Companion to HD200 at DVinfo.net

Guy Barwood · April 16th, 2007, 06:23 PM

Looks like your HD200 companion could be a Sony...

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/16/s...der/1#c4502235

720 60p with 3x1/2" sensors, but of course not a removable lens, but it does look to have real manual controls.

Lets hope JVC do show us something new at NAB. Got to love this time of year.

Justin Ferar · April 16th, 2007, 10:12 PM

That is something if it's not balsacam. Half inch imagers in that small of a body? Wow.

Stephan Ahonen · April 16th, 2007, 10:23 PM

Meh, it's a handycam. No thanks.

Guy Barwood · April 16th, 2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen

it's a handycam

Thats the point. As a handycam it is a great form factor as a companion to the HD200.

Stephan Ahonen · April 17th, 2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

Thats the point. As a handycam it is a great form factor as a companion to the HD200.

Why? The ENG form factor of the HDxx0 is one of its biggest selling points. Why anyone would actually want to shoot video with a handycam (much less for a paying client!) is beyond me.

Guy Barwood · April 17th, 2007, 12:32 AM

You seriously think the ENG form factor is the best form factor for every shooting requirement? Wow, we are clearly going to have to agree to disagree.

If you look at the image you will see the buttons that are visible are in the general ENG layout, it just isn't sholder mount.

Stephan Ahonen · April 17th, 2007, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

You seriously think the ENG form factor is the best form factor for every shooting requirement?

Not every requirement, no. Only all the ones where you're operating the camera by hand. Remote and POV applications of course can get away with a different form factor, preferably one as small as possible. But unless this camera has external connections for operating it remotely, it'd be pretty useless for that too.

Werner Wesp · April 17th, 2007, 02:57 AM

The formfactor is fine - until you want to shoot handheld. I pass...

(1/2 inch imagers would be a big deal - but it know from experience it is better to wait and hear it actually confirmed that it will be 1/2 inch, and not 1/3 or even 1/4. And if it would be around 7K and up, I'd really like to have a manual lens for that price. 1/2 inch with a fixed lens takes the advantage of 1/2 inch imagers a little bit away...)

Guy Barwood · April 17th, 2007, 05:41 AM

From the look of the lens controls it is a fully manual lens (with full auto options). The Iris and Zoom controls look just like a normal manual lens controls.

It is just fixed, not removable.

I am sure it will have some form or remote as all controls have auto options (so focus, iris and zoom are all powered). Possibly the standard remote controller that works on most Sony handycams?

Werner Wesp · April 17th, 2007, 05:52 AM

I should have written I don't like servo lenses... full manual controls are on all of them, but the focus is always servo (racking focus is near impossible)...

The problem with all of these is the fact that they want to cram too much in a handheld formfactor. By now it becomes so bulky and heavy, it isn't really that suited to handheld use anymore (the HVX200 has the same problem). The JVC 'compact' form factor was a winning shot (the Canon XL was too front heavy). The only advantage to the so-called handhelds is that they are still smaller and not so heavy - which means you can work with a smaller and cheaper tripod and you can also get away with a small and cheap steadicamsystem. As soon as you really want to use these cams handheld, they're actually not that 'handy'... (hence the aftermarket in shoulder mounts for the HVX, DVX, FX1, ...)

Stephan Ahonen · April 17th, 2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werner Wesp

I should have written I don't like servo lenses... full manual controls are on all of them, but the focus is always servo (racking focus is near impossible)...

I completely share your sentiment there, it's why I turn down work when I find out there would be an XL1 involved. The lens won't even let you rack focus while zooming, it's ridiculous.

Anyway, I managed to find this ultra-high-res shot of the camera we're talking about:

http://news.sel.sony.com/images/larg...mcorder_lg.jpg

Focus looks manual to me, you would engage or disengage the focus servo for autofocus by moving the focus ring forward or backward.

Now the zoom appears to go from 6.8mm-81.2mm for a 12x zoom. Don't even think about trying to get tight with it. Wide end gives you an 86 degree diagonal angle of view, that's 23mm equivalent for you SLR photographers, and 4.5mm equivalent for 1/3" chips (i.e. HDxx0). It's decent, but probably lacking for POV applications. I always find myself wanting to go a bit wider than that. But then I'm a huge freak for wide-angle looks.

Werner Wesp · April 17th, 2007, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen

Focus looks manual to me, you would engage or disengage the focus servo for autofocus by moving the focus ring forward or backward.

I thought so too, but then I noticed a PUSH AUTO knob (between the zoom and iris), so that might suggest even the manual will be servo... (like the canon XL-series)? At least the Iris and zoom seem already fully manual - that's a start already...

Form factor amongst other things make it no camera for me, but I can imagine competition with this camera - still a long way to go to the production model, I suppose?

Stephan Ahonen · April 17th, 2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werner Wesp

I thought so too, but then I noticed a PUSH AUTO knob (between the zoom and iris), so that might suggest even the manual will be servo... (like the canon XL-series)? At least the Iris and zoom seem already fully manual - that's a start already...

It could be closer to the way Canon's still photography lenses with full-time manual focusing work. They don't feel like I'm focusing by wire like on an XL1, they feel like I'm actually grabbing the focus, but the autofocus motor can still do its own thing. If Canon had made their XL lenses work like this I'd have no complaints!

Guy Barwood · April 17th, 2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen

Now the zoom appears to go from 6.8mm-81.2mm for a 12x zoom. Don't even think about trying to get tight with it. Wide end gives you an 86 degree diagonal angle of view, that's 23mm equivalent for you SLR photographers, and 4.5mm equivalent for 1/3" chips (i.e. HDxx0). It's decent, but probably lacking for POV applications. I always find myself wanting to go a bit wider than that. But then I'm a huge freak for wide-angle looks.

That could be a 5.8 for exactly a 14x zoom ratio. It is clearly something .8 but the first number could be a 5 or a 6 from the part you see.
That would make it equivalent to a 3.8mm lens on a HD200 I think (around 20mm on 35mm?). If so thats pretty good for a camera like this. Is there a 1/3" lens that wide?

Stephan Ahonen · April 17th, 2007, 10:54 AM

There is an optional 13x3.5 lens for the JVC cameras. I believe Canon has an XL lens that comes back that wide too.

I think 6.8 is more likely for a couple reasons. First off, all of the 1/2" ENG cameras I've ever used have had a lens attached with either a 6.7mm or 6.8mm wide end. Second, wide angle lenses require a bulky retrofocal design that I don't believe would fit into the small size of that camera.

April 16th, 2007, 06:23 PM	#1
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Companion to HD200 Looks like your HD200 companion could be a Sony... http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/16/s...der/1#c4502235 720 60p with 3x1/2" sensors, but of course not a removable lens, but it does look to have real manual controls. Lets hope JVC do show us something new at NAB. Got to love this time of year.

April 16th, 2007, 10:12 PM	#2
Justin Ferar Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Larkspur, CA Posts: 378	That is something if it's not balsacam. Half inch imagers in that small of a body? Wow. __________________ www.justinferar.com www.weddingsonfilm.com

April 17th, 2007, 02:57 AM	#8
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	The formfactor is fine - until you want to shoot handheld. I pass... (1/2 inch imagers would be a big deal - but it know from experience it is better to wait and hear it actually confirmed that it will be 1/2 inch, and not 1/3 or even 1/4. And if it would be around 7K and up, I'd really like to have a manual lens for that price. 1/2 inch with a fixed lens takes the advantage of 1/2 inch imagers a little bit away...) __________________ High-Definition Video Consultant - CEO of Delimex NV - http://www.delimex.be gear of choice : http://www.wespgear.com

April 17th, 2007, 05:52 AM	#10
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	I should have written I don't like servo lenses... full manual controls are on all of them, but the focus is always servo (racking focus is near impossible)... The problem with all of these is the fact that they want to cram too much in a handheld formfactor. By now it becomes so bulky and heavy, it isn't really that suited to handheld use anymore (the HVX200 has the same problem). The JVC 'compact' form factor was a winning shot (the Canon XL was too front heavy). The only advantage to the so-called handhelds is that they are still smaller and not so heavy - which means you can work with a smaller and cheaper tripod and you can also get away with a small and cheap steadicamsystem. As soon as you really want to use these cams handheld, they're actually not that 'handy'... (hence the aftermarket in shoulder mounts for the HVX, DVX, FX1, ...) __________________ High-Definition Video Consultant - CEO of Delimex NV - http://www.delimex.be gear of choice : http://www.wespgear.com

April 16th, 2007, 10:23 PM	#3
Stephan Ahonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	Meh, it's a handycam. No thanks.

April 17th, 2007, 12:32 AM	#6
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	You seriously think the ENG form factor is the best form factor for every shooting requirement? Wow, we are clearly going to have to agree to disagree. If you look at the image you will see the buttons that are visible are in the general ENG layout, it just isn't sholder mount.

April 17th, 2007, 05:41 AM	#9
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	From the look of the lens controls it is a fully manual lens (with full auto options). The Iris and Zoom controls look just like a normal manual lens controls. It is just fixed, not removable. I am sure it will have some form or remote as all controls have auto options (so focus, iris and zoom are all powered). Possibly the standard remote controller that works on most Sony handycams?

April 17th, 2007, 10:54 AM	#15
Stephan Ahonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	There is an optional 13x3.5 lens for the JVC cameras. I believe Canon has an XL lens that comes back that wide too. I think 6.8 is more likely for a couple reasons. First off, all of the 1/2" ENG cameras I've ever used have had a lens attached with either a 6.7mm or 6.8mm wide end. Second, wide angle lenses require a bulky retrofocal design that I don't believe would fit into the small size of that camera.