Buying an HDxxx a good idea? at DVinfo.net

Glen Vandermolen · May 20th, 2007, 09:27 AM

I've been frequenting these boards for a while now, and the information I've learned has been invaluable.

I've always liked the JVC line of HDV cameras because they're so much closer in configuration to broadcast-style camcorders that I'm used to. I like the removable lens, and all the manual controls. The company I work for has, among other cameras, a Sony Z1 and I can't stand the darn thing. It takes great HD video, but it's controls and menus are maddening. Give me a lens with clearly marked f-stops!

Now, I want to purchase my own camera, and I was leaning toward the JVC line. However, after reading about all the horror stories many of you on this board have had regarding workflow, I'm hesitant to go JVC. The company I work for is moving to G5 Macs with FCP 5.1.4. I'll be riding their backs and use FCP for my own projects on the side. If I went with, say, an HD250, it looks like I'll have many issues with NLE.

To you, the users of JVC ProHD, what is your honest recommendation to someone considering purchasing this system? Should I save a bit more (and go deeper in debt) and go Sony XDCAM HD? Will a Firestore fix all the NLE issues? Can the HDxxx live in harmony with FCP?

Tim Dashwood · May 20th, 2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

To you, the users of JVC ProHD, what is your honest recommendation to someone considering purchasing this system?

Test it yourself. Take it for a spin before you commit. This is my recommendation to anyone looking to buy any camera.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Should I save a bit more (and go deeper in debt) and go Sony XDCAM HD?

That is for you to decide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Will a Firestore fix all the NLE issues?

It will nullify FCP issues by directly recording 720P24, 25 & 30 to Quicktime HDV. Otherwise it records native m2t.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Can the HDxxx live in harmony with FCP?

Yes, it does in my production chain. (there is a much more complete 'grey area' answer in some other threads on this topic.)

Jack Walker · May 20th, 2007, 10:03 AM

I believe one needs to start with details on who will use the camera, how they will use the camera, what they will shoot, in what circumstances they will shoot, additonal equipment that will be used when shooting, the post workflow, and the final delivery and use of the footage.

Then each of the possible cameras need to be compared to this and a pros and cons list made for each.

I think the right camera will become obvious. While all the cameras produce excellent pictures, the cameras are radically different from each other when you get them in a shooting and production scenario.

Jon Jaschob · May 20th, 2007, 12:45 PM

I bought the HD 100a last year. I use PPRO2 with Aspect HD.
A few software bugs aside I have not had any problems with the camera or the workflow.....
Jon

Glen Vandermolen · May 21st, 2007, 05:29 PM

OK, now let's narrow the cameras to the 200 and 250. What is the benefit of the 250's HD/SD-SDI output? Is that more of a benefit to transmitting video, or a studio rig? I wouldn't need the studio configuration, but the time code in/out is nice. The 200 is a bit cheaper.
I got to demo a 250 today and the pics on an HD monitor were stunning! Even in low-level flourescent lighting, the amount of detail was incredible. Especially in 60p. I also hear FCP 6 should digitize the 720/60p video, with little issues. Let's hope.

Ben Lynn · May 21st, 2007, 08:12 PM

In my opinion, the HD-SDI out is worth the additional cost. There's a lot more professional support for HD-SDI than there is for analog component hd. If you're working in or with a broadcast studio then you'll need that connection option on a regular basis.

I also think that the 250 has added re-sale value because of the hd-sdi connectivity. I think that from an investment standpoint the 250 is worth the additional up front expense.

Both are great cameras but my money would go towards the 250 for the added value.

Ben

Glen Vandermolen · May 21st, 2007, 09:33 PM

Thanks, Ben. That's sound advice.

Vincent Mesman · May 22nd, 2007, 09:54 AM

HD-SDI is nice in a pro studio environment.
But do you have a mobile HD-SDI capture solution < $ 25.000 ?
If the answer is "no" (also for the next 5 years) go for the HD200.
I think current mpeg2/720p/4:2:0 camera's will be worth zero $ in 5 years.
Buy a new one with better specs after 5 years.
Vincent

Brian Luce · May 22nd, 2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Mesman

H
I think current mpeg2/720p/4:2:0 camera's will be worth zero $ in 5 years.
Buy a new one with better specs after 5 years.
Vincent

I don't agree. Only because I sold a DV500 after the HDV/HVX200 craze and it stil retained good value.

Sean Adair · May 25th, 2007, 07:30 AM

I went with the the 200 instead of the 250 since the price difference was significant, and I didn't havfe direct needs for the 250 features. HD-SDI is a great protocol, but the hardware associated with using it trivializes the price of the camera.... Certainly in a broadcast environment it could make sense. The Studio configuration as well. TC sync is nice, but not always essential. The 200 can perfectly sync TC with other ProHD cameras through FW. Also, with modern NLE systems, dealing with a small offset after doing a manual time of day sync is not a big deal for editing multicam.

Then again, my current impression is that the 250 might be available at a bigger discount than the 200 from your dealer. The 250 demos are turning up more often as well. I suspect the pricing difference is more based on market differentiation than the hardware cost. It really is a personal decision based on what the actual price difference is and your planned use of the camera - and that means immediate use practically, since with technology it usually doesn't pay to anticipate what you might want a year from now....

Glen Vandermolen · May 25th, 2007, 07:52 AM

I'm now leaning toward the HD200. In my case, I don't see a need for the added expense associated with HD/SDI. I won't use the camera for studio work. It may allow optimal data flow into an NLE, but there's no way I'll ever use my camera as an edit deck. Besides, JVC's running a pretty good rebate offer on the 200, so I might as well take advantage of it.
However, if there's a killer deal on a 250 out there, I could go either way.

May 20th, 2007, 09:27 AM	#1
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Buying an HDxxx a good idea? I've been frequenting these boards for a while now, and the information I've learned has been invaluable. I've always liked the JVC line of HDV cameras because they're so much closer in configuration to broadcast-style camcorders that I'm used to. I like the removable lens, and all the manual controls. The company I work for has, among other cameras, a Sony Z1 and I can't stand the darn thing. It takes great HD video, but it's controls and menus are maddening. Give me a lens with clearly marked f-stops! Now, I want to purchase my own camera, and I was leaning toward the JVC line. However, after reading about all the horror stories many of you on this board have had regarding workflow, I'm hesitant to go JVC. The company I work for is moving to G5 Macs with FCP 5.1.4. I'll be riding their backs and use FCP for my own projects on the side. If I went with, say, an HD250, it looks like I'll have many issues with NLE. To you, the users of JVC ProHD, what is your honest recommendation to someone considering purchasing this system? Should I save a bit more (and go deeper in debt) and go Sony XDCAM HD? Will a Firestore fix all the NLE issues? Can the HDxxx live in harmony with FCP?

May 25th, 2007, 07:30 AM	#10
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	I went with the the 200 instead of the 250 since the price difference was significant, and I didn't havfe direct needs for the 250 features. HD-SDI is a great protocol, but the hardware associated with using it trivializes the price of the camera.... Certainly in a broadcast environment it could make sense. The Studio configuration as well. TC sync is nice, but not always essential. The 200 can perfectly sync TC with other ProHD cameras through FW. Also, with modern NLE systems, dealing with a small offset after doing a manual time of day sync is not a big deal for editing multicam. Then again, my current impression is that the 250 might be available at a bigger discount than the 200 from your dealer. The 250 demos are turning up more often as well. I suspect the pricing difference is more based on market differentiation than the hardware cost. It really is a personal decision based on what the actual price difference is and your planned use of the camera - and that means immediate use practically, since with technology it usually doesn't pay to anticipate what you might want a year from now.... __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)

May 20th, 2007, 10:03 AM	#3
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	I believe one needs to start with details on who will use the camera, how they will use the camera, what they will shoot, in what circumstances they will shoot, additonal equipment that will be used when shooting, the post workflow, and the final delivery and use of the footage. Then each of the possible cameras need to be compared to this and a pros and cons list made for each. I think the right camera will become obvious. While all the cameras produce excellent pictures, the cameras are radically different from each other when you get them in a shooting and production scenario.

May 20th, 2007, 12:45 PM	#4
Jon Jaschob Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 232	I bought the HD 100a last year. I use PPRO2 with Aspect HD. A few software bugs aside I have not had any problems with the camera or the workflow..... Jon

May 21st, 2007, 05:29 PM	#5
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	OK, now let's narrow the cameras to the 200 and 250. What is the benefit of the 250's HD/SD-SDI output? Is that more of a benefit to transmitting video, or a studio rig? I wouldn't need the studio configuration, but the time code in/out is nice. The 200 is a bit cheaper. I got to demo a 250 today and the pics on an HD monitor were stunning! Even in low-level flourescent lighting, the amount of detail was incredible. Especially in 60p. I also hear FCP 6 should digitize the 720/60p video, with little issues. Let's hope.

May 21st, 2007, 08:12 PM	#6
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	In my opinion, the HD-SDI out is worth the additional cost. There's a lot more professional support for HD-SDI than there is for analog component hd. If you're working in or with a broadcast studio then you'll need that connection option on a regular basis. I also think that the 250 has added re-sale value because of the hd-sdi connectivity. I think that from an investment standpoint the 250 is worth the additional up front expense. Both are great cameras but my money would go towards the 250 for the added value. Ben

May 21st, 2007, 09:33 PM	#7
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Thanks, Ben. That's sound advice.

May 22nd, 2007, 09:54 AM	#8
Vincent Mesman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands, Europe Posts: 31	HD-SDI is nice in a pro studio environment. But do you have a mobile HD-SDI capture solution < $ 25.000 ? If the answer is "no" (also for the next 5 years) go for the HD200. I think current mpeg2/720p/4:2:0 camera's will be worth zero $ in 5 years. Buy a new one with better specs after 5 years. Vincent

May 25th, 2007, 07:52 AM	#11
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	I'm now leaning toward the HD200. In my case, I don't see a need for the added expense associated with HD/SDI. I won't use the camera for studio work. It may allow optimal data flow into an NLE, but there's no way I'll ever use my camera as an edit deck. Besides, JVC's running a pretty good rebate offer on the 200, so I might as well take advantage of it. However, if there's a killer deal on a 250 out there, I could go either way.