it to 25fps and AIC codec. In FCP in sequence settings I set it manually the render codec to AIC, size to 1280x720p and 25fps. This seems to work. (I'm not at my FCP setup at the moment so I'm not 100% sure of the exact settings)

Drew

[Kennedy Maxwell]

Sharon -
You are not the only person with capture problems. Since switching to JVC PRO tape and using a BR-HD50 for playback rather than the camera I haven't had any problems. I feel that the tape is a major source of problems as well as a more stable playback thru the BR-HD50.
At any rate, I haven't had any capture problems since these changes. I am using the JVC HD100 camera and FCP 5.01.
Good luck.
Ken

[David Scattergood]

Originally Posted by Drew Curran

David

I use Mpeg Streamclip to convert the M2T file, exporting to Quicktime setting it to 25fps and AIC codec. In FCP in sequence settings I set it manually the render codec to AIC, size to 1280x720p and 25fps. This seems to work. (I'm not at my FCP setup at the moment so I'm not 100% sure of the exact settings)

Drew

Ah ok - I thought AIC was 'forbidden' for us in PAL land...interesting.
I'll take a whirl on FCP later and see if that's another available option Drew.
Cheers.

[Dave Beaty]

Re takes splitting into multiple clips on capture.

I did extensive testing with Final Cut Pro 5.1.4 and tapes shot in 720p30 via two Mac systems and two BR-HD50 decks using various tape stocks. What I found most interesting was that the sustained speed of the hard drive had almost EVERYTHING to do with clips splitting in the middle of the take.

Using the Internal hard drive as capture scratch was absolutlely terrible in this regard. I was getting splits every few seconds on a Mac Pro. When I switched to an external firewire 800 drive, no more splits.

So, aside from updates, patches, tape brands and timecode settings, oh and firmware flashes....the drive you are digitizing too makes all the difference. Try it.

Dave Beaty

[George Strother]

"I am actually connecting the laptop to the external lacie harddrive on the FW800 of both the laptop and the harddrive. So probably not the bottleneck problem."

Since Sharon is already capturing to a Firewire 800 drive, changing to one isn't going to help unless the first one is bad.

Or too full. What percentage of free space do you have on the LaCie? If it is less than 30 - 35%, you are likely to get slow capture speeds, causing the problems Dave has observed.