Progressive or interlaced at DVinfo.net

Luis Ventura · May 11th, 2007, 05:59 AM

Hi you all, i do need some help, i record all my footage with JVC GY-HD100 in HDV720 25p, and most of my work is social events and small comercials, as you know most of TV set's are interlaced, so my problem is how do i get a smooth image in an interlaced TV set with a recorded HDV720 25p footage. I work with PPRO 2.0, Matrox RTX2 and Encore 1.5. Thank you for your help.

best regards

Luis

Antony Michael Wilson · May 11th, 2007, 08:39 AM

I'd run a search on this topic on this board, if I were you. It's been covered in great detail many times.

Anyway, 25p has a certain look, as I'm sure you know. It's a low frame rate close to film (24p) so motion has an inherently jerky quality. There is not really anything substantial you can do to smooth out the motion captured at that frame rate. The simple answer to your question is to shoot SD interlaced (DV scanned at 625/50 or 525/60 in the case of this camera) or the SD 50p option or use the HD200 or HD250 to shoot 720p/50 or 60, depending on your needs. In addition, it might be worth looking at your shooting technique. 24p and 25p should be treated like film in terms of camera movement and capturing motion but with even greater care because of the massive depth of field in comparison to film, which will bring out all the motion jitter in the background.

Run that search for more comments!

Liam Hall · May 11th, 2007, 06:02 PM

Shoot progressive, edit interlaced. That's all there is to it.

Antony Michael Wilson · May 12th, 2007, 01:22 AM

I think the original post was about smooth motion and whether this could be achieved in post on low frame rate progressive footage rather than how simply to cut progressive footage in the NLE. Cutting progressive footage in an interlaced project/timeline isn't going to solve motion problems on anything other than applied motion effects/gfx - a credit roller would be an excellent case in point. Progressive footage that is interlaced after the fact will still look like progressive footage! If it's unpleasantly jerky, it will stay that way whether it's cut progressive or interlaced.

Luis, could you clarify. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Stephan Ahonen · May 12th, 2007, 03:11 AM

Antony's right... When the temporal resolution isn't there, you can't get it back. It's just like resizing standard def video up to HD res doesn't make it look like HD. You've got to acquire at the resolution that you want to deliver in or higher.

Liam Hall · May 12th, 2007, 04:02 AM

The best thing about these cameras is that they shoot progressive footage. It is important for people to understand that just because they need to deliver an interlaced video that it does not mean they have to shoot interlaced.

If you need the 'reality/news' look shoot interlaced. If you want something more film like, shoot progressive.

Antony and Stephan are right, in the sense that you can't 'smooth' progressive shot material to make it look like interlaced, but that is not to say that you can't shoot progressive and deliver interlaced. If all you are after is a simple workflow than there is loads of info on this site for that.

For small commercials and social events like Luis is interested in, my advice would be to shoot progressive and edit interlaced.

Hope that makes sense.

Liam.

Dennis Robinson · May 12th, 2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson

I'd run a search on this topic on this board, if I were you. It's been covered in great detail many times.

Anyway, 25p has a certain look, as I'm sure you know. It's a low frame rate close to film (24p) so motion has an inherently jerky quality. There is not really anything substantial you can do to smooth out the motion captured at that frame rate. The simple answer to your question is to shoot SD interlaced (DV scanned at 625/50 or 525/60 in the case of this camera) or the SD 50p option or use the HD200 or HD250 to shoot 720p/50 or 60, depending on your needs. In addition, it might be worth looking at your shooting technique. 24p and 25p should be treated like film in terms of camera movement and capturing motion but with even greater care because of the massive depth of field in comparison to film, which will bring out all the motion jitter in the background.

Run that search for more comments!

I agree 100%. I was really unhappy with the judder I was getting and felt that my camera was the problem till great people on this site told me I had to learn to shoot progressive like a film camera. I tried and tried and it took me many hours of practise, and now I love it. I shoot everything HDV 720/25 Pal. I compose my shots and am bewildered with the results. I had no idea I could get these type of images from a camera. It blows me away when i see my footage and I shoot 30 sec TV commercials and presentation videos for a living.

Guy Barwood · May 12th, 2007, 04:03 PM

Is you output currently HD?

If not you could always shoot in DV or 576 50p & edit in PAL DV.

Stephan Ahonen · May 12th, 2007, 06:23 PM

What you call the "interlaced" look is really just high temporal resolution. Shooting high fps progressive will give you that look too, and will easily down/crossconvert to an interlaced standard.

Luis Ventura · May 14th, 2007, 04:23 AM

Hi you all, thanks for all of your help, and sorry but only today i could have a look on my thread. I do think like you, progressive footage looks much better when properlly filmed then interlaced, and till now i had no complains, but it could be a way to get it close, and in case of a complain...

Best regards

Luis Ventura

Luis Ventura · May 14th, 2007, 04:29 AM

Sorry, but i forgot to anwser Barwood, and yes i still do my output in DVD, but i want to take the most of my camera in the original, even because in a fwee monthes i will get blue-ray and then i can re-edit, i already treid HDV50p and it was ok, but i had a lot of problems capturing .

best regards,

Luís Ventura

May 11th, 2007, 05:59 AM	#1
Luis Ventura New Boot Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Espinho Portugal Posts: 21	Progressive or interlaced Hi you all, i do need some help, i record all my footage with JVC GY-HD100 in HDV720 25p, and most of my work is social events and small comercials, as you know most of TV set's are interlaced, so my problem is how do i get a smooth image in an interlaced TV set with a recorded HDV720 25p footage. I work with PPRO 2.0, Matrox RTX2 and Encore 1.5. Thank you for your help. best regards Luis

May 11th, 2007, 06:02 PM	#3
Liam Hall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 969	Shoot progressive, edit interlaced. That's all there is to it. __________________ Writer-Director-DOP www.liamhall.net

May 12th, 2007, 04:02 AM	#6
Liam Hall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 969	The best thing about these cameras is that they shoot progressive footage. It is important for people to understand that just because they need to deliver an interlaced video that it does not mean they have to shoot interlaced. If you need the 'reality/news' look shoot interlaced. If you want something more film like, shoot progressive. Antony and Stephan are right, in the sense that you can't 'smooth' progressive shot material to make it look like interlaced, but that is not to say that you can't shoot progressive and deliver interlaced. If all you are after is a simple workflow than there is loads of info on this site for that. For small commercials and social events like Luis is interested in, my advice would be to shoot progressive and edit interlaced. Hope that makes sense. Liam. __________________ Writer-Director-DOP www.liamhall.net

May 11th, 2007, 08:39 AM	#2
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	I'd run a search on this topic on this board, if I were you. It's been covered in great detail many times. Anyway, 25p has a certain look, as I'm sure you know. It's a low frame rate close to film (24p) so motion has an inherently jerky quality. There is not really anything substantial you can do to smooth out the motion captured at that frame rate. The simple answer to your question is to shoot SD interlaced (DV scanned at 625/50 or 525/60 in the case of this camera) or the SD 50p option or use the HD200 or HD250 to shoot 720p/50 or 60, depending on your needs. In addition, it might be worth looking at your shooting technique. 24p and 25p should be treated like film in terms of camera movement and capturing motion but with even greater care because of the massive depth of field in comparison to film, which will bring out all the motion jitter in the background. Run that search for more comments!

May 12th, 2007, 01:22 AM	#4
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	I think the original post was about smooth motion and whether this could be achieved in post on low frame rate progressive footage rather than how simply to cut progressive footage in the NLE. Cutting progressive footage in an interlaced project/timeline isn't going to solve motion problems on anything other than applied motion effects/gfx - a credit roller would be an excellent case in point. Progressive footage that is interlaced after the fact will still look like progressive footage! If it's unpleasantly jerky, it will stay that way whether it's cut progressive or interlaced. Luis, could you clarify. Sorry if I misunderstood.

May 12th, 2007, 03:11 AM	#5
Stephan Ahonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	Antony's right... When the temporal resolution isn't there, you can't get it back. It's just like resizing standard def video up to HD res doesn't make it look like HD. You've got to acquire at the resolution that you want to deliver in or higher.

May 12th, 2007, 04:03 PM	#8
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Is you output currently HD? If not you could always shoot in DV or 576 50p & edit in PAL DV.

May 12th, 2007, 06:23 PM	#9
Stephan Ahonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	What you call the "interlaced" look is really just high temporal resolution. Shooting high fps progressive will give you that look too, and will easily down/crossconvert to an interlaced standard.

May 14th, 2007, 04:23 AM	#10
Luis Ventura New Boot Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Espinho Portugal Posts: 21	Hi you all, thanks for all of your help, and sorry but only today i could have a look on my thread. I do think like you, progressive footage looks much better when properlly filmed then interlaced, and till now i had no complains, but it could be a way to get it close, and in case of a complain... Best regards Luis Ventura

May 14th, 2007, 04:29 AM	#11
Luis Ventura New Boot Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Espinho Portugal Posts: 21	Sorry, but i forgot to anwser Barwood, and yes i still do my output in DVD, but i want to take the most of my camera in the original, even because in a fwee monthes i will get blue-ray and then i can re-edit, i already treid HDV50p and it was ok, but i had a lot of problems capturing . best regards, Luís Ventura