Do you think my camera is faulty? at DVinfo.net

Dennis Robinson · January 28th, 2007, 04:32 AM

Hi, I have posted before about the judder produced by my JVC-HD111 when in HDV 720/25p mode. I am in Pal. I have studied the sites and understand about having to learn to pan slowly etc to avoid it happening but after much practise, it is still no better. They say to avoid panning... and pan very slow, but it still judders. If I track a moving car, the car is free of judder but the background isnt and that is an acceptable look. In a static shot of a street for instance with trees blowing in the wind, it looks fine but if someone walks accross the frame, they will judder.

I cant believe this is normal. If so, then I have really wasted my money with this camera. The footage is unusable. I went out to the local airport yesterday and using a tripod took a lot of footage of aircraft taking off etc. The footage is so bad the I recorded over it today in an effort to improve with another take.

I am monitoring the footage on an LCD TV and also on my G5. I am unhappy. Is my camera faulty? If I shoot SD50i it is great. I shoot TV commercials for a living and am no novice to using a camera. I had an XL1s for 3 years before. Hope you can offer an opinion.

Brian Luce · January 28th, 2007, 07:07 AM

is there a way you can post some test footage somewhere?

Scott Jaco · January 28th, 2007, 11:50 AM

Try using the motion smoothing function to help with the strobing. Also, try a slower shutter speed.

Dennis Robinson · January 28th, 2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco

Try using the motion smoothing function to help with the strobing. Also, try a slower shutter speed.

Thanks for your help Scott. I have been using the motion smoothing and was advised to try it without. It is a lot worse without it. I will try a lower shutter speed but I am only using the recommended 1/50.

Dennis Robinson · January 28th, 2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

is there a way you can post some test footage somewhere?

Here is a short clip as an example.

Jonathan Nelson · January 28th, 2007, 05:44 PM

Dennis,

I have been having the same issues as you.

My problem is that the judder gets worse once the footage is downrezzed and played from a sd dvd. From what I can tell, my workflow seems pretty standard. Capture hdv 720p24, edit 720p24, export 23.98 16:9 dual pass m2v, import into dvd studio and just burn from there.

Playing the footage strait from the deck, the footage is not nearly as juddery. Maybe my dvd player?

I tested one dvd that came from 720p24 footage. It played very juddery on my Toshiba dvd player which was connected to a 13" ntsc crt tv. I then played the same dvd on my ps3 connected to a 32" lcd tv and the judder was not nearly as noticable. I guess I should try to isolate the problem by connecting the Toshiba dvd player to the lcd.

But still, the dvd video coming out of the ps3 was still more juddery then playing the footage strait from the minidv. I am still thinking I might have a setting wrong somewhere.

If you figure out a good workflow to get around these judder issues, please post! Until I get this issue figured out, I think I might be shooting 720p30.

Dennis Robinson · January 28th, 2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Nelson

Dennis,

I have been having the same issues as you.

My problem is that the judder gets worse once the footage is downrezzed and played from a sd dvd. From what I can tell, my workflow seems pretty standard. Capture hdv 720p24, edit 720p24, export 23.98 16:9 dual pass m2v, import into dvd studio and just burn from there.

Playing the footage strait from the deck, the footage is not nearly as juddery. Maybe my dvd player?

I tested one dvd that came from 720p24 footage. It played very juddery on my Toshiba dvd player which was connected to a 13" ntsc crt tv. I then played the same dvd on my ps3 connected to a 32" lcd tv and the judder was not nearly as noticable. I guess I should try to isolate the problem by connecting the Toshiba dvd player to the lcd.

But still, the dvd video coming out of the ps3 was still more juddery then playing the footage strait from the minidv. I am still thinking I might have a setting wrong somewhere.

If you figure out a good workflow to get around these judder issues, please post! Until I get this issue figured out, I think I might be shooting 720p30.

I sent some footage to JVC this morning and they told me to get the camera into them for repairs. I am happy with that. I thought i was going mad. Lets see what happens.

Scott Jaco · January 29th, 2007, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson

I sent some footage to JVC this morning and they told me to get the camera into them for repairs. I am happy with that. I thought i was going mad. Lets see what happens.

I watched your video and to be honest, it looks about the same as my camera (when I shoot 24p). I normally use 30p for my event videography business.

Let us know if they find anything wrong, I figured all 24p was stroby like this.

I would like to shoot my next wedding in 24p but I'm worried the client won't like it.

Dennis Robinson · January 29th, 2007, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco

I watched your video and to be honest, it looks about the same as my camera (when I shoot 24p). I normally use 30p for my event videography business.

Let us know if they find anything wrong, I figured all 24p was stroby like this.

I would like to shoot my next wedding in 24p but I'm worried the client won't like it.

Hi Scott,
The JVC agent and others that have seen the footage say i have a problem with the camera. I took the motion smoothing off and it is much worse than the footage posted. I even tried 25P SD and it is worse again... so bad that looking thru the viewfinder it is so stroby, like 10 fps footage. If I shoot 50i SD it is great. Are you telling me that moving cars across a still frame presents the same judder as in my clip? If so, how do you use the footage?
There has to be something wrong.

Dennis Robinson · January 29th, 2007, 06:34 AM

Hi, Are there any others that can offer me their ideas from the footage i posted in previous post?

Werner Wesp · January 29th, 2007, 06:36 AM

I've seen Dennis' footage and there was defenately something wrong. (I haven't had time to watch the last clip you send me...)

With the right camera moves, 25p with shutter 50 (or OFF - that's the same) and the motion smoothing OFF, the footage should look fluently (the type of footage you've send me anyway...) - I have a very short fragment of sports in a clip on my website shot in 25p - and that looks absolutely fluent...

January 28th, 2007, 04:32 AM	#1
Dennis Robinson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 250	Do you think my camera is faulty? Hi, I have posted before about the judder produced by my JVC-HD111 when in HDV 720/25p mode. I am in Pal. I have studied the sites and understand about having to learn to pan slowly etc to avoid it happening but after much practise, it is still no better. They say to avoid panning... and pan very slow, but it still judders. If I track a moving car, the car is free of judder but the background isnt and that is an acceptable look. In a static shot of a street for instance with trees blowing in the wind, it looks fine but if someone walks accross the frame, they will judder. I cant believe this is normal. If so, then I have really wasted my money with this camera. The footage is unusable. I went out to the local airport yesterday and using a tripod took a lot of footage of aircraft taking off etc. The footage is so bad the I recorded over it today in an effort to improve with another take. I am monitoring the footage on an LCD TV and also on my G5. I am unhappy. Is my camera faulty? If I shoot SD50i it is great. I shoot TV commercials for a living and am no novice to using a camera. I had an XL1s for 3 years before. Hope you can offer an opinion. __________________ Dennis Robinson G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111

January 29th, 2007, 06:34 AM	#10
Dennis Robinson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 250	Hi, Are there any others that can offer me their ideas from the footage i posted in previous post? __________________ Dennis Robinson G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111

January 29th, 2007, 06:36 AM	#11
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	I've seen Dennis' footage and there was defenately something wrong. (I haven't had time to watch the last clip you send me...) With the right camera moves, 25p with shutter 50 (or OFF - that's the same) and the motion smoothing OFF, the footage should look fluently (the type of footage you've send me anyway...) - I have a very short fragment of sports in a clip on my website shot in 25p - and that looks absolutely fluent... __________________ High-Definition Video Consultant - CEO of Delimex NV - http://www.delimex.be gear of choice : http://www.wespgear.com

January 28th, 2007, 07:07 AM	#2
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	is there a way you can post some test footage somewhere?

January 28th, 2007, 11:50 AM	#3
Scott Jaco Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 471	Try using the motion smoothing function to help with the strobing. Also, try a slower shutter speed.

January 28th, 2007, 05:44 PM	#6
Jonathan Nelson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kingman Arizona Posts: 298	Dennis, I have been having the same issues as you. My problem is that the judder gets worse once the footage is downrezzed and played from a sd dvd. From what I can tell, my workflow seems pretty standard. Capture hdv 720p24, edit 720p24, export 23.98 16:9 dual pass m2v, import into dvd studio and just burn from there. Playing the footage strait from the deck, the footage is not nearly as juddery. Maybe my dvd player? I tested one dvd that came from 720p24 footage. It played very juddery on my Toshiba dvd player which was connected to a 13" ntsc crt tv. I then played the same dvd on my ps3 connected to a 32" lcd tv and the judder was not nearly as noticable. I guess I should try to isolate the problem by connecting the Toshiba dvd player to the lcd. But still, the dvd video coming out of the ps3 was still more juddery then playing the footage strait from the minidv. I am still thinking I might have a setting wrong somewhere. If you figure out a good workflow to get around these judder issues, please post! Until I get this issue figured out, I think I might be shooting 720p30.