2nd camera to work well with HD100 at DVinfo.net

Tom Chaney · February 14th, 2007, 07:10 PM

Hey Gang,

We are looking at a new camera and wondered if anyone had any thoughts or experience, with a smaller, less expensive camera than the HD100 that would work well with our current HD100.

We shoot sports for High Schools and my parnter in crime likes the mid sized Canon HDV camera.

My concern is that if we end up shooting together, the footage won't match without a good deal of tweaking.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experience would be appreciated.

Best regards,

Tom Chaney

Jerry Land · February 14th, 2007, 08:33 PM

What my detail challenged friend Tom failed to mention is that it is the Canon
XH A1. We are concerned about the frame size difference between the two camera's as well as any other trouble we would run into during post. We use Final Cut Studio by the way.

Tom Chaney · February 17th, 2007, 08:33 PM

My brothers!

Are none of you using a different camera as a back up?

Tom

Tony Tibbetts · February 17th, 2007, 10:17 PM

I think you can run the Canon footage through mpeg streamclip to match the resolution of the JVC ...I think. I'm not positive I haven't done it myself.

Kit Hannah · February 17th, 2007, 11:04 PM

I'm not sure what final cut does to the footage, but Vegas handles it pretty well. The big problems you're going to run into is the color. You'll really have to do a lot of tweaking before hand to get the colors looking similar. We don't like to mismatch cameras. We did a job a couple years ago where we matched a Canon XL-2 and a couple JVC - DV5000's. You definately noticed the differences between the cameras, and with everything we did to correct it, it still looked off. But if you have to, then I would say try it out, but definately do some tests before hand to try and match the camera's native color in the color setting menus.

Jack Walker · February 18th, 2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Chaney

We are looking at a new camera and wondered if anyone had any thoughts or experience, with a smaller, less expensive camera than the HD100 that would work well with our current HD100.
Tom Chaney

What price range are you talking about?
Do you want to shoot progressive or do you want interlaced and convert it to progressive?

I have only seen it at a show, but I think the Sony V1, which is true progressive, might be a good camera. It's the same size as a PD150 (which is smaller than the Z1).

When you say "backup," do you mean a camera to use if the other one isn't available? Or do you want something to intercut with the HD100?

If you were going to intercut, matching the cameras might be accomplished by setting them up using DSC chart and the appropriate monitors (such as in DVRack).

If you were going to use the second camera for special shots, such as closeups on the sidelines, low angle field shots into the lights, etc., getting the cameras to match exactly would be less important.

I have done a lot of this with many different DV cameras, but I haven't done so with the JVC cameras and HDV. Based on the responses on this topic in the past, it doesn't seem like many people use a second, smaller camera together with the JVC camera. Most of those who have mixed camera footage in the same project seem to have done so out of necessity, not as part of the plan. Am I wrong here?

Tony Tibbetts · February 18th, 2007, 03:51 AM

Okay, I just converted a 1080 24f clip to HDV 720/24p in mpeg steamclip and it works great. I would assume that converting a 30f to 30p clip would equal thew same results, as would a 1080 60i to 720 30p.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

I have only seen it at a show, but I think the Sony V1, which is true progressive, might be a good camera.

I don't want to be defensive or anything but 24f is "true progressive". I don't understand why there is some sort of stigma still associated with the Canon cameras. It's not fake progressive.

It has been proven ad nauseum on these boards that 24f=24p. Insinuating otherwise is just misinformation and a disservice to the Canon line of cameras

Tony Tibbetts · February 18th, 2007, 03:52 AM

Double post... please ignore.

Tom Chaney · February 18th, 2007, 07:29 AM

Thanks guys. Good stuff.

The color was my concern as well.

I think that we might be leaning towards another JVC - perhaps used.

Tom

Ben Lynn · February 18th, 2007, 07:30 AM

Tony,

What canon were you using? If you get a chance I'm sure everyone looking at this post would like to see some side by side footage of the canon and the jvc being intercut. Thanks.

Ben

Jack Walker · February 18th, 2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Tibbetts

I don't want to be defensive or anything but 24f is "true progressive". I don't understand why there is some sort of stigma still associated with the Canon cameras. It's not fake progressive.

What I meant was that the Sony V1 uses a progressive imagers, as the JVC uses progressive CCDs. In contrast the Canon H1 uses interlaced CCDs, then extracts the progressive frames.

The results can be excellent from all the cameras. For some people, the H1 has the advantage of producing excellent 1080i, and the extracted progressive video is a bonus.

Tony Tibbetts · February 18th, 2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Lynn

Tony,

What canon were you using? If you get a chance I'm sure everyone looking at this post would like to see some side by side footage of the canon and the jvc being intercut. Thanks.

Ben

I only own the Canon. I think the only trouble you would find matching cameras is from the Panasonic cams due to the exaggerated gamma curves.

No camera is gonna match with another camera perfectly. There will need to be adjustments with both cameras settings and some additional tweaking in post.Seeing footage from the Canon and the JVC tells me that intercutting them shouldn't be that much of a problem. I haven't seen any footage from the Sony (except on these boards) So I'm not sure about the Sony, but I would guess that it would be as good. The problem with the Sony is getting it into the NLE, namely FCP Studio.

I know for a fact you can convert Canons HDV clips from 1440x1080 24f 1280x720 24p in a few different formats. Specifically HDV 720/24p the same as the footage from the JVC. Assuming thats the goal. It also works for the other frame rates as well (30p, 60i)

Steven Thomas · February 26th, 2007, 05:46 PM

Why not a used HD100.

http://cgi.ebay.com/JVC-GY-HD100UA-H...QQcmdZViewItem

Sal C. Martin · March 7th, 2007, 07:28 AM

speaking of mtaching video, how on earth will I match old footage shot in SD 4:3 and mix it in with my new stuff in HD720-30p?

I have a client who has old video (of family stuff etc) that he wants edited in with new footage.

Also, I have a client who has shot some of his mountain bike rides on a small consumer "handicam" (SD 16:9) and wants that included in his finished product.

pardon my ignorance but I haven't encountered this before. thanks.

February 14th, 2007, 07:10 PM	#1
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	2nd camera to work well with HD100 Hey Gang, We are looking at a new camera and wondered if anyone had any thoughts or experience, with a smaller, less expensive camera than the HD100 that would work well with our current HD100. We shoot sports for High Schools and my parnter in crime likes the mid sized Canon HDV camera. My concern is that if we end up shooting together, the footage won't match without a good deal of tweaking. Any thoughts, suggestions or experience would be appreciated. Best regards, Tom Chaney

February 14th, 2007, 08:33 PM	#2
Jerry Land New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Melvindale, Michigan Posts: 8	More info What my detail challenged friend Tom failed to mention is that it is the Canon XH A1. We are concerned about the frame size difference between the two camera's as well as any other trouble we would run into during post. We use Final Cut Studio by the way.

February 17th, 2007, 08:33 PM	#3
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	No Love at all! My brothers! Are none of you using a different camera as a back up? Tom

March 7th, 2007, 07:28 AM	#14
Sal C. Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Francisco California Posts: 52	2nd camera speaking of mtaching video, how on earth will I match old footage shot in SD 4:3 and mix it in with my new stuff in HD720-30p? I have a client who has old video (of family stuff etc) that he wants edited in with new footage. Also, I have a client who has shot some of his mountain bike rides on a small consumer "handicam" (SD 16:9) and wants that included in his finished product. pardon my ignorance but I haven't encountered this before. thanks.

February 17th, 2007, 10:17 PM	#4
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	I think you can run the Canon footage through mpeg streamclip to match the resolution of the JVC ...I think. I'm not positive I haven't done it myself.

February 17th, 2007, 11:04 PM	#5
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	I'm not sure what final cut does to the footage, but Vegas handles it pretty well. The big problems you're going to run into is the color. You'll really have to do a lot of tweaking before hand to get the colors looking similar. We don't like to mismatch cameras. We did a job a couple years ago where we matched a Canon XL-2 and a couple JVC - DV5000's. You definately noticed the differences between the cameras, and with everything we did to correct it, it still looked off. But if you have to, then I would say try it out, but definately do some tests before hand to try and match the camera's native color in the color setting menus.

February 18th, 2007, 03:52 AM	#8
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	Double post... please ignore.

February 18th, 2007, 07:29 AM	#9
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	Thanks guys. Good stuff. The color was my concern as well. I think that we might be leaning towards another JVC - perhaps used. Tom

February 18th, 2007, 07:30 AM	#10
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	Tony, What canon were you using? If you get a chance I'm sure everyone looking at this post would like to see some side by side footage of the canon and the jvc being intercut. Thanks. Ben

February 26th, 2007, 05:46 PM	#13
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Why not a used HD100. http://cgi.ebay.com/JVC-GY-HD100UA-H...QQcmdZViewItem