HZ-CA13U PL Mount Test Footage

Michael Maier · January 29th, 2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

A RED shooting rig will be more than the basic price of the camera body. However, you do make a valid point with sub $20k HD single sensor cameras now coming into the market.

Well, what you get for 14k is basically a camera body (HD200+adapter). You still need lenses, batteries, a shoulder brace etc to make it a "shooting rig" just like with RED.

Tim Brown · January 29th, 2007, 03:29 PM

I was under the impression that the HZ-CA13U COULD be used with the HD100/101 series, albeit with an inverted image. Have the specs changed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Yanagi

The HZ-CA13U can be used with all of the ProHD cameras...

Many Thanks,
Craig
__________________
Craig Yanagi
National Marketing Manager, Creation Products
JVC Professional USA

Brian Drysdale · January 29th, 2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Well, what you get for 14k is basically a camera body (HD200+adapter). You still need lenses, batteries, a shoulder brace etc to make it a "shooting rig" just like with RED.

That's what I said... only $6000 difference. I'm not getting comprehensive about either the RED or the SI, just something you can record onto.

Miklos Philips · January 29th, 2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

http://www.timdashwood.com/.Public/craig2.ts

This last link is dead Tim. Thnx

Tim Dashwood · January 29th, 2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

I was under the impression that the HZ-CA13U COULD be used with the HD100/101 series, albeit with an inverted image. Have the specs changed?

It will work on the HD100/101, but it would be very difficult to operate with the inverted image.
The HD110/111 will invert the image while shooting, but not record that way to tape - requiring a flip/flop in post.
The HD200/250 will invert the image while shooting and on the tape.

Tim Dashwood · January 29th, 2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miklos Philips

This last link is dead Tim. Thnx

Thanks for catching that. Fixed.

Taylor Wigton · January 29th, 2007, 07:30 PM

Most surprising was how much the optical engineers have improved on this unit since I was led into a secret underground bunker somewhere in the Nevada desert (just kidding) and shown the UNIT last November '06. It looked "not good." Looking at what Tim has shot here is 1000 times better then what I saw 3 months ago. Not exaggerating here folks. So despite all the elements that may still need improvements or the flaws people are pointing out, nonethelss, I gotta tip my hat to JVC for taking what I thought would be a PR nightmare and actually turning out a real and viable product.

And Jon Fauer is an unbiased and respected ASC DP who I can only imagine put this device through very rigorous testing. Smart move in giving the unit to Mr Fauer for his analysis which I am sure we will find in his newsletter. And under the circumstances, Tim did a fantastic job of winging it sight unseen. I've been a part of those quick and dirty test shoots and IMOP, the lack of time to prepare sorta indicates that we are looking at all the elements combined in a less then optimum light. Almost better that way, as we can get the "raw and uncensored" version. also the onine compression needs to be factored in as well.

I'm sure the engineers are still refining this unit and listening carefully to the talk on the boards and forums. All great stuff- that is how they deliver the best product possible, so the analysis of Tim and Craig's shoot is win win for all of us.

RE: DOF. Shooting wide open on 16mm lens's will give a fair degree of selective focus options. Hence the Digiprime with a 2/3" CCD which at T1.6 will get you an equivalent T2.8/4 split if you had the exact same 35mm Lens FOV side by side with the Digiprime. The link below from Abel Cine web site has a nice graphic that reveals that the 16mm frame size is slightly larger then the 2/3" CCD imager.

http://www.abelcine.com/articles/ind...d=85&Itemid=34

At the end of the day, I think it a very interesting development and certainly a valid tool that we can rent of buy to add to our arsenal. My theory is that this is just the beginning of this sort of non GG adapter. In two years, other manufacturer's will strike back and before long something really extraordinary will be out at a very reasonable price. The 1/3" CCD HD market is going NOWHERE, so this is going to capture the attention of the best optical engineers on the planet. Shorter, better, cheaper, 16, 35 cine, 35 SLR..... A great advancement here!

All the best, and very cool of Tim and Craig for having the courage to wing it in the cold and amist the crowds, no 1stAC, and just see what happens.

Jason Nolte · February 6th, 2007, 01:19 PM

Tim:

How does this setup compare with the Fujinon 13x lens? Thx.

Phil Bloom · February 6th, 2007, 06:38 PM

excuse my ignorance but I dont get how the DOF can be any different without GG, surely it is just a lens adaptor to let you use 16mm lenses..

You are using better glass but the imaging sensors capturing the image are still just 1/3rd inch.

If I am wrong please tell me!!

Tim Dashwood · February 6th, 2007, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

excuse my ignorance but I dont get how the DOF can be any different without GG, surely it is just a lens adaptor to let you use 16mm lenses..

You are using better glass but the imaging sensors capturing the image are still just 1/3rd inch.

If I am wrong please tell me!!

Nope, it isn't just a simple bayonet to PL mount adapter. Simple adapters like you described are available, but this device is very different.
The brilliance of the optical engineering in the device is the fact that they managed to create a re-imager without a ground-glass.
I can't explain the exact science behind how it works because I just don't know, but there are other optical elements inside that reduce the projected image into the 1/3" frame size after it has been resolved at the 52mm focal plane.

The only similar device I can think of is the Angenieux/Zeiss CLA 35HD designed for 2/3" CCD.

Matt Norman · February 27th, 2007, 03:49 AM

Hi all,

With the new upcoming HZ-CA13U mount soon to be unleashed on the World, you can bet your bottom dollar that as indi film-makers we are about to be given the fresh breath of air needed to go to town with the best technology JVC has to offer. This adapter will do to feature indi films as butter did to bread. The footage you've shot here looks incredible. I know for a fact that my 251 is already starting to get excited about what's ahead for the coming year in production with this new adapter.

In all seriousness, forget REDROCK, forget P&S... this baby will make your best friend marriage material. With the typical brilliance of JVC quality behind it and the superb DOF this piece of hardware can do, i'm converted completely.

All I can say is WOW, WOW, WOW.... JVC you've listened, learnt and weaved your amazing magic on the world of indi film making. I personally thank you and can't wait to shoot my upcoming feature with this puppy.

Long live our friends at JVC. You make every day on set an exceptional day.

ps - to all my friends on this forum, stay tuned for some exceptionally great news from my company The Actors Cafe as we hit Hollywood.

Matt Norman.
www.theactorscafe.com
www.salutethemovie.com

Eric Ramahatra · September 17th, 2007, 09:39 AM

i really do not understand why could Angenieux build a 35mm to 2/3 adapter, why could JVC build a 16mm to 1/3 adapter...

And why don't they build a 35mm to 1/3 adapter ?!!!

with nikon mount of course... ;-)

Tim Dashwood · September 17th, 2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Ramahatra

i really do not understand why could Angenieux build a 35mm to 2/3 adapter, why could JVC build a 16mm to 1/3 adapter...

And why don't they build a 35mm to 1/3 adapter ?!!!

The laws of physics (Lagrange/Optical Invariant) say that the largest usable aperture would be F/5.6 ¼.

Max aperture on camera x (entry field size / exit field size) = maximum aperture on taking side

Rated opening on ProHD cameras: F/1.4
35mm field size (academy motion picture): 21mm horizontal
1/3" field size (16x9 used on ProHD): 4.8mm

1.4(21/4.8)=6.125 or f5.6 ¼

You would theoretically get much more transmittance (equivalent to F/2 and a half when set to F/5.6) but your depth of field would be based on F/5.6 even if you opened as much as F/1.4. That would kind of defeat the purpose.

Angenieuz/Zeiss' adapter has a maximum usable aperture of F/3.5 because they are only compressing down to 2/3". (and that adapter sold in the $25,000 + range)

Eric Ramahatra · September 19th, 2007, 06:48 AM

very great math answer ! didn't saw it that way...
possible does not mean usable...

thanks tim

Scott Cantrell · September 19th, 2007, 03:59 PM

TapeWorks Texas Inc currently has QTY 1 Demo'd HZCA13U adaptor available at discounted pricing. Please contact us toll free 866-827-3489 if you are interested.

Best Regards,
Scott Cantrell
TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser
scott@tapeworkstexas.com

January 29th, 2007, 07:30 PM	#52
Taylor Wigton Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 50	Most surprising was how much the optical engineers have improved on this unit since I was led into a secret underground bunker somewhere in the Nevada desert (just kidding) and shown the UNIT last November '06. It looked "not good." Looking at what Tim has shot here is 1000 times better then what I saw 3 months ago. Not exaggerating here folks. So despite all the elements that may still need improvements or the flaws people are pointing out, nonethelss, I gotta tip my hat to JVC for taking what I thought would be a PR nightmare and actually turning out a real and viable product. And Jon Fauer is an unbiased and respected ASC DP who I can only imagine put this device through very rigorous testing. Smart move in giving the unit to Mr Fauer for his analysis which I am sure we will find in his newsletter. And under the circumstances, Tim did a fantastic job of winging it sight unseen. I've been a part of those quick and dirty test shoots and IMOP, the lack of time to prepare sorta indicates that we are looking at all the elements combined in a less then optimum light. Almost better that way, as we can get the "raw and uncensored" version. also the onine compression needs to be factored in as well. I'm sure the engineers are still refining this unit and listening carefully to the talk on the boards and forums. All great stuff- that is how they deliver the best product possible, so the analysis of Tim and Craig's shoot is win win for all of us. RE: DOF. Shooting wide open on 16mm lens's will give a fair degree of selective focus options. Hence the Digiprime with a 2/3" CCD which at T1.6 will get you an equivalent T2.8/4 split if you had the exact same 35mm Lens FOV side by side with the Digiprime. The link below from Abel Cine web site has a nice graphic that reveals that the 16mm frame size is slightly larger then the 2/3" CCD imager. http://www.abelcine.com/articles/ind...d=85&Itemid=34 At the end of the day, I think it a very interesting development and certainly a valid tool that we can rent of buy to add to our arsenal. My theory is that this is just the beginning of this sort of non GG adapter. In two years, other manufacturer's will strike back and before long something really extraordinary will be out at a very reasonable price. The 1/3" CCD HD market is going NOWHERE, so this is going to capture the attention of the best optical engineers on the planet. Shorter, better, cheaper, 16, 35 cine, 35 SLR..... A great advancement here! All the best, and very cool of Tim and Craig for having the courage to wing it in the cold and amist the crowds, no 1stAC, and just see what happens. __________________ Taylor Wigton DP, Los Angeles

February 6th, 2007, 06:38 PM	#54
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	excuse my ignorance but I dont get how the DOF can be any different without GG, surely it is just a lens adaptor to let you use 16mm lenses.. You are using better glass but the imaging sensors capturing the image are still just 1/3rd inch. If I am wrong please tell me!! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 27th, 2007, 03:49 AM	#56
Matt Norman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	Ouch, JVC must have the biggest smile in the world right now. Hi all, With the new upcoming HZ-CA13U mount soon to be unleashed on the World, you can bet your bottom dollar that as indi film-makers we are about to be given the fresh breath of air needed to go to town with the best technology JVC has to offer. This adapter will do to feature indi films as butter did to bread. The footage you've shot here looks incredible. I know for a fact that my 251 is already starting to get excited about what's ahead for the coming year in production with this new adapter. In all seriousness, forget REDROCK, forget P&S... this baby will make your best friend marriage material. With the typical brilliance of JVC quality behind it and the superb DOF this piece of hardware can do, i'm converted completely. All I can say is WOW, WOW, WOW.... JVC you've listened, learnt and weaved your amazing magic on the world of indi film making. I personally thank you and can't wait to shoot my upcoming feature with this puppy. Long live our friends at JVC. You make every day on set an exceptional day. ps - to all my friends on this forum, stay tuned for some exceptionally great news from my company The Actors Cafe as we hit Hollywood. Matt Norman. www.theactorscafe.com www.salutethemovie.com

September 17th, 2007, 09:39 AM	#57
Eric Ramahatra Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Paris Posts: 72	i really do not understand why could Angenieux build a 35mm to 2/3 adapter, why could JVC build a 16mm to 1/3 adapter... And why don't they build a 35mm to 1/3 adapter ?!!! with nikon mount of course... ;-) __________________ JVC HD200+redrock M2+1.4 lens+steadicam Flyer mini35 weddings

September 19th, 2007, 06:48 AM	#59
Eric Ramahatra Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Paris Posts: 72	very great math answer ! didn't saw it that way... possible does not mean usable... thanks tim __________________ JVC HD200+redrock M2+1.4 lens+steadicam Flyer mini35 weddings

February 6th, 2007, 01:19 PM	#53
Jason Nolte Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 29	Tim: How does this setup compare with the Fujinon 13x lens? Thx.

September 19th, 2007, 03:59 PM	#60
Scott Cantrell Sponsor: TapeWorks Texas Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 357	TapeWorks Texas Inc currently has QTY 1 Demo'd HZCA13U adaptor available at discounted pricing. Please contact us toll free 866-827-3489 if you are interested. Best Regards, Scott Cantrell TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser scott@tapeworkstexas.com