Exporting to 1080i50 from HD 110 / HD 200 at DVinfo.net

Michael MK Siu · March 2nd, 2007, 01:29 PM

I am working on a small tv series right now and all of the materials shot thus far are in the 1080i50 HDV format (using both the sony Z1P and V1P - PAL version of the Z1U and V1U).

The company is looking to acquire one more extra camera and since they know I am thinking of purchasing a camera, they had come up with an offer to rent my camera once I have it purchased.

I am leaning towards buying a JVC HD 110 / HD 200. However, there's the issue of format compatibility.

It is not an option to change the formats to anything else other than 1080i50. I am wondering if there is a way to accept the 720p (24 / 50) materials from the JVC and have them converted to 1080i50 on the fly during import?

I had thought about capturing via component or HD-SDI (using the HD Connect LE from convergent design) going into a mac pro with a decklink card. Is this a possibility? Or, better yet, is there a way to have the material transcode into 1080i via the camera's firewire?

Or, is this just too much trouble and I (or the company) should just get another camera that's compatible with 1080i50 (ie another sony / canon A1 , G1, H1 etc.)

Thanks in advance for all inputs.

MK

---
[www.dvshortfilms.com]
[www.michaelmksiu.com]

Jack Walker · March 2nd, 2007, 02:45 PM

I would think that the HD200, shooting 50p HDV, would give you reasonable compatibility. You could uprez to 1080i and just drop one field from every frame.

I think the HD110 would be more problematic. But I hope others who have done this will contribute.

Howeve, my main concern would be that the JVC camera is entirely different in operation and features to the Sony cameras.

If this is going to be used as an "extra" camera, who will be shooting with it? Will it be people who are experienced with and used to the Sony cameras, but who need to retrain to use the JVC camera -- manual lens, larger size, shoulder mount, no image stabilization, no auto focus, etc.

The JVC will require different production requirements than the Sony cameras, as well -- possibly different monitors, etc.

Also, the accessories for the JVC may be different than the Sony cameras with the different screw-in filter size, wide angle converter, and so in.

It seems that a close examination of how, when and by whom the extra camera will be used is in order.

I own a PD150 and an HD110. An associate uses the Z1U. From what we have done and the nature of the cameras, if I were to get an extra camera to go with the Z1 and V1, I would get a V1.

It shoots progresssive as well as the way you are using it. It is the smallest of the bunch (same as the PD150) and would work as a second or third camera mounted in an odd place. It uses all the same accessories you already have, and so forth.

My choice for a second HDV camera is the V1 -- but I am looking for the portability not available with the JVC, and the V1 also fits all the flying rigs and miscellaneous accessories I have used with the PD150.

Again, a close examinatin of how you will be using the extra camera and who will be using it (with what experience with the different cameras) seems to be necessary before making a decision.

The HD200 may be perfect for your personal use, but I'm not sure it would be the best choice in the scenario you have. The V1 may or may not be right for your personal use, but if it is working for you now on the TV series, a second one wouldn't be unreasonable.

Mike Schell · March 4th, 2007, 04:40 PM

Hi Michael-
Your best best with the JVC playback would be to purchase the HD50 deck and use our HDMI to HD/SD-SDI converter (HD-Connect MI, $695). You can play back all the JVC formats and output in 720p, 1080i or SD resolutions through the HD/SDI-SDI output (video + audio + time-code).

Mike Schell
Convergent Design

Tim Dashwood · March 4th, 2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael MK Siu

I am wondering if there is a way to accept the 720p (24 / 50) materials from the JVC and have them converted to 1080i50 on the fly during import?

I had thought about capturing via component or HD-SDI (using the HD Connect LE from convergent design) going into a mac pro with a decklink card. Is this a possibility? Or, better yet, is there a way to have the material transcode into 1080i via the camera's firewire?

Michael,

You won't be able to do it via firewire unless you use the Connect LE or the Connect MI as Mike mentioned. I can vouch for the Connect LE. I have one of these units and have been testing all the different things it can do. It is a really great device for HD100 users who want the same HD-SDI BNC connection as the HD250, along with RS-422 deck control.

If you have a Decklink system and you don't need deck control/TC, the HD201 (and I believe the HD101/111) will cross-convert 720P25 or 720P50 to 1080i50 on playback via the component outputs. The HD251 will also do it via the HD-SDI output as well.
720P25 would become 1080p25 (25PsF) and 720P50 would become 1080i50.

Michael MK Siu · March 8th, 2007, 06:27 AM

Thank you all for your helpful replies.

We ended up getting a V1p for now since it was the eaisest / simpliest soloution.

However, for my own information, I'd still want to know what the process is in regards to crossconverting between the two formats (720p vs 1080i). As there's still a chance that I'll be getting a camcorder and would want to use it with this production.

My main question is that once I cross convert and use either SDI / component as my input source, what codec will the files be once they are captured? Can I still use the HDV codec? or will they be something else?

Will these be compatible with the HDV 1080i50 footage that I captured via firewire with my Sony HDV deck?

As well regarding to deck control - If I use either the Conenct LE / MI, would it be correc to say I will need to have a capture card with RS-422 to control the unit's playback?

On the same token, If I do not have RS-422 control, is it possible to just hit play on the device and capture? Would timecode be accurate and transfered too?

Thanks again for the help!

MK

---
[www.dvshortfilms.com]
[www.michaelmksiu.com]

Mike Schell · March 8th, 2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael MK Siu

Thank you all for your helpful replies.

We ended up getting a V1p for now since it was the eaisest / simpliest soloution.

However, for my own information, I'd still want to know what the process is in regards to crossconverting between the two formats (720p vs 1080i). As there's still a chance that I'll be getting a camcorder and would want to use it with this production.

My main question is that once I cross convert and use either SDI / component as my input source, what codec will the files be once they are captured? Can I still use the HDV codec? or will they be something else?

Will these be compatible with the HDV 1080i50 footage that I captured via firewire with my Sony HDV deck?

As well regarding to deck control - If I use either the Conenct LE / MI, would it be correc to say I will need to have a capture card with RS-422 to control the unit's playback?

On the same token, If I do not have RS-422 control, is it possible to just hit play on the device and capture? Would timecode be accurate and transfered too?

Thanks again for the help!

MK

---
[www.dvshortfilms.com]
[www.michaelmksiu.com]

Your best choice with the V1U is the HD-Connect MI which does HDMI to HD/SD-SDI conversion. You can can get 1080i, 720p or SD video out of the MI box (it can invoke the cross-converter / down-converter inside the V1U to produce these other formats).

You can use the RS-422 to 1394 deck control in the MI box or you can control the V1U directly using the 1394 connection from your PC/MAC. Either way the batch captures are accurate to about +/- 1 frame.

Drew Curran · March 8th, 2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Michael,

You won't be able to do it via firewire unless you use the Connect LE or the Connect MI as Mike mentioned. I can vouch for the Connect LE. I have one of these units and have been testing all the different things it can do. It is a really great device for HD100 users who want the same HD-SDI BNC connection as the HD250, along with RS-422 deck control.

Does this device do something like what the AJA and Blackmagic cards do, capturing from the HD100 and converting to DVCPro-HD in realtime, except via firewire. This would be great as I don't have a PCIe slot in my G5.

Edit: scrub that. It still needs a capture card in my G5 as far as I can see. Ignore this unless I'm wrong.

Andrew

March 2nd, 2007, 01:29 PM	#1
Michael MK Siu New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 24	Exporting to 1080i50 from HD 110 / HD 200 I am working on a small tv series right now and all of the materials shot thus far are in the 1080i50 HDV format (using both the sony Z1P and V1P - PAL version of the Z1U and V1U). The company is looking to acquire one more extra camera and since they know I am thinking of purchasing a camera, they had come up with an offer to rent my camera once I have it purchased. I am leaning towards buying a JVC HD 110 / HD 200. However, there's the issue of format compatibility. It is not an option to change the formats to anything else other than 1080i50. I am wondering if there is a way to accept the 720p (24 / 50) materials from the JVC and have them converted to 1080i50 on the fly during import? I had thought about capturing via component or HD-SDI (using the HD Connect LE from convergent design) going into a mac pro with a decklink card. Is this a possibility? Or, better yet, is there a way to have the material transcode into 1080i via the camera's firewire? Or, is this just too much trouble and I (or the company) should just get another camera that's compatible with 1080i50 (ie another sony / canon A1 , G1, H1 etc.) Thanks in advance for all inputs. MK --- [www.dvshortfilms.com] [www.michaelmksiu.com]

March 4th, 2007, 04:40 PM	#3
Mike Schell Convergent Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 869	Hi Michael- Your best best with the JVC playback would be to purchase the HD50 deck and use our HDMI to HD/SD-SDI converter (HD-Connect MI, $695). You can play back all the JVC formats and output in 720p, 1080i or SD resolutions through the HD/SDI-SDI output (video + audio + time-code). Mike Schell Convergent Design __________________ Mike Schell Convergent Design

March 2nd, 2007, 02:45 PM	#2
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	I would think that the HD200, shooting 50p HDV, would give you reasonable compatibility. You could uprez to 1080i and just drop one field from every frame. I think the HD110 would be more problematic. But I hope others who have done this will contribute. Howeve, my main concern would be that the JVC camera is entirely different in operation and features to the Sony cameras. If this is going to be used as an "extra" camera, who will be shooting with it? Will it be people who are experienced with and used to the Sony cameras, but who need to retrain to use the JVC camera -- manual lens, larger size, shoulder mount, no image stabilization, no auto focus, etc. The JVC will require different production requirements than the Sony cameras, as well -- possibly different monitors, etc. Also, the accessories for the JVC may be different than the Sony cameras with the different screw-in filter size, wide angle converter, and so in. It seems that a close examination of how, when and by whom the extra camera will be used is in order. I own a PD150 and an HD110. An associate uses the Z1U. From what we have done and the nature of the cameras, if I were to get an extra camera to go with the Z1 and V1, I would get a V1. It shoots progresssive as well as the way you are using it. It is the smallest of the bunch (same as the PD150) and would work as a second or third camera mounted in an odd place. It uses all the same accessories you already have, and so forth. My choice for a second HDV camera is the V1 -- but I am looking for the portability not available with the JVC, and the V1 also fits all the flying rigs and miscellaneous accessories I have used with the PD150. Again, a close examinatin of how you will be using the extra camera and who will be using it (with what experience with the different cameras) seems to be necessary before making a decision. The HD200 may be perfect for your personal use, but I'm not sure it would be the best choice in the scenario you have. The V1 may or may not be right for your personal use, but if it is working for you now on the TV series, a second one wouldn't be unreasonable.

March 8th, 2007, 06:27 AM	#5
Michael MK Siu New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 24	Thank you all for your helpful replies. We ended up getting a V1p for now since it was the eaisest / simpliest soloution. However, for my own information, I'd still want to know what the process is in regards to crossconverting between the two formats (720p vs 1080i). As there's still a chance that I'll be getting a camcorder and would want to use it with this production. My main question is that once I cross convert and use either SDI / component as my input source, what codec will the files be once they are captured? Can I still use the HDV codec? or will they be something else? Will these be compatible with the HDV 1080i50 footage that I captured via firewire with my Sony HDV deck? As well regarding to deck control - If I use either the Conenct LE / MI, would it be correc to say I will need to have a capture card with RS-422 to control the unit's playback? On the same token, If I do not have RS-422 control, is it possible to just hit play on the device and capture? Would timecode be accurate and transfered too? Thanks again for the help! MK --- [www.dvshortfilms.com] [www.michaelmksiu.com]