Masked Dead Pixels Show as Black Specs at DVinfo.net

David Parks · January 11th, 2007, 04:57 PM

So, I just got my HD 100 back from JVC for warranty maintenance. I mentioned to them (through my dealer) in writing that I needed some dead pixels looked at. It looks like they ran the pixel masking routine to try to smooth them out. Only now when I see the uncompressed component output on my monitor I see about 15 or so black specs. I know that they're pixels because they flicker and are square. (Not dirt) Plus I can even see them without the lense attached.

So next, I ran the operation myself, about 8 times total and the specs are still there.

I've ran several 720/24 workflow tests to see if I could see the BLACK PIXELS when compressed into m2t, m2v, QT DNXHD 90 and DNXHD110 HDV, along with some tests in DV24p. The pixels due seem to get fainter with compression and I don't know if the average person would even notice once it goes to air or DVD. You can see them pretty good in m2v.

But, they are there . My question is that is this something I need to accept as a limitation of CCD technology or is this a problem that I need JVC to fix.

My camera is under warranty for 3 more weeks.

Thanks.

Mark Silva · January 11th, 2007, 05:44 PM

I wonder if somehow the masking is not matching up with your black level values or gamma.

David Parks · January 11th, 2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Silva

I wonder if somehow the masking is not matching up with your black level values or gamma.

Interesting theory.

If so do you think this is a calibration issue (JVC), firm ware, or user setting?

Tim Dashwood · January 11th, 2007, 07:48 PM

David, could you please attach an exported TIFF or small m2t from one of your captures?

The pixel compensation system in the HD100 is supposed to clone or average the value of the pixels around it, not just make it black.

I wonder if your monitor might have some burnt out pixels?

Stephen L. Noe · January 11th, 2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Parks

So, I just got my HD 100 back from JVC for warranty maintenance. I mentioned to them (through my dealer) in writing that I needed some dead pixels looked at. It looks like they ran the pixel masking routine to try to smooth them out. Only now when I see the uncompressed component output on my monitor I see about 15 or so black specs. I know that they're pixels because they flicker and are square. (Not dirt) Plus I can even see them without the lense attached.

So next, I ran the operation myself, about 8 times total and the specs are still there.

I've ran several 720/24 workflow tests to see if I could see the BLACK PIXELS when compressed into m2t, m2v, QT DNXHD 90 and DNXHD110 HDV, along with some tests in DV24p. The pixels due seem to get fainter with compression and I don't know if the average person would even notice once it goes to air or DVD. You can see them pretty good in m2v.

But, they are there . My question is that is this something I need to accept as a limitation of CCD technology or is this a problem that I need JVC to fix.

My camera is under warranty for 3 more weeks.

Thanks.

I'd turn the camera right around and send it back in immediately.

David Parks · January 11th, 2007, 09:24 PM

Here's 4 tiff's from the original m2t. I purposely used out of focus shots so you can see that it is not part of the environment. Sorry I had to winzip because of site file limitations.

David Parks · January 11th, 2007, 09:30 PM

Here are some shots exported out of Liquid (m2v) to tif.

David Parks · January 11th, 2007, 09:34 PM

2 more tif from m2v.

David Parks · January 11th, 2007, 09:39 PM

Tim or Stephen, If you get a chance, I hope you can glance at these. I know for a fact that it is not my monitor, and some of these pixels appeared as white dead pixels before. They seem to stand out against a solid background the most, like the blinds in the shot. By the way, these were viewed on a 1400x900 pixel 19inch Westinghouse, straight out of the camera, and within Avid Liquid full screen.

Thanks, Greatly appreciated.

ps, If these aren't funky pixels then I need to go to the eye doctor.

Stephen L. Noe · January 12th, 2007, 06:41 AM

The only suggestion I could make to the issue is to try and run the pixel mask routine yourself and see if it's any better. If it's not then send the camera back in. Your images show ALOT of specks all over the place.

Another thing to try is to put your camera's shutter speed to a low number. Do you have specks all over the screen? Put your lens cap on, do you have specks all over the scene?

Jiri Bakala · January 12th, 2007, 08:02 AM

Any chance that it's dust on the sensor?

David Parks · January 12th, 2007, 09:26 AM

Thanks, Stephen for looking at the tiff's. I lowered the shutter to 1/6th and man, tons of white pixels show up. It looks like a hail storm. With and without the lens and lens cap.

I'm a little worried that JVC won't do anything, my dealer knows nothing about this camera and they're not authorized to even touch it.

Since this has already been to JVC once is there someone within JVC that could look at this?

Not much time left on the warranty.

Thanks.

Tim Dashwood · January 13th, 2007, 10:50 AM

David,

It looks like Carl Hicks is your district rep, but he hasn't posted here since Monday so he's probably busy at CES and hasn't read this thread.

Here's his contact info as posted on the JVC Site.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/d...&zipcode=77001

If you can't reach Carl on Monday, try calling 1-800-582-5825 tech support and find out what your next step should be.

David Parks · January 13th, 2007, 01:23 PM

Thanks Tim, much appreciated.

Cheers.

Terry Nixon · January 13th, 2007, 03:05 PM

CES is for consumer products.
you can probably reach Carl Hicks on Monday. He's pretty good and making himself available.
You can also contact the JVC sales engineer, Rob Yaroush, listed on the previous link and discuss your situation.

January 11th, 2007, 04:57 PM	#1
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Masked Dead Pixels Show as Black Specs So, I just got my HD 100 back from JVC for warranty maintenance. I mentioned to them (through my dealer) in writing that I needed some dead pixels looked at. It looks like they ran the pixel masking routine to try to smooth them out. Only now when I see the uncompressed component output on my monitor I see about 15 or so black specs. I know that they're pixels because they flicker and are square. (Not dirt) Plus I can even see them without the lense attached. So next, I ran the operation myself, about 8 times total and the specs are still there. I've ran several 720/24 workflow tests to see if I could see the BLACK PIXELS when compressed into m2t, m2v, QT DNXHD 90 and DNXHD110 HDV, along with some tests in DV24p. The pixels due seem to get fainter with compression and I don't know if the average person would even notice once it goes to air or DVD. You can see them pretty good in m2v. But, they are there . My question is that is this something I need to accept as a limitation of CCD technology or is this a problem that I need JVC to fix. My camera is under warranty for 3 more weeks. Thanks. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

January 11th, 2007, 07:48 PM	#4
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	David, could you please attach an exported TIFF or small m2t from one of your captures? The pixel compensation system in the HD100 is supposed to clone or average the value of the pixels around it, not just make it black. I wonder if your monitor might have some burnt out pixels? __________________ Tim Dashwood

January 11th, 2007, 09:39 PM	#9
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Tim or Stephen, If you get a chance, I hope you can glance at these. I know for a fact that it is not my monitor, and some of these pixels appeared as white dead pixels before. They seem to stand out against a solid background the most, like the blinds in the shot. By the way, these were viewed on a 1400x900 pixel 19inch Westinghouse, straight out of the camera, and within Avid Liquid full screen. Thanks, Greatly appreciated. ps, If these aren't funky pixels then I need to go to the eye doctor. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG Last edited by David Parks; January 11th, 2007 at 10:16 PM.

January 12th, 2007, 06:41 AM	#10
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	The only suggestion I could make to the issue is to try and run the pixel mask routine yourself and see if it's any better. If it's not then send the camera back in. Your images show ALOT of specks all over the place. Another thing to try is to put your camera's shutter speed to a low number. Do you have specks all over the screen? Put your lens cap on, do you have specks all over the scene? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Advanced Avid Liquid Training found Here

January 12th, 2007, 08:02 AM	#11
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	Any chance that it's dust on the sensor? __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

January 11th, 2007, 05:44 PM	#2
Mark Silva Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 431	I wonder if somehow the masking is not matching up with your black level values or gamma.

January 12th, 2007, 09:26 AM	#12
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Thanks, Stephen for looking at the tiff's. I lowered the shutter to 1/6th and man, tons of white pixels show up. It looks like a hail storm. With and without the lens and lens cap. I'm a little worried that JVC won't do anything, my dealer knows nothing about this camera and they're not authorized to even touch it. Since this has already been to JVC once is there someone within JVC that could look at this? Not much time left on the warranty. Thanks. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

January 13th, 2007, 10:50 AM	#13
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	David, It looks like Carl Hicks is your district rep, but he hasn't posted here since Monday so he's probably busy at CES and hasn't read this thread. Here's his contact info as posted on the JVC Site. http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/d...&zipcode=77001 If you can't reach Carl on Monday, try calling 1-800-582-5825 tech support and find out what your next step should be. __________________ Tim Dashwood

January 13th, 2007, 01:23 PM	#14
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Thanks Tim, much appreciated. Cheers. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

January 13th, 2007, 03:05 PM	#15
Terry Nixon Texas Media Systems DVi Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 289	CES is for consumer products. you can probably reach Carl Hicks on Monday. He's pretty good and making himself available. You can also contact the JVC sales engineer, Rob Yaroush, listed on the previous link and discuss your situation.