HDMI from HD110

Jim Andrada · September 11th, 2007, 06:58 PM

Bill, - if the analog out is so good, why does it look so bad after capture via a Blackmagic card? Unless their A to D is really bad, which I would tend to doubt) On the other hand, anything is possible.

I guess this all started as I was wondering whether capturing the analog (which would have as you say been at 10 bit 4,2,2) would yield better color than an upconverted 4,2,0 captured over firewire.

The pictures that were posted here however indicate otherwise.

Tis a mystery.

Steven Thomas · September 11th, 2007, 08:17 PM

I remember reading / hearing that component to SDI looks great out of the JVC HD100. This makes me believe that it's Blackmagic's A/D converters and/or analog circuitry.

Jim Andrada · September 11th, 2007, 08:37 PM

Well, I guess it's plausible. Anyone have better results with a different card?

I sent an e-mail to Blackmagic asking them why they thought the analog input would look so bad, but I never got a reply.

Maybe I should scratch them off my list!

Bill Ravens · September 11th, 2007, 11:08 PM

I think there's a lot of variables that get included in the workflow. I know that a helluva lot depends on the kind of display monitor you're looking at. Unless you've got an HD monitor, things will actually look worse on a standard NTSC monitor. Are you viewing 1280x420 or have you downconverted? What color map are you using rec 601 or rec 709?

And, what processing steps are you using to display after capture? Are you going straight to a playback software, or are you running thru an NLE? What are the default injest settings on the NLE? So much that can affect the final output that it's rerally hard to make a realistic conclusion.

Jim Andrada · September 12th, 2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Harvey

I did a test using Adobe CS3 to capture analog component 1280 x 720 8bit 60p through a BM studio card, and at the same time captured 30p to tape, them imported through 1394 port into Avid Liquid. The difference is very noticeable. I posted a mp4 file, because of file bandwidth issues, to show people what they can expect to get out of this combination. Even the HDV portion of the mp4 has more resolution then the analog component capture.

http://www.portstanleynews.com/TV/JVCTest.mp4

I will do another test with a Canon HV20 to check the difference of HDV vs HDMI

Bill,

I was referring to the example that Doug Harvey had posted for us a while back.

Bill Ravens · September 12th, 2007, 07:50 AM

For whatever it's worth, I sent an email to Blackmagic, asking what the A-D sampling rate was for their Intensity Pro bus card. They replied with this answer:
"Unfortunately, I don't have an exact specification but that it's using a new
analog design which is even better quality than all our previous products.
This analog design will be used in our new Multibridge Eclipse. Hope that
information helps a bit."

Why wouldn't they know the answer to this critical question? Implied message: Our A-D converter ain't that good?

Jim Andrada · September 12th, 2007, 09:37 AM

Bill,

Thanks for bugging them. I sent a couple of e-mails on the same subjec, even including a link to Doug's post, but no response at all.

I wonder, though, whether the Intensity Pro is newer than the Studio card - could be they meant to say that they've improved the A to D.

On the other hand - maybe the Tech SUpport folks just don't know! Or maybe nobody knows! Or maybe it isn't very good. In any event, paying the money for one without having a better idea of the quality doesn't sound too smart to me.

By the way, just noticed that you're in Santa Fe. My wife and I were there a few weeks ago for the opera. Very nice place.

Bill Ravens · September 12th, 2007, 10:01 AM

Jim...

Every software/hardware manufacturer builds their products out of commercially available micro-ships. Unless, of course, they make their own chips, which I HIGHLY doubt for places like BMD. This being the case, ANYONE who owns a BMD product can open the case(at the risk of voiding the warrantee, of course) and look at which A-D micro-chip BMD uses. Of course, the Intensity PCI bus card is plainly visible. A simple web search from the chip part number will produce the specs for that chip, including the sample rate. I find it VERY hard to believe they don't know what's in their box!

Yeppers, grew up in Tucson-town, tho'. My mom still lives in the Tucson foothills, out by Gates Pass.Went to college at the U of A.

Jim Andrada · September 12th, 2007, 10:46 AM

I actually thought about trying to find out the chip info, but I think the chip can be driven differently depending on what you want out of it. I know we use analog modules from Allegro to control the motors in our tape drives, but there is a lot of fooling around in the firmware that talks to the chip itself and in some cases we actually stick an additional chip in line with the Allegro module to mask some of its normal behavior from the firmware

Oh well we're getting way beyond my area of inexpertise.

We're in the foothills North of town - near Swan and Sunrise if you remember the area. We looked in the Gates Pass area when we moved here last year from the San Francisco area. So far we like it. I've been coming here for business since around 1978 so I had some idea of what it was like. My wife was a bit surprised to see a bobcat on our front steps the first week we were here. Not as bad as the mountain lion breaking into the jewelry store in the middle of Santa Fe a few weeks ago, though. Sure wish they had caught a video of the cat coming through the front door.

Steven Thomas · September 12th, 2007, 11:33 AM

Like Jim, I sent the same questions and link to this thread to Blackmagic about three weeks ago. No reply

I wish someone would chime in that actually owns the Intensity Pro and has used the component inputs. I want to use it and capture to Cineform from my HD100.

Some actual short, full rez samples would really help my decision.

BTW, I live one hour north of Tucson, Casa Grande, AZ

Bill Ravens · September 14th, 2007, 08:29 AM

Interesting info in this link:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=103540

Philippe Fayt · October 26th, 2007, 07:16 AM

Hi everyone,

Looking for some hints.

What actual benefits the BR-HD50 + HD-Connect MI (as a HDMI to HD-SDI converter from the BR-HD50) could give me compared to a HD-Connect SI converter between my GYHD201 and a NLE system equipped with i/o HD-SDI connectivity? Or shorter, what are the plus values of the BR-HD50 in a system like that, besides its playing/recording capabilities?

Thanks very much for your inputs.

Philippe

October 26th, 2007, 07:16 AM	#72
Philippe Fayt New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 20	Conversion HDV-HD-SDI Hi everyone, Looking for some hints. What actual benefits the BR-HD50 + HD-Connect MI (as a HDMI to HD-SDI converter from the BR-HD50) could give me compared to a HD-Connect SI converter between my GYHD201 and a NLE system equipped with i/o HD-SDI connectivity? Or shorter, what are the plus values of the BR-HD50 in a system like that, besides its playing/recording capabilities? Thanks very much for your inputs. Philippe

September 11th, 2007, 06:58 PM	#61
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Bill, - if the analog out is so good, why does it look so bad after capture via a Blackmagic card? Unless their A to D is really bad, which I would tend to doubt) On the other hand, anything is possible. I guess this all started as I was wondering whether capturing the analog (which would have as you say been at 10 bit 4,2,2) would yield better color than an upconverted 4,2,0 captured over firewire. The pictures that were posted here however indicate otherwise. Tis a mystery.

September 11th, 2007, 08:17 PM	#62
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I remember reading / hearing that component to SDI looks great out of the JVC HD100. This makes me believe that it's Blackmagic's A/D converters and/or analog circuitry.

September 11th, 2007, 08:37 PM	#63
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Well, I guess it's plausible. Anyone have better results with a different card? I sent an e-mail to Blackmagic asking them why they thought the analog input would look so bad, but I never got a reply. Maybe I should scratch them off my list!

September 11th, 2007, 11:08 PM	#64
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I think there's a lot of variables that get included in the workflow. I know that a helluva lot depends on the kind of display monitor you're looking at. Unless you've got an HD monitor, things will actually look worse on a standard NTSC monitor. Are you viewing 1280x420 or have you downconverted? What color map are you using rec 601 or rec 709? And, what processing steps are you using to display after capture? Are you going straight to a playback software, or are you running thru an NLE? What are the default injest settings on the NLE? So much that can affect the final output that it's rerally hard to make a realistic conclusion.

September 12th, 2007, 07:50 AM	#66
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	For whatever it's worth, I sent an email to Blackmagic, asking what the A-D sampling rate was for their Intensity Pro bus card. They replied with this answer: "Unfortunately, I don't have an exact specification but that it's using a new analog design which is even better quality than all our previous products. This analog design will be used in our new Multibridge Eclipse. Hope that information helps a bit." Why wouldn't they know the answer to this critical question? Implied message: Our A-D converter ain't that good?

September 12th, 2007, 09:37 AM	#67
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Bill, Thanks for bugging them. I sent a couple of e-mails on the same subjec, even including a link to Doug's post, but no response at all. I wonder, though, whether the Intensity Pro is newer than the Studio card - could be they meant to say that they've improved the A to D. On the other hand - maybe the Tech SUpport folks just don't know! Or maybe nobody knows! Or maybe it isn't very good. In any event, paying the money for one without having a better idea of the quality doesn't sound too smart to me. By the way, just noticed that you're in Santa Fe. My wife and I were there a few weeks ago for the opera. Very nice place.

September 12th, 2007, 10:01 AM	#68
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Jim... Every software/hardware manufacturer builds their products out of commercially available micro-ships. Unless, of course, they make their own chips, which I HIGHLY doubt for places like BMD. This being the case, ANYONE who owns a BMD product can open the case(at the risk of voiding the warrantee, of course) and look at which A-D micro-chip BMD uses. Of course, the Intensity PCI bus card is plainly visible. A simple web search from the chip part number will produce the specs for that chip, including the sample rate. I find it VERY hard to believe they don't know what's in their box! Yeppers, grew up in Tucson-town, tho'. My mom still lives in the Tucson foothills, out by Gates Pass.Went to college at the U of A.

September 12th, 2007, 10:46 AM	#69
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	I actually thought about trying to find out the chip info, but I think the chip can be driven differently depending on what you want out of it. I know we use analog modules from Allegro to control the motors in our tape drives, but there is a lot of fooling around in the firmware that talks to the chip itself and in some cases we actually stick an additional chip in line with the Allegro module to mask some of its normal behavior from the firmware Oh well we're getting way beyond my area of inexpertise. We're in the foothills North of town - near Swan and Sunrise if you remember the area. We looked in the Gates Pass area when we moved here last year from the San Francisco area. So far we like it. I've been coming here for business since around 1978 so I had some idea of what it was like. My wife was a bit surprised to see a bobcat on our front steps the first week we were here. Not as bad as the mountain lion breaking into the jewelry store in the middle of Santa Fe a few weeks ago, though. Sure wish they had caught a video of the cat coming through the front door.

September 12th, 2007, 11:33 AM	#70
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Like Jim, I sent the same questions and link to this thread to Blackmagic about three weeks ago. No reply I wish someone would chime in that actually owns the Intensity Pro and has used the component inputs. I want to use it and capture to Cineform from my HD100. Some actual short, full rez samples would really help my decision. BTW, I live one hour north of Tucson, Casa Grande, AZ

September 14th, 2007, 08:29 AM	#71
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Interesting info in this link: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=103540