Recording PAL DV with HD100U at DVinfo.net

Michael Hurley · May 3rd, 2007, 12:03 PM

Is there any way to change the settings on my HD100U to enable it to record Standard Definition PAL DV?

For example, is there anything accessible from the Advanced Menu to change this? I presume the camera is capable of shooting and recording both NTSC and PAL DV.

Thanks for the help.

Michael.

Sergio Barbosa · May 3rd, 2007, 02:07 PM

Hi Michael!
Yes, it's possible, just go to the menu, "video format", and then change the "frame rate" to 50/25. Then just pick the recording mode you'd like (PAL DV included).
Sergio.

Michael Hurley · May 3rd, 2007, 02:22 PM

That's great, Sergio. Thanks.

It's just that from what I could gather from the user manual the HD100U (US model) is only able to record 480 30i NTSC DV and not 576 25i PAL DV.

Can you clarify this for me? I am awaiting delivery of a HD100U in the next few days - hopefully tomorrow.

Thanks for the input.

Michael

Liam Hall · May 3rd, 2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Barbosa

Hi Michael!
Yes, it's possible, just go to the menu, "video format", and then change the "frame rate" to 50/25. Then just pick the recording mode you'd like (PAL DV included).
Sergio.

I think that is only possible on the 'E' Model.
I'm pretty sure the 'U' model will only record 576/50p, but it will do 720/25p.

Liam.

David Knaggs · May 3rd, 2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hurley

I presume the camera is capable of shooting and recording both NTSC and PAL DV.

Hi Michael.

Liam is correct.

According to page 62 of the camera manual:

U model
60/30 : Shoots at 480/60i, 480/60p, 720/30p.
50/25 : Shoots at 576/50p, 720/25p.
24 : Shoots at 480/24p (2:3:2:3 pulldown), 480/24p advance mode (2:3:3:2 pulldown), 720/24p.

E model
60/30 : Shoots at 480/60p, 720/30p.
50/25 : Shoots at 576/50i, 576/50p, 576/25p, 720/25p.
24 : Shoots at 720/24p.

So, unfortunately, your GY-HD100U camera is not able to shoot standard def PAL DV (576/50i).

If you need that interlaced look in 4:3, I can think of two possible solutions (in post):

a) Shoot 480/60i (NTSC) and convert to PAL in your NLE. (But it won't give great resolution as you are stretching 480 lines into 576.)

b) [Theoretical idea] If you shoot in 576/50p (which is recorded in MPEG-2), perhaps there is still a way to get 25 interlaced frames per second out of the footage if you could find a plug-in or NLE which can take the odd fields out of one frame and the even fields out of the next and combine them. Then you could theoretically get 576/50i out of your original 576/50p. But I freely admit that this idea is probably a total pipe dream. However, if I were stuck with a GY-HD100U camera in a PAL area, I'd leave no stone unturned to find if such an NLE or plug-in exists. There are many "de-intelacers" on the market, perhaps someone has come up with an "interlacer".

Of course, if you prefer a progressive look in PAL DV, then it's all pretty simple. Shoot 576/50p (and use something like MPEG Streamclip to make it 25 fps) or shoot 720p25 and blow it up (crop the sides) in your NLE to get it into 4:3 (this should give the best image of all because you are oversampling 720 horizontal lines into 576 lines).

Those are the only options I can think of. Good luck.

Jemore Santos · May 4th, 2007, 04:10 AM

Michael you can shoot in PAL DV from a HD100u camera, trust me I know, this is how you do it.

1. Go into menu - Video format
2. Change frame rate to 50/25 click execute, this should restart your camera
3. Go back to Video format
4. Change REC to DV-50i or DV25p depending in what you want, and click execute.

Bang, there you have it, 50i DV in NTSC camera, PAL cameras can also switch to NTSC rates (60Hz)

Sean Adair · May 4th, 2007, 07:32 AM

for the record, the HD200U/250U do not shoot at any 576 line format. However, 50p/25p at 720 are possible.
There is no problem and no deterioration (in many cases the best results in fact) in interlacing 50/60p progressive footage to 25i/30i.
Also downsizing 720p to SD size 480/576 will be as good or better than shooting natively at that resolution.
Most editors should be able to handle this workflow, although it can be messed up if handled improperly. There is some additional rendering time involved as well.

Michael Hurley · May 4th, 2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jemore Santos

Michael you can shoot in PAL DV from a HD100u camera, trust me I know, this is how you do it.

1. Go into menu - Video format
2. Change frame rate to 50/25 click execute, this should restart your camera
3. Go back to Video format
4. Change REC to DV-50i or DV25p depending in what you want, and click execute.

Bang, there you have it, 50i DV in NTSC camera, PAL cameras can also switch to NTSC rates (60Hz)

Hi Jemore,

Thanks for the feedback.

Unfortunately, I have tried this but once I change to 50/25 the camera only offers 576 50p (HDV) and full 720 HDV, no DV . Obviously, it does offer DV - 30i for 60/30 framerates.

Am I doing something wrong?

Is there settings in the advanced menu to allow me access PAL DV?

Thanks in advance.

Michael

Jemore Santos · May 4th, 2007, 05:36 PM

Yes when you change over the rate to 50/25 in the record section you will get HDV-SD50p play around with REC til you get 50i, I have the the HD100u and it works for me.
If it doesn't work please reply.

Michael Hurley · May 4th, 2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jemore Santos

Yes when you change over the rate to 50/25 in the record section you will get HDV-SD50p play around with REC til you get 50i, I have the the HD100u and it works for me.
If it doesn't work please reply.

Hi Jemore,

I can only get HDV-HD25P or HDV-SD50P to appear under REC.

Any idea how you got DV-50i to appear on your 100U?

Thanks.

Tim Dashwood · May 4th, 2007, 06:08 PM

As far as I know you CANNOT record PAL DV on a HD100U. I've been asked to shoot PAL for European destined EPKs and I was forced to shoot 720P25 and downconvert to PAL.

Michael Hurley · May 4th, 2007, 06:30 PM

Thanks, Tim.

That was my initial understanding also, ie. the PAL formats you could shoot on a HD100U are HDV based only - 720P25 and 576P50.

I was hoping someone had found a workaround to acquire PAL DV directly (50i to tape) perhaps through changes to the firmware, etc.

Hopefully, Jemore can let us know how he enabled it on his 100U.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Michael.

Jemore Santos · May 4th, 2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

As far as I know you CANNOT record PAL DV on a HD100U. I've been asked to shoot PAL for European destined EPKs and I was forced to shoot 720P25 and downconvert to PAL.

Tim, this maybe the difference between the cameras in the US and the ones in Japan, they both play NTSC and I had thought there was no HD100j but there might just a camera, I am able to switch between NTSC and PAL DV modes.

Tim Dashwood · May 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM

That's super-interesting.

Do you have a 7.5% setup option in NTSC mode?

If not, then maybe there is a "universal" Japanese version for NTSC-J and PAL.

Jemore Santos · May 4th, 2007, 07:09 PM

Wow, so there is an actual "J" model, I seriously thought my camera was a "U" model even though the logos on my camera actually say "Victor" instead of JVC.
7.5%? whats that?
I have always had the ability to shoot in both full 60Hz and 50Hz modes, HD, SD and in DV. Recently I upgraded the firmware from work, but is exactly the same in function.

May 3rd, 2007, 12:03 PM	#1
Michael Hurley New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 24	Recording PAL DV with HD100U Is there any way to change the settings on my HD100U to enable it to record Standard Definition PAL DV? For example, is there anything accessible from the Advanced Menu to change this? I presume the camera is capable of shooting and recording both NTSC and PAL DV. Thanks for the help. Michael.

May 4th, 2007, 04:10 AM	#6
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	Michael you can shoot in PAL DV from a HD100u camera, trust me I know, this is how you do it. 1. Go into menu - Video format 2. Change frame rate to 50/25 click execute, this should restart your camera 3. Go back to Video format 4. Change REC to DV-50i or DV25p depending in what you want, and click execute. Bang, there you have it, 50i DV in NTSC camera, PAL cameras can also switch to NTSC rates (60Hz) __________________ "eyes through a digital world"

May 4th, 2007, 07:32 AM	#7
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	for the record, the HD200U/250U do not shoot at any 576 line format. However, 50p/25p at 720 are possible. There is no problem and no deterioration (in many cases the best results in fact) in interlacing 50/60p progressive footage to 25i/30i. Also downsizing 720p to SD size 480/576 will be as good or better than shooting natively at that resolution. Most editors should be able to handle this workflow, although it can be messed up if handled improperly. There is some additional rendering time involved as well. __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon) Last edited by Sean Adair; May 4th, 2007 at 07:37 AM. Reason: damn return key

May 4th, 2007, 05:36 PM	#9
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	Yes when you change over the rate to 50/25 in the record section you will get HDV-SD50p play around with REC til you get 50i, I have the the HD100u and it works for me. If it doesn't work please reply. __________________ "eyes through a digital world"

May 4th, 2007, 06:08 PM	#11
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	As far as I know you CANNOT record PAL DV on a HD100U. I've been asked to shoot PAL for European destined EPKs and I was forced to shoot 720P25 and downconvert to PAL. __________________ Tim Dashwood

May 3rd, 2007, 02:07 PM	#2
Sergio Barbosa Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 140	Hi Michael! Yes, it's possible, just go to the menu, "video format", and then change the "frame rate" to 50/25. Then just pick the recording mode you'd like (PAL DV included). Sergio.

May 3rd, 2007, 02:22 PM	#3
Michael Hurley New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 24	That's great, Sergio. Thanks. It's just that from what I could gather from the user manual the HD100U (US model) is only able to record 480 30i NTSC DV and not 576 25i PAL DV. Can you clarify this for me? I am awaiting delivery of a HD100U in the next few days - hopefully tomorrow. Thanks for the input. Michael

May 4th, 2007, 06:30 PM	#12
Michael Hurley New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cork, Ireland Posts: 24	Thanks, Tim. That was my initial understanding also, ie. the PAL formats you could shoot on a HD100U are HDV based only - 720P25 and 576P50. I was hoping someone had found a workaround to acquire PAL DV directly (50i to tape) perhaps through changes to the firmware, etc. Hopefully, Jemore can let us know how he enabled it on his 100U. Thanks everyone for your input. Michael.

May 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM	#14
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	That's super-interesting. Do you have a 7.5% setup option in NTSC mode? If not, then maybe there is a "universal" Japanese version for NTSC-J and PAL. __________________ Tim Dashwood

May 4th, 2007, 07:09 PM	#15
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	Wow, so there is an actual "J" model, I seriously thought my camera was a "U" model even though the logos on my camera actually say "Victor" instead of JVC. 7.5%? whats that? I have always had the ability to shoot in both full 60Hz and 50Hz modes, HD, SD and in DV. Recently I upgraded the firmware from work, but is exactly the same in function. __________________ "eyes through a digital world"