BR-HD50 TC confusion at DVinfo.net

Neil Boone · January 10th, 2007, 08:20 PM

I have captured 10bit uncompressed footage via my Kona2 to FCP. I am now attempting to make a DV version of the footage(originally DigiBeta) for a client to use on their system. I need accurate timecode and cannot seem to get my BR-HD50 to record timecode AT ALL. It just sits on zeros most of the time and occasionally glitches forward a frame or two but that's it. I have re-read a lot of my deck materials and things online. In none of the brochures have I read that DV mode will support 525i 29.97 output from my machine, it instead says something about 576i or something like that. I have no trouble dubbing from deck to deck (both BR-HD50's) via firewire with precise timecode, so what's the deal here? As usual for these threads I need to know something ASAP if there is anyone who's encountered this as delivery of these is set for..... say it together.... Tomorrow!

Thanks a lot,

Neil Boone · January 10th, 2007, 08:36 PM

So I kept researching and found I had linked to some euro-only output advice. Of course I need to send a 480i signal out to the little deck for firewire DV timecode correct? How do I do this is the real question, without a render in FCP? Haven't tried it out yet just thought I'd point out my own oversight.

Mark Silva · January 11th, 2007, 11:20 AM

are you getting a signal to the deck?

if all the concern is timecode, I'm afraid your out of luck.

The BRHD50U does not do insert editing.

We just layed back some uncompressed 10-bit to our HD50U
(we're on black magic multibridge extreme hardware)

we basically just input our composite out to the HD50u, hit record
on the deck, wait a minute or so then hit play on the timeline.

Jiri Bakala · January 11th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Silva

We just layed back some uncompressed 10-bit to our HD50U
(we're on black magic multibridge extreme hardware)

we basically just input our composite out to the HD50u, hit record
on the deck, wait a minute or so then hit play on the timeline.

That's interesting...wouldn't it be better to go back to the deck via FW? I guess that would constitute a transcode to DV or HDV...?

Neil Boone · January 11th, 2007, 02:12 PM

To answer your question, yes I'm getting an image and even perfect sound, just no numbers (I'm using firewire by the way, it's downconverting it just fine on the fly). The timecode appears totally impossible to duplicate, even though JVC support has told me it should work... no result. I've even tried it with my RS-422 on the JVC along with firewire. So that's it. What is weird though is that the JVC doesn't seem to want to roll ANY kind of timecode whatsoever from an FCP output. It dubs from deck to deck fine, creating a perfect clone but so far nothing from FCP output. That could be setting the TC duplicate to off but we'll see. 2 more try with JVC and AJA, if nothing after that then oh well. Thanks you guys for responding.

Tim Dashwood · January 11th, 2007, 04:44 PM

Neil,

FCP doesn't output TC for slaving via FW or RS-422. It doesn't have a built in generator.
You need to turn off external TC input, prestripe the first minute or so of a tape with preset TC, then use REGEN TC and do an assemble edit with Edit To Tape. It will work with firewire or RS-422.

Mark Silva · January 11th, 2007, 05:46 PM

Tim, so you can insert via assembly with the methodology you outlined?

Nice!

Tim Dashwood · January 11th, 2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Silva

Tim, so you can insert via assembly with the methodology you outlined?

Nice!

Sure, just like any other deck.

Neil Boone · January 12th, 2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Neil,

FCP doesn't output TC for slaving via FW or RS-422. It doesn't have a built in generator.
You need to turn off external TC input, prestripe the first minute or so of a tape with preset TC, then use REGEN TC and do an assemble edit with Edit To Tape. It will work with firewire or RS-422.

Turn off external TC input on the deck i'll assume? Prestripe the tape just in the deck by itself, or with edit to tape blacking procedure? Then use REGEN, ok but how do I start with 00:58:42:26 as the beginning timecode I need to match with my original Beta capture? Thanks, i'll try that out some, but before I couldn't seem to force the timecode I wanted to start with. I've also been testing with a tape with TC already on it.

Tim Dashwood · January 12th, 2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Boone

Turn off external TC input on the deck i'll assume? Prestripe the tape just in the deck by itself, or with edit to tape blacking procedure? Then use REGEN, ok but how do I start with 00:58:42:26 as the beginning timecode I need to match with my original Beta capture? Thanks, i'll try that out some, but before I couldn't seem to force the timecode I wanted to start with. I've also been testing with a tape with TC already on it.

The BR-HD50 works just like a BetaSP deck, except there isn't a physical switch for REGEN, PRESET, or EXT TC.

So, in the TC menu set the TGC SELECT to PRESET.
Set NDF/DF to your preference for your master. DF is what is normally used for masters.

Turn off TC DUPLI. - This is like EXT TC on a Beta Deck.

Now you can exit the menu.

Press the HOLD button on the front of the deck and use the green arrow keys to set 09:58:00:00 as the start TC (or whatever you want.) Press the SET button when you are finished.

Make sure you are sending clean black to the deck on whatever input you plan to use and then press REC+PLAY to record some black. You won't be able to do insert edits in HDV or DV mode anyway, so you only need enough code on the tape for an in point and you will do an assembly edit.

Remember to go back into the menu and switch the TCG back to REGEN.

Now use FCP's Edit to Tape to do an assemble edit.

Neil Boone · January 15th, 2007, 12:20 PM

So I pulled all that off and just ended up coming out with a dub that was exactly one second later than the actual time it should have been, I stopped there but that may be a limitation of the process i guess where you can get it to within one second accuracy. I'm not sure I had to move on, thanks for all the good help though I know so much more about these BR-HD50's now.

Tim Dashwood · January 15th, 2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Boone

So I pulled all that off and just ended up coming out with a dub that was exactly one second later than the actual time it should have been, I stopped there but that may be a limitation of the process i guess where you can get it to within one second accuracy. I'm not sure I had to move on, thanks for all the good help though I know so much more about these BR-HD50's now.

You should have accuracy to the frame. Is this a consistent phenomenon? If so, then you need to set the offset for your timecode.
Also, make sure that the TC offset option is not adjusted on the deck. It should remain on the factory default. Offsets should only be set on the software control side.
Are you using firewire or RS-422 for deck control. If you are using RS-422 for deck control and firewire for video input, then there will be about a 1 second delay due to firewire latency. This is no big deal, but you will have to create a RS-422 device control preset with the proper offset.

I can help you figure out your offset if you let me know the exact in/out/control setup.

Neil Boone · January 15th, 2007, 10:56 PM

I thought that may be the way to solve my problem actually, it just seems there are several places to set an offset so i didn't know which one to try first. Sounds like setting that in device controll settings is the way to go though? Like i said this seems to be more time than it's worth for me to do, unless they agree to a high dub charge since i have to actually capture footage instead of just going deck to deck (digibeta -to- br-hd50) doubling the time to do the dub. It is great to know how to pull it off now though.

January 10th, 2007, 08:20 PM	#1
Neil Boone New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 19	BR-HD50 TC confusion I have captured 10bit uncompressed footage via my Kona2 to FCP. I am now attempting to make a DV version of the footage(originally DigiBeta) for a client to use on their system. I need accurate timecode and cannot seem to get my BR-HD50 to record timecode AT ALL. It just sits on zeros most of the time and occasionally glitches forward a frame or two but that's it. I have re-read a lot of my deck materials and things online. In none of the brochures have I read that DV mode will support 525i 29.97 output from my machine, it instead says something about 576i or something like that. I have no trouble dubbing from deck to deck (both BR-HD50's) via firewire with precise timecode, so what's the deal here? As usual for these threads I need to know something ASAP if there is anyone who's encountered this as delivery of these is set for..... say it together.... Tomorrow! Thanks a lot,

January 10th, 2007, 08:36 PM	#2
Neil Boone New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 19	more So I kept researching and found I had linked to some euro-only output advice. Of course I need to send a 480i signal out to the little deck for firewire DV timecode correct? How do I do this is the real question, without a render in FCP? Haven't tried it out yet just thought I'd point out my own oversight.

January 11th, 2007, 02:12 PM	#5
Neil Boone New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 19	True To answer your question, yes I'm getting an image and even perfect sound, just no numbers (I'm using firewire by the way, it's downconverting it just fine on the fly). The timecode appears totally impossible to duplicate, even though JVC support has told me it should work... no result. I've even tried it with my RS-422 on the JVC along with firewire. So that's it. What is weird though is that the JVC doesn't seem to want to roll ANY kind of timecode whatsoever from an FCP output. It dubs from deck to deck fine, creating a perfect clone but so far nothing from FCP output. That could be setting the TC duplicate to off but we'll see. 2 more try with JVC and AJA, if nothing after that then oh well. Thanks you guys for responding.

January 11th, 2007, 04:44 PM	#6
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Neil, FCP doesn't output TC for slaving via FW or RS-422. It doesn't have a built in generator. You need to turn off external TC input, prestripe the first minute or so of a tape with preset TC, then use REGEN TC and do an assemble edit with Edit To Tape. It will work with firewire or RS-422. __________________ Tim Dashwood

January 15th, 2007, 12:20 PM	#11
Neil Boone New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 19	done & done So I pulled all that off and just ended up coming out with a dub that was exactly one second later than the actual time it should have been, I stopped there but that may be a limitation of the process i guess where you can get it to within one second accuracy. I'm not sure I had to move on, thanks for all the good help though I know so much more about these BR-HD50's now.

January 11th, 2007, 11:20 AM	#3
Mark Silva Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 431	are you getting a signal to the deck? if all the concern is timecode, I'm afraid your out of luck. The BRHD50U does not do insert editing. We just layed back some uncompressed 10-bit to our HD50U (we're on black magic multibridge extreme hardware) we basically just input our composite out to the HD50u, hit record on the deck, wait a minute or so then hit play on the timeline.

January 11th, 2007, 05:46 PM	#7
Mark Silva Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 431	Tim, so you can insert via assembly with the methodology you outlined? Nice!

January 15th, 2007, 10:56 PM	#13
Neil Boone New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 19	yes I thought that may be the way to solve my problem actually, it just seems there are several places to set an offset so i didn't know which one to try first. Sounds like setting that in device controll settings is the way to go though? Like i said this seems to be more time than it's worth for me to do, unless they agree to a high dub charge since i have to actually capture footage instead of just going deck to deck (digibeta -to- br-hd50) doubling the time to do the dub. It is great to know how to pull it off now though.