HD200 field monitor question at DVinfo.net

Eric Gulbransen · June 26th, 2007, 04:17 PM

In the true spirit of the saying, "One step forward, two steps back" I recently learned a valuable lesson (Dvinfo.net lesson #273-A). "Before you can run, you first need to walk. But in order to walk well, you really need a monitor."

I'm struggling. I can't set backfocus reliably and I'm not getting the tack sharp images that I see others putting up on this forum. For what I plan to shoot I won't have a crew, and most times I won't have ac power so I need something small(ish).

Can someone who has experience please tell me if any of these monitors will give me a reliable window to focus from? Or is this just not realistic.. I've researched the hell out of myself on this subject/forum. Probably too much in fact. I'm feeling faint and yet somehow I still don't know which one to get.

And please don't hesitate to suggest something less expensive (please) that might also do the trick (possibly the Nebtek?).

7.0" Marshall V-R70P-HDA, 800X480 "Dots" 1.2 million RGB pixels
http://lcdracks.com/monitors/vr70phda.html

8.4" Marshall V-R84DP-HDA, 800X600 "Dots" 1.44 million RGB pixels http://lcdracks.com/monitors/v-r84dp-hda.htm

9.0" Sony LMD-9020, 640X480 (VGA)
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...20131&id=82306

Thanks in advance

Boyd Ostroff · June 26th, 2007, 04:36 PM

Hi Eric. Please visit our monitors forum here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=112

There's a lot of discussion of small LCD monitors there; for example here are a couple good threads:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=94936
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91877

Eric Gulbransen · June 26th, 2007, 05:32 PM

Thanks Boyd but I've already been there and read them. I know the routine - search, search, read, read, then if you're still confused, post. That's what brought me here, to be specific. One post begins with an HD100 field monitoring question about spending $300 - which brings up TV monitoring solutions - then you bring up the Delvcam - then somebody else shoots it down. Three posts later and we're talking about the Z1.

Sorry but I'm easily confused and I'd like to be sure before I drop $2,000. That's a lot of hours for me.

My hope was that somebody who has this camera and has any of these monitors could tell me if I'll be able to focus with them. Accurately.

Sincere thanks for the links Boyd.

Boyd Ostroff · June 26th, 2007, 06:55 PM

I looked at every little screen I could find at NAB because it's something that's on my wishlist as well. Frankly I came away rather disillusioned. The nicer ones are definitely sexy, but the resolution is still way too low. One of the nice ones (Marshall I think) was mounted on a Z1 and I'm very familiar with that camera so I know what to expect. I kept comparing the image on the 8" LCD to the built-in Z1 LCD. It was a little better, but not a whole lot... just bigger. I guess it would help focus, but I didn't think it would make all that big a difference.

The Panasonic 8" was a real standout however, and I was later surprised to find it was only 800x480 like the others. Evidently they have a much nicer scaler though. But once you get batteries, etc. I think you're into as much as $4,000 there. And you still won't have even 25% of the pixels in a full HD image. That monitor does have a function for pixel to pixel mapping of the center of the image however (sort of a zoom mode) which is a great feature.

Personally I'm going to sit this out for a little while until I really need a small monitor. Hopefully prices will fall and pixel counts will rise in the future. And as you say, $2,000 is a lot of money...

Eric Gulbransen · June 26th, 2007, 09:36 PM

Thank you Boyd. Perhaps that was the most helpful post of all, to me. Now I understand why even with all the research, I still had no clear answer. Could be that there isn't one - yet. I think I'll wait too...

Bill Ravens · June 27th, 2007, 06:25 AM

I've had pretty good luck setting focus on a widescreen lcd monitor I found at Sam's Club. The Samsung 205BW has a native resolution good enough for your JVC camera, and it's cheap....$250.

Paul Jefferies · June 27th, 2007, 11:52 AM

I have the Marshall 70HDA and have never had a shot out of focus when I use the monitor (whereas I have had some soft shots even when using the "focus assist" on the camera) for information, I have a JVC HD101 and monitor using the HD component outputs. I don't have a 35mm adaptor at present so I can't comment if it is suitable for that purpose. I also use the IDX batteries so the marshall's built in IDX adaptor is a useful feature. If you want to pay for an all expenses trip from London then I'll willingly bring the monitor along so you can try it out!

Chiayi Fun · June 28th, 2007, 10:05 AM

http://www.dvworld.com.tw/forum/dvfo...threadid=61990

ERG 8.4" HD LCD Monitor

David Scattergood · June 28th, 2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

I looked at every little screen I could find at NAB because it's something that's on my wishlist as well. Frankly I came away rather disillusioned. The nicer ones are definitely sexy, but the resolution is still way too low. One of the nice ones (Marshall I think) was mounted on a Z1 and I'm very familiar with that camera so I know what to expect. I kept comparing the image on the 8" LCD to the built-in Z1 LCD. It was a little better, but not a whole lot... just bigger. I guess it would help focus, but I didn't think it would make all that big a difference.

The Panasonic 8" was a real standout however, and I was later surprised to find it was only 800x480 like the others. Evidently they have a much nicer scaler though. But once you get batteries, etc. I think you're into as much as $4,000 there. And you still won't have even 25% of the pixels in a full HD image. That monitor does have a function for pixel to pixel mapping of the center of the image however (sort of a zoom mode) which is a great feature.

Personally I'm going to sit this out for a little while until I really need a small monitor. Hopefully prices will fall and pixel counts will rise in the future. And as you say, $2,000 is a lot of money...

I could really do with one also. Boyd - how do you cope with the back focus adjustment (using say a siemans chart) without a larger screen....I've got pretty good eyesight but full zoom out on the chart (from 2/3m) I can barely see the centre of the chart.

[QUPTE]I have the Marshall 70HDA and have never had a shot out of focus when I use the monitor (whereas I have had some soft shots even when using the "focus assist" on the camera) for information, I have a JVC HD101 and monitor using the HD component outputs. I don't have a 35mm adaptor at present so I can't comment if it is suitable for that purpose. I also use the IDX batteries so the marshall's built in IDX adaptor is a useful feature. If you want to pay for an all expenses trip from London then I'll willingly bring the monitor along so you can try it out![/QUOTE]

Are these expensive Paul...and obviously available in the uk. It's not only focus I need to utilise a larger monitor but lighting control (shooting in a theatre this week from zoom out it's tough to see whether any of the faces might edge into blow out).
Cheers.

Eugen Oprina · June 28th, 2007, 12:57 PM

Soon JVC will release a 9 inch HD monitor.
Maybe is worth to wait.
Eugen

Boyd Ostroff · June 28th, 2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Scattergood

Boyd - how do you cope with the back focus adjustment (using say a siemans chart) without a larger screen

I think you may be confusing people in this thread... I have a Z1 so there's no backfocus to adjust...

David Scattergood · June 28th, 2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

I think you may be confusing people in this thread... I have a Z1 so there's no backfocus to adjust...

Ah, ok.
Apologies Boyd!

Eric Gulbransen · June 28th, 2007, 02:11 PM

I got an email from Chad Terpstra yesterday - I believe Chad was the one behind the camera for the recent "Saying Goodbye" Fountain sample video that the CineVera guys just did:
http://www.cineverapictures.com/clip...g_goodbye.html

He said he's gotten himself to the point where he actually CAN "Ensure sharpness" with the 7" Marshall on board, but that it took him a while to learn how. His suggestion was to use a large monitor as well for critical focus, especially in the beginning.

That ERG looks pretty clear and the specs on it seem unique. I did a search on this forum for it because my Japanese is a little rusty and found a thread about it from 05. More research lead to finding the price to be around three grand. I wonder what/when the JVC will be..

David, I'm with you on the backfocusing while using the viewfinder. Zoomed out everything looks in focus. I hooked the cam up to our TV once, just to be able to see things bigger. It helped me get closer but I'm sure it's still off.

Eric Gulbransen · June 28th, 2007, 08:45 PM

Holy shnikeys has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.bigmugsoftware.com/monitor/

I run a mac and have always understood, up until tonight, that using a mac laptop for a monitor is not an option. I'm anxious to try this because the laptop's already here and the software has a free trial along with it's already inexpensive price tag...

edit: Tried it and it works, although on this G4 there's a delay of about 5 seconds. They do say on the download page that you should have a G5 or later. Always something...

David Scattergood · June 29th, 2007, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Gulbransen

Holy shnikeys has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.bigmugsoftware.com/monitor/

I run a mac and have always understood, up until tonight, that using a mac laptop for a monitor is not an option. I'm anxious to try this because the laptop's already here and the software has a free trial along with it's already inexpensive price tag...

edit: Tried it and it works, although on this G4 there's a delay of about 5 seconds. They do say on the download page that you should have a G5 or later. Always something...

Interesting Eric. I haven't a laptop but for indoor shoots it might be possible to take along my 24" iMac??

June 26th, 2007, 04:17 PM	#1
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	HD200 field monitor question In the true spirit of the saying, "One step forward, two steps back" I recently learned a valuable lesson (Dvinfo.net lesson #273-A). "Before you can run, you first need to walk. But in order to walk well, you really need a monitor." I'm struggling. I can't set backfocus reliably and I'm not getting the tack sharp images that I see others putting up on this forum. For what I plan to shoot I won't have a crew, and most times I won't have ac power so I need something small(ish). Can someone who has experience please tell me if any of these monitors will give me a reliable window to focus from? Or is this just not realistic.. I've researched the hell out of myself on this subject/forum. Probably too much in fact. I'm feeling faint and yet somehow I still don't know which one to get. And please don't hesitate to suggest something less expensive (please) that might also do the trick (possibly the Nebtek?). 7.0" Marshall V-R70P-HDA, 800X480 "Dots" 1.2 million RGB pixels http://lcdracks.com/monitors/vr70phda.html 8.4" Marshall V-R84DP-HDA, 800X600 "Dots" 1.44 million RGB pixels http://lcdracks.com/monitors/v-r84dp-hda.htm 9.0" Sony LMD-9020, 640X480 (VGA) http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...20131&id=82306 Thanks in advance

June 28th, 2007, 08:45 PM	#14
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	Holy shnikeys has anyone seen this yet? http://www.bigmugsoftware.com/monitor/ I run a mac and have always understood, up until tonight, that using a mac laptop for a monitor is not an option. I'm anxious to try this because the laptop's already here and the software has a free trial along with it's already inexpensive price tag... edit: Tried it and it works, although on this G4 there's a delay of about 5 seconds. They do say on the download page that you should have a G5 or later. Always something... Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Eric Gulbransen; June 28th, 2007 at 10:27 PM.

June 26th, 2007, 04:36 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Hi Eric. Please visit our monitors forum here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=112 There's a lot of discussion of small LCD monitors there; for example here are a couple good threads: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=94936 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91877

June 26th, 2007, 05:32 PM	#3
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	Thanks Boyd but I've already been there and read them. I know the routine - search, search, read, read, then if you're still confused, post. That's what brought me here, to be specific. One post begins with an HD100 field monitoring question about spending $300 - which brings up TV monitoring solutions - then you bring up the Delvcam - then somebody else shoots it down. Three posts later and we're talking about the Z1. Sorry but I'm easily confused and I'd like to be sure before I drop $2,000. That's a lot of hours for me. My hope was that somebody who has this camera and has any of these monitors could tell me if I'll be able to focus with them. Accurately. Sincere thanks for the links Boyd.

June 26th, 2007, 06:55 PM	#4
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I looked at every little screen I could find at NAB because it's something that's on my wishlist as well. Frankly I came away rather disillusioned. The nicer ones are definitely sexy, but the resolution is still way too low. One of the nice ones (Marshall I think) was mounted on a Z1 and I'm very familiar with that camera so I know what to expect. I kept comparing the image on the 8" LCD to the built-in Z1 LCD. It was a little better, but not a whole lot... just bigger. I guess it would help focus, but I didn't think it would make all that big a difference. The Panasonic 8" was a real standout however, and I was later surprised to find it was only 800x480 like the others. Evidently they have a much nicer scaler though. But once you get batteries, etc. I think you're into as much as $4,000 there. And you still won't have even 25% of the pixels in a full HD image. That monitor does have a function for pixel to pixel mapping of the center of the image however (sort of a zoom mode) which is a great feature. Personally I'm going to sit this out for a little while until I really need a small monitor. Hopefully prices will fall and pixel counts will rise in the future. And as you say, $2,000 is a lot of money...

June 26th, 2007, 09:36 PM	#5
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	Thank you Boyd. Perhaps that was the most helpful post of all, to me. Now I understand why even with all the research, I still had no clear answer. Could be that there isn't one - yet. I think I'll wait too...

June 27th, 2007, 06:25 AM	#6
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I've had pretty good luck setting focus on a widescreen lcd monitor I found at Sam's Club. The Samsung 205BW has a native resolution good enough for your JVC camera, and it's cheap....$250.

June 27th, 2007, 11:52 AM	#7
Paul Jefferies Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Croydon, England Posts: 277	I have the Marshall 70HDA and have never had a shot out of focus when I use the monitor (whereas I have had some soft shots even when using the "focus assist" on the camera) for information, I have a JVC HD101 and monitor using the HD component outputs. I don't have a 35mm adaptor at present so I can't comment if it is suitable for that purpose. I also use the IDX batteries so the marshall's built in IDX adaptor is a useful feature. If you want to pay for an all expenses trip from London then I'll willingly bring the monitor along so you can try it out!

June 28th, 2007, 10:05 AM	#8
Chiayi Fun Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: taiwan Posts: 62	http://www.dvworld.com.tw/forum/dvfo...threadid=61990 ERG 8.4" HD LCD Monitor

June 28th, 2007, 12:57 PM	#10
Eugen Oprina Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bucharest Romania Posts: 221	Soon JVC will release a 9 inch HD monitor. Maybe is worth to wait. Eugen

June 28th, 2007, 02:11 PM	#13
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	I got an email from Chad Terpstra yesterday - I believe Chad was the one behind the camera for the recent "Saying Goodbye" Fountain sample video that the CineVera guys just did: http://www.cineverapictures.com/clip...g_goodbye.html He said he's gotten himself to the point where he actually CAN "Ensure sharpness" with the 7" Marshall on board, but that it took him a while to learn how. His suggestion was to use a large monitor as well for critical focus, especially in the beginning. That ERG looks pretty clear and the specs on it seem unique. I did a search on this forum for it because my Japanese is a little rusty and found a thread about it from 05. More research lead to finding the price to be around three grand. I wonder what/when the JVC will be.. David, I'm with you on the backfocusing while using the viewfinder. Zoomed out everything looks in focus. I hooked the cam up to our TV once, just to be able to see things bigger. It helped me get closer but I'm sure it's still off.