Will the Focus Enhancements FS-4 HD 40GB work with HD110? at DVinfo.net

Ben Garvey · February 5th, 2007, 07:01 PM

The is my very first post at DV info!

I am a previous HVX200 owner, and sold it for the HD110 as I have been staying tuned to all the discussions regarding the HD100 and I have gained valuable experience here before even touching the camera!

I want to go the tapeless route, and use the Firestore HD, and was wondering if the FS-4 HD 40 GB will work with myHD110, and/or if all the Focus Drives will work.

Also, I want to avoid using HDV by all means possible, importing the footage from the Firestore and converting it to DVCPROHD into my Final Cut. Can Final Cut Pro handle this, or does anyone reccomend using a third party converter to first convert to DVCPROHD and then use that in Final Cut?
I just shot a film in Brasil with the HD100, we then used the Kona Card to capture the footage as DVCPRO HD, and it worked excellently, so I would like to stay on the route and workflow.

Kit Hannah · February 5th, 2007, 07:18 PM

We do precisely this - HD110 > Firestore FS-4 HD - Works great, although we tend to get gaps in the footage in HDV mode when it comes to our NLE (Vegas 7). In DV mode, it works fine. We have not narrowed the problem down yet, but we are working on it.

If you're recording to DV, a FS-3 Drive will work, but you'll have to be in DV mode on the camera. The FS-4 series is the only ones from Focus Enhancements that will record HD in a mobile package.

As for FCP, we're PC guys, so can't comment on that workflow.

Ben Garvey · February 5th, 2007, 07:24 PM

Have you installed the recently released updates to the Firestore? How many/frequency of dropouts do you get?
And you don't need the designated JVC DR-HD100 drives? They seem to be more a lot more, then the DV -FS 4 HD drives.

Kit Hannah · February 5th, 2007, 09:18 PM

We get a consistent 6 frame drop - audio & video, between clips when imported to vegas. Like I mentioned before, this may or may not be a Vegas issue. Vegas 6 drops a bit of audio (like 3 frames), but little of the video. We do a lot of live stuff, and typically shoot 3 or 4 cameras, combine most of the audio, so it's not a big deal except fot that every 12 minutes of video, we have to bump the footage 6 frames back to match. We have already done a handful of long projects, making this a time consuming problem, but by no means does it "ruin" the project. We are actively working to rectify the situation, trying to figure out where the problem is. We have been testing with other programs to see what the pronosis is, importing it different ways, recording using different methods, and we will post our findings when the testing is complete.

Yes, we do have the latest firmware updates, as we just actually got the drives about 2 weeks ago, drop shipped directly from Focus, overnight. They were pre-installed with the latest firmware. We may try re-installing the firmware, as it may be corrupt, but I doubt that is the issue, since it is happening with all 6 of our drives, so that would indicate to us a problem in the code somewhere if in fact it is a Focus problem. But until testing is complete, we won't have a final answer.

As far as the DR-HD100 goes, it is basically a "pro HD" version that adds a bit more functionality in the camera, specifically the time remaining on the drive displayed in your viewfinder / on the lcd screen and a power down function if your camera runs out of juice. I assume you're looking into the HD version instead of the pro HD version because you don't need quicktime support, and you don't rally care about the time lapse / 10 second retro record. I don't believe that all of those functions warrant an extra $600, especially when your Firestore will most likely be mounted where you can see it anyways. Whether not you have the time displayed in the LCD, it's only minutes, so if the drive freezes, the display just stays at the minutes remaining where it froze.

We had problems early on with out DR-DV5000's for our SD Cameras, which is a rebaged FS-3. Although nice, If you don't worry about looking at the Firestore's LCD and trust your viewfinder, you may not realize that your drive has stopped recording. If it says "Minutes remaining, 125 for longer than a minute, you know there's a problem. We didn't have a huge problem with it, but there are a few times that it did, and we lost maybe 10-15 minutes of footage, having to get creative with the other cameras.

Overall, I don't think the DR-HD100 is worth the extra investment over the FS-4HD. We're not using FCP, which means we don't need quicktime, so the "pro" version really won't do anything extra for us anyways. With the money we saved on ours, we can almost purchase another camera, or lots of cool accessories for everything, which is much more valuable to us than having a minute counter in the display.

William Hohauser · February 5th, 2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Garvey

The is my very first post at DV info!

I am a previous HVX200 owner, and sold it for the HD110 as I have been staying tuned to all the discussions regarding the HD100 and I have gained valuable experience here before even touching the camera!

I want to go the tapeless route, and use the Firestore HD, and was wondering if the FS-4 HD 40 GB will work with myHD110, and/or if all the Focus Drives will work.

Also, I want to avoid using HDV by all means possible, importing the footage from the Firestore and converting it to DVCPROHD into my Final Cut. Can Final Cut Pro handle this, or does anyone reccomend using a third party converter to first convert to DVCPROHD and then use that in Final Cut?
I just shot a film in Brasil with the HD100, we then used the Kona Card to capture the footage as DVCPRO HD, and it worked excellently, so I would like to stay on the route and workflow.

It will work and work rather well. There is one hitch, the FS-4 HD will not capture in QuickTime HDV only m2t raw HDV stream files. If you don't want HDV in QuickTime then this drive should work however m2t files are HDV anyway so you are not avoiding the pitfalls of MPEG2 recording. Programs like MPEGStreamclip will convert the m2t files to DVCProHD but it takes time.

I suggest that you invest in the DR-HD100 especially if you are intending to do a lot of 24p shooting. Edit in HDV and export via Compressor a DVCProHD master file when the edit is finished. The benefits are explained in many other posts in this forum. If the prospect of bulk transcoding of m2t files isn't daunting to your production methods, the FS-4 HD should work.

The only way to avoid MPEG2 recording with the HD-110 or the HD-200 is to take the analog component video out and record directly to a portable HD deck. Which one? Someone else will have to volunteer that info since I don't know.

Ben Garvey · February 6th, 2007, 07:09 PM

Do any of the Firestore Drives have a video out so that I can playback the video from the firestore drive on a monitor, on location?

William Hohauser · February 6th, 2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Garvey

Do any of the Firestore Drives have a video out so that I can playback the video from the firestore drive on a monitor, on location?

No. They have the ability to play back the recorded file back through the FireWire connection to the camera which can be hooked up to a monitor.

You are looking for a deluxe model that doesn't exist. I wish it did.

Ben Garvey · March 12th, 2007, 01:15 PM

I am about to order a firestore drive, but need some help on my final decisions.

I am trying to pick between the FS-4 and the FS-4 PRO HD. Talked to Firestore, and although they were trying to convince me to buying the more expensive FS-4 HD version, it sounds like the FS-4 should work.
I want to work in DVCPRO HD so I would need to convert the .m2t (FS-4) and qt (FS-4 PRO HD) both to DVCPRO HD anyway. So, would I be able to get away with the lesser expensive FS-4?

Bill Ravens · March 12th, 2007, 01:31 PM

I use the FS4HD without any dropped frames, whatsoever. If you're outputting m2t files, you must get the fs4hd. the standard fsf will do only avi and qt.

William Hohauser · March 12th, 2007, 01:36 PM

The FS-4 records HDV? I don't think that model exists anymore. It would need a paid upgrade to recognized HDV. The current model is the FS-4 HD.

How much do you value your time? If you are shooting less than 2 hours a week then whatever records m2t files will work. Plan on at least double the length of you footage to transcode. 2 hours = 4 hours of transcoding time, depending on your computer. A Quad Mac Pro should cut that time down a bit. For a reasonable amount more you could get the FS4 HD Pro and just transfer the files. Especially if you are planning on lots of footage.

Kit Hannah · March 12th, 2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hohauser

The FS-4 records HDV? I don't think that model exists anymore. It would need a paid upgrade to recognized HDV. The current model is the FS-4 HD.

How much do you value your time? If you are shooting less than 2 hours a week then whatever records m2t files will work. Plan on at least double the length of you footage to transcode. 2 hours = 4 hours of transcoding time, depending on your computer. A Quad Mac Pro should cut that time down a bit. For a reasonable amount more you could get the FS4 HD Pro and just transfer the files. Especially if you are planning on lots of footage.

The standard FS-4 does not record HD files - you are correct. The FS-4 HD and the pro record the same exact thing - .m2t. The pro only adds features that have nothing to do with the way it records HD, unless you're using quicktime HD.

Ben Garvey · March 12th, 2007, 10:40 PM

Just to make sure of all of my options, I did a search under B&H for 'HD100'
and this item came up.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Does anyone know if it would work with the HD100? It appears that they record everything as .avi or .mov
And how is the quality compared to the Firestore FS-4?

Drew Curran · March 13th, 2007, 03:44 AM

Ben check out the direct to disk forum on this site for reviews of the Citidisk

Andrew

Bill Ravens · March 13th, 2007, 08:27 AM

i would avoid citidisk.

Ben Garvey · March 13th, 2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Curran

Ben check out the direct to disk forum on this site for reviews of the Citidisk

Andrew

Yes, I did, and that was helpful.

Just two more questions, How does the FS-4 HD handle timecode. Does it sync to the camera when you are simultaneusly recording to tape?

If I am using MPEG Streamclip to transcode the footage from the FS-4HD to DVCPRO HD from what my HD100 shot, what is the process? Can I just drag and drop the files from the FS-4HD into my desktop and have MPEG Streamclip convert, or do I need to log and capture with Final Cut first?

February 5th, 2007, 07:01 PM	#1
Ben Garvey Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 33	Will the Focus Enhancements FS-4 HD 40GB work with HD110? The is my very first post at DV info! I am a previous HVX200 owner, and sold it for the HD110 as I have been staying tuned to all the discussions regarding the HD100 and I have gained valuable experience here before even touching the camera! I want to go the tapeless route, and use the Firestore HD, and was wondering if the FS-4 HD 40 GB will work with myHD110, and/or if all the Focus Drives will work. Also, I want to avoid using HDV by all means possible, importing the footage from the Firestore and converting it to DVCPROHD into my Final Cut. Can Final Cut Pro handle this, or does anyone reccomend using a third party converter to first convert to DVCPROHD and then use that in Final Cut? I just shot a film in Brasil with the HD100, we then used the Kona Card to capture the footage as DVCPRO HD, and it worked excellently, so I would like to stay on the route and workflow.

February 5th, 2007, 07:24 PM	#3
Ben Garvey Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 33	Have you installed the recently released updates to the Firestore? How many/frequency of dropouts do you get? And you don't need the designated JVC DR-HD100 drives? They seem to be more a lot more, then the DV -FS 4 HD drives. Last edited by Ben Garvey; February 5th, 2007 at 07:59 PM.

March 12th, 2007, 01:15 PM	#8
Ben Garvey Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 33	FS-4 or FS-4 HD for JVC110? I am about to order a firestore drive, but need some help on my final decisions. I am trying to pick between the FS-4 and the FS-4 PRO HD. Talked to Firestore, and although they were trying to convince me to buying the more expensive FS-4 HD version, it sounds like the FS-4 should work. I want to work in DVCPRO HD so I would need to convert the .m2t (FS-4) and qt (FS-4 PRO HD) both to DVCPRO HD anyway. So, would I be able to get away with the lesser expensive FS-4? Last edited by Ben Garvey; March 12th, 2007 at 01:57 PM.

March 12th, 2007, 01:36 PM	#10
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	The FS-4 records HDV? I don't think that model exists anymore. It would need a paid upgrade to recognized HDV. The current model is the FS-4 HD. How much do you value your time? If you are shooting less than 2 hours a week then whatever records m2t files will work. Plan on at least double the length of you footage to transcode. 2 hours = 4 hours of transcoding time, depending on your computer. A Quad Mac Pro should cut that time down a bit. For a reasonable amount more you could get the FS4 HD Pro and just transfer the files. Especially if you are planning on lots of footage. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

March 12th, 2007, 10:40 PM	#12
Ben Garvey Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 33	Has anyone tried the Citidisk? Just to make sure of all of my options, I did a search under B&H for 'HD100' and this item came up. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search Does anyone know if it would work with the HD100? It appears that they record everything as .avi or .mov And how is the quality compared to the Firestore FS-4?

February 5th, 2007, 07:18 PM	#2
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	We do precisely this - HD110 > Firestore FS-4 HD - Works great, although we tend to get gaps in the footage in HDV mode when it comes to our NLE (Vegas 7). In DV mode, it works fine. We have not narrowed the problem down yet, but we are working on it. If you're recording to DV, a FS-3 Drive will work, but you'll have to be in DV mode on the camera. The FS-4 series is the only ones from Focus Enhancements that will record HD in a mobile package. As for FCP, we're PC guys, so can't comment on that workflow.

February 5th, 2007, 09:18 PM	#4
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	We get a consistent 6 frame drop - audio & video, between clips when imported to vegas. Like I mentioned before, this may or may not be a Vegas issue. Vegas 6 drops a bit of audio (like 3 frames), but little of the video. We do a lot of live stuff, and typically shoot 3 or 4 cameras, combine most of the audio, so it's not a big deal except fot that every 12 minutes of video, we have to bump the footage 6 frames back to match. We have already done a handful of long projects, making this a time consuming problem, but by no means does it "ruin" the project. We are actively working to rectify the situation, trying to figure out where the problem is. We have been testing with other programs to see what the pronosis is, importing it different ways, recording using different methods, and we will post our findings when the testing is complete. Yes, we do have the latest firmware updates, as we just actually got the drives about 2 weeks ago, drop shipped directly from Focus, overnight. They were pre-installed with the latest firmware. We may try re-installing the firmware, as it may be corrupt, but I doubt that is the issue, since it is happening with all 6 of our drives, so that would indicate to us a problem in the code somewhere if in fact it is a Focus problem. But until testing is complete, we won't have a final answer. As far as the DR-HD100 goes, it is basically a "pro HD" version that adds a bit more functionality in the camera, specifically the time remaining on the drive displayed in your viewfinder / on the lcd screen and a power down function if your camera runs out of juice. I assume you're looking into the HD version instead of the pro HD version because you don't need quicktime support, and you don't rally care about the time lapse / 10 second retro record. I don't believe that all of those functions warrant an extra $600, especially when your Firestore will most likely be mounted where you can see it anyways. Whether not you have the time displayed in the LCD, it's only minutes, so if the drive freezes, the display just stays at the minutes remaining where it froze. We had problems early on with out DR-DV5000's for our SD Cameras, which is a rebaged FS-3. Although nice, If you don't worry about looking at the Firestore's LCD and trust your viewfinder, you may not realize that your drive has stopped recording. If it says "Minutes remaining, 125 for longer than a minute, you know there's a problem. We didn't have a huge problem with it, but there are a few times that it did, and we lost maybe 10-15 minutes of footage, having to get creative with the other cameras. Overall, I don't think the DR-HD100 is worth the extra investment over the FS-4HD. We're not using FCP, which means we don't need quicktime, so the "pro" version really won't do anything extra for us anyways. With the money we saved on ours, we can almost purchase another camera, or lots of cool accessories for everything, which is much more valuable to us than having a minute counter in the display.

February 6th, 2007, 07:09 PM	#6
Ben Garvey Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 33	Do any of the Firestore Drives have a video out so that I can playback the video from the firestore drive on a monitor, on location?

March 12th, 2007, 01:31 PM	#9
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I use the FS4HD without any dropped frames, whatsoever. If you're outputting m2t files, you must get the fs4hd. the standard fsf will do only avi and qt.

March 13th, 2007, 03:44 AM	#13
Drew Curran Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: N. Ireland Posts: 370	Ben check out the direct to disk forum on this site for reviews of the Citidisk Andrew __________________ Pixol www.pixol.co www.facebook.com/pixolmedia www.twitter.com/pixolmedia

March 13th, 2007, 08:27 AM	#14
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	i would avoid citidisk.