Questions with frame rates at DVinfo.net

Rob Brookes · March 3rd, 2007, 04:24 AM

Hello, I will make this post as clear as I possibly can. I have the JVC 111 here in Pal country which I just got and I want to fully understand the frame rates and how it applies to post production and ofcoarse the export to dvd. Does 24p, 25p and 30p all have the same resolution. How does it work if the camera shoots 60p on the head. Can you use different frame rates in edit. Does all footage have to be exported at 25fps for dvd.What does pull down mean....I admit, I had the dv thing worked out well but I just need a crash coarse with this frame rate thing. If you could send me in a good direction I would be wrapped, I have had a good search on a few sites. I Edit with edius 4 and use pro coder express and author in encore. Hope someone can educate me , thanks in advance . Very curious about the HDVSD50 and 60P aswell????

Mike Marriage · March 3rd, 2007, 06:40 AM

For us PAL guys, things are pretty simple.

24p only if you are definitely doing a filmout
25p for stuttering filmlook for mainly PAL video distribution. Easy to go to filmout if needed.
50i (SD only) for video look, eg news

Unless you are making a video for NTSC markets, forget 30p. (Unless you need a to use a very mild slowmo for a shot)

SD50p or SD60p is great for slowmo and can be uprezzed for HD projects too. It can also give a smoother videolook when played at regular speed. The HD200 series offers 720p50 and 720p60 with gives full HD slowmo or smooth videolook 720p if played back at normal speed.

If your shooting drama in the UK on a HD111, stick with 25p unless you definitely doing a filmout.

Jack Walker · March 3rd, 2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Brookes

Hello, I will make this post as clear as I possibly can. I have the JVC 111 here in Pal country which I just got and I want to fully understand the frame rates and how it applies to post production and ofcoarse the export to dvd. Does 24p, 25p and 30p all have the same resolution. How does it work if the camera shoots 60p on the head. Can you use different frame rates in edit. Does all footage have to be exported at 25fps for dvd.What does pull down mean....I admit, I had the dv thing worked out well but I just need a crash coarse with this frame rate thing. If you could send me in a good direction I would be wrapped, I have had a good search on a few sites. I Edit with edius 4 and use pro coder express and author in encore. Hope someone can educate me , thanks in advance . Very curious about the HDVSD50 and 60P aswell????

What is Pulldown? Here are some defininitions:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&d...ition&ct=title

Frame rate and resolution are not related.

The frame rate is the number of frames per second of video. The p after the frame rate means progressive frame. Thus 25p means 25 progressive frames per second.

Resolution is the number of pixels and lines per frame. PAL DV is 720 pixels wide x 576 lines tall. In 4:3 aspect ratio the pixels are narrower than in 16:9 aspect ration, but there are the same number of pixels wide.

HDV1 is 1280 pixels wide x 720 lines tall. The frame is the same resolution in both NTSC and PAL - there is no distinction. However, PAL is displayed at 25 frames per second. In contrast NTSC is displayed at 30/60 frames per second. Film is displayed at 24 frames per second.

Using pulldown, a 24 frames per second (fps) video/film has frames duplicated to raise the frame rate to 30/60fps as explained in the definitions linked above. And this is why PAL people shouldn't shoot in 30p... because it is not convenient to remove frames in a way to get 25p -- or 24p for that matter. PAL is 25 full frames per second in all variations.

Liam Hall · March 3rd, 2007, 02:35 PM

Rob, the HDV resolution on this camera is the same regardless of frame rate. 24p (24 progressive frames per second), 25p (25 progressive frames per second) and 30p (30 progressive frames per second) all have the same resolution - 1280 x 720.

As you're in PAL land you won't need to worry about pulldown. Stick at 25p and you'll not go too far wrong.

Rob Brookes · March 3rd, 2007, 09:06 PM

Ok, thank you, that clears alot of my answers. Now in regards to HDVSD60P and HDVSD50P how does this apply. If I want to uprez 720 X 576 to 1280 X 720 do I do that through procoder before placing on timeline. Also, if its at 60P and my end project has to be 25p for dvd how do I make the conversion and what happens to the extra frames. To edit on timeline, should all files be of the same frame rate. I hope this makes sense, steep learning curve at moment...just want to completely undertand the frame rate situation and limitations. Thanks for your help so far guys.

Jack Walker · March 3rd, 2007, 09:14 PM

You might get a very clear answer to this on the Edius 4 Canopus forums since that is the software you use.

Also, someone here may have the answers since several people who post use Edius.

March 3rd, 2007, 04:24 AM	#1
Rob Brookes Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gold Coast Australia Posts: 56	Questions with frame rates Hello, I will make this post as clear as I possibly can. I have the JVC 111 here in Pal country which I just got and I want to fully understand the frame rates and how it applies to post production and ofcoarse the export to dvd. Does 24p, 25p and 30p all have the same resolution. How does it work if the camera shoots 60p on the head. Can you use different frame rates in edit. Does all footage have to be exported at 25fps for dvd.What does pull down mean....I admit, I had the dv thing worked out well but I just need a crash coarse with this frame rate thing. If you could send me in a good direction I would be wrapped, I have had a good search on a few sites. I Edit with edius 4 and use pro coder express and author in encore. Hope someone can educate me , thanks in advance . Very curious about the HDVSD50 and 60P aswell????

March 3rd, 2007, 06:40 AM	#2
Mike Marriage Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NE of London, England Posts: 788	For us PAL guys, things are pretty simple. 24p only if you are definitely doing a filmout 25p for stuttering filmlook for mainly PAL video distribution. Easy to go to filmout if needed. 50i (SD only) for video look, eg news Unless you are making a video for NTSC markets, forget 30p. (Unless you need a to use a very mild slowmo for a shot) SD50p or SD60p is great for slowmo and can be uprezzed for HD projects too. It can also give a smoother videolook when played at regular speed. The HD200 series offers 720p50 and 720p60 with gives full HD slowmo or smooth videolook 720p if played back at normal speed. If your shooting drama in the UK on a HD111, stick with 25p unless you definitely doing a filmout.

March 3rd, 2007, 02:35 PM	#4
Liam Hall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 969	Rob, the HDV resolution on this camera is the same regardless of frame rate. 24p (24 progressive frames per second), 25p (25 progressive frames per second) and 30p (30 progressive frames per second) all have the same resolution - 1280 x 720. As you're in PAL land you won't need to worry about pulldown. Stick at 25p and you'll not go too far wrong.

March 3rd, 2007, 09:06 PM	#5
Rob Brookes Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gold Coast Australia Posts: 56	Ok, thank you, that clears alot of my answers. Now in regards to HDVSD60P and HDVSD50P how does this apply. If I want to uprez 720 X 576 to 1280 X 720 do I do that through procoder before placing on timeline. Also, if its at 60P and my end project has to be 25p for dvd how do I make the conversion and what happens to the extra frames. To edit on timeline, should all files be of the same frame rate. I hope this makes sense, steep learning curve at moment...just want to completely undertand the frame rate situation and limitations. Thanks for your help so far guys.

March 3rd, 2007, 09:14 PM	#6
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	You might get a very clear answer to this on the Edius 4 Canopus forums since that is the software you use. Also, someone here may have the answers since several people who post use Edius.