JVC GY-HD251 --- Incredible camera at DVinfo.net

Matt Norman · January 8th, 2007, 03:58 AM

Hi there,

Just wanted to let you know that I am now a professional converted user of the hd251. I have been using a lot of camera's in the last few years eg. DVX100 then the CANON XLH1 but the difference is pretty much everything is that the HD251 is far superior in quality, setups, lighting ease and mostly visually incredible if you are looking for the film look.

I have just finished a full feature documentary film which will be released theatrically across the United States, Asia, Europe and finally Australia in the coming months. My next film is currently in the final stages of development which will be shot completely on the 251. The exciting stuff for me is that for the past few weeks I've been testing the camera in variations of different natural light as well pro light scenarios and every thing I thought wouldn't be possible with a camera like this has completely blown me away.

I currently test the footage on a HD PLASMA and am completely blown away with what i'm actually seeing. The DR100 is definately the only HDD system I would use and so far is the only one that has been suggested for use with this camera. For those of you waiting around for the next big thing then take it from me.... the JVC has really out done themselves with the 251. Great for films, documentary, tv commercials, music video's etc. I could not recommend this more.

I had someone ask me the other day if I could compare it to the new RED camera which seems to be coming out later this year. The simple answer is "YES" i can confidently say that I would choose the JVC over RED for a few reasons:

1. The camera body itself on the RED is about $17000. Then you've got to get a lense. $$??
2. The expense of either getting a computer to deal with 2k or 4k post production or hiring some studio to output it is going to cost you every time you press the record button.
3. Why do that when JVC has honestly put out a product that can be used as a pro film camera with different lenses (including the chance of using prime lenses with converter) at 24fps PROGRESSIVE.

My post production process is so cheap that I spend my hard earnt money on making the camera my new best friend with all the latest gear. To make a film in today's environment you need to be always thinking of how you can do it cheaper and better than your last film. I now not only have a very cheap post production phase but I know that when it comes to shooting a big feature like i'm doing this year, that it can handle a professional standard look and feel.

For those who keep putting off buying the 251, stop. I have tested all camera's in this price bracket. I'll be honest, the XLH1 is an awesome camera, as well as the HVX200 but I now have both the XLH1 and the JVC251 and the JVC comes out of the case everytime.

Anyway, this is my first post so hi everyone and I look forward to hearing more of your stories and feedback.

More about me can be found at:

www.salutethemovie.com
www.theactorscafe.com

Kind Regards

Matt Norman
The Actors Cafe Pty Ltd
mattnorman@theactorscafe.com

Steve Benner · January 8th, 2007, 05:14 AM

RED is in a different price range than the HD250. If I ever had that kind of budget, I would go with RED. They have a decent workflow with REDCINE, which trancodes the 4K into any format or codec. You can capture in 4K in RAW or a Compressed RED CODEC which saves space. They are two completely different cameras.

Robert Castiglione · January 8th, 2007, 05:39 AM

Give the guy a break. I think he's trying to tell us why he loves the new camera and express his gratitude to JVC. I too love my JVC but sadly it is "only" a 111 though I plan to remedy that as soon as I can.

Welcome to the DV Info Net Matt and thanks for letting us know your impressions of the camera. I too have used quite a few production cameras and am very impressed with the JVC.

Further, he specifically acknowledges the price difference between the two cameras and then explains why he still prefers the JVC.

Rob

Matt Norman · January 8th, 2007, 06:19 AM

Hi Steve,

I do appreciate what you are saying and I have to say that the footage (what has been released at least) is absolutely mind blowing from the RED camera. You would have to agree that the costs involved with the RED camera as a camera is great too. My main point is that the raw or compressed footage from the RED camera is certainly going to take up a HUGE amount of space on your normal edit system and also require a kick ass system to run. Also don't forget that thus far the camera seems to be more here say than actuality. I love the fact that camera production is becoming very exciting to say the least so we as film-makers should all be smiling about advances in technology.

In regard to the JVC 251, I actually don't believe they are in a different price bracket. I believe they are in the same price bracket compared to F900's etc. I believe the biggest problem with the RED camera is yet to come. For example, have a look at the compatibility problems we've had with FCP etc just to get the 24p in the right place... can't wait to see the amount of bugs in 2K/4K edits. Unless of course it's going straight to a post prod facility.

The good thing about both the JVC and RED is the fact that people are really pushing boundary's. I started making films because of Robert Rodriguez (10 minute film school) when he said "To be a film-maker you don't need millions to make a great film. In the past several years, every single film I have made has won international acclaim and awards without spending a cent. Now that my company has a camera like the JVC GY-251, I can guarantee you that you'll be seeing more theatrical release features from me in the coming years purely because the professional camera, crew, cast and all out production techniques we use here at the company are second to none.

Thanks for the input though. Differing opinions are what forums like this are great for.

Matt Norman
The Actors Cafe Pty Ltd
www.theactorscafe.com
www.salutethemovie.com
mattnorman@theactorscafe.com

Meryem Ersoz · January 8th, 2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Norman

I'll be honest, the XLH1 is an awesome camera, as well as the HVX200 but I now have both the XLH1 and the JVC251 and the JVC comes out of the case everytime.

right here is the reason for RED...you already probably spent 18-19K experimenting to find the right camera...probably more if you're using 35mm adapters and lenses. i have personally spent around $11-12K on lower-end cameras to date--and would have spent another several thousands of dollars on the latest Canon HDV releases, easily matching or exceeding the price of a RED camera. RED offers the possibility of stopping the frustrating trickle of expenditure into lesser technologies. pay it all up front at once and be done for years to come. it's not just buying into a camera, it's also buying into a company that promises to deliver its best product first. your first "experimental" purchase will be your last. that's the real revolution.

no doubt the JVC is an outstanding camera. i'd love to have one. and an H1.and an HVX200. and a Z1 as well. but measured against the cost of trying to find the perfect camera in this new class of cameras in the $7-$20K class, i think the RED stacks up pretty nicely at its price point....

i hope they deliver it. i believe they will deliver it.

Steve Benner · January 8th, 2007, 09:38 AM

RED has complete compatibility for editing systems because of REDCINE. Through the program, you can export to the editing codec of choice up to Uncompressed HD. Listen, I am a VERY Happy JVC HD100 owner and love the camera. I am also a fan of Robert R and agree that the camera is of high quality and can deliver enough to get noticed if you have good material.

I have no money to buy RED anytime soon, but I think that the camera will be a breakthrough. That's all I was saying. I just think the two should not really be compared. RED seems to be purely for Indie film making while the Pro HD series is a camera that can do everything from film, to sports, to news and much much more.

Bob Hart · January 8th, 2007, 10:18 AM

Matt.

Good to see this story being told.

Do you know yet which network or distributor is going to exhibit your project in Australia?

Robert.

I may have mentioned this before but EMS (evaporate memory syndrome) has set in so if I am repeating. my apology in advance.

There is now a P+S Technik Mini35 already fitted up for a JVC HD100 here in Perth and I understand the owner intends to make it available for rental. He is also getting a gear set for prime lenses.

I've had a short play with it. Steve Rice has it. He trades as Darling Films.

(For other readers, this is not Darling = sweetheart. Darling Range is the escarpment immediately inland of our wonderful capital city of Perth).

Matt Norman · January 8th, 2007, 05:08 PM

Hi Bob,

It's great to see so many Aussies on these forums... In regard to my film "Salute - The Peter Norman Story", yes it is an amazing film. I am Peter's nephew so I have lived this amazing story all my life. The tragedy of this is that i've spent the last 5 years making it and now just before it's release Peter died just before we were going to the states to do publicity. Its been the hardest thing I've ever had to do, that is complete the film looking at my best mate and uncle everyday knowing that he'll never see it.

In relation to who's selling it here in Australia, Instinct Entertainment who are responsible for "Muggers", "Strange Bedfellows", etc are sales agents. We have decided to open it first in the United States as Peter is incredibly well received in the U.S as a hero to African American people because of his stance in the civil rights movement in 1968. We shot half the film in Los Angeles and the rest here in Australia with the worlds best athletes etc.

The death of Pete saw an influx of studio and network need for this film. As an example, the day after Peter died the webpage (www.salutethemovie.com) had over 800,000 hits on it. Since October last year it's had over 1.2Million hits. The really sad thing is that when he was alive he was known as the "white guy in the photo", and now he's known as one of this countries best sportsman of our generation.

Sign up to the Salute newsletter at the webpage and you'll get notified of all the dates etc. We're just doing some final touches on the film now that it has changed slightly because of Peter's death, so have pushed the release date in the U.S back a little.

Thanks mate.

Matt Norman.

Matt Norman · January 8th, 2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meryem Ersoz

right here is the reason for RED...you already probably spent 18-19K experimenting to find the right camera...probably more if you're using 35mm adapters and lenses. i have personally spent around $11-12K on lower-end cameras to date--and would have spent another several thousands of dollars on the latest Canon HDV releases, easily matching or exceeding the price of a RED camera. RED offers the possibility of stopping the frustrating trickle of expenditure into lesser technologies. pay it all up front at once and be done for years to come. it's not just buying into a camera, it's also buying into a company that promises to deliver its best product first. your first "experimental" purchase will be your last. that's the real revolution.

i hope they deliver it. i believe they will deliver it.

Hi there Meryem,

the reason I have a few cameras is because I need a few cameras because if i'm not making films i'm shooting music video's, tv commercials etc. Its just that when JVC brought out this new 200 series (i've got the 251) that I had a tinker with it and nearly fell through the floor. For me it's all about a camera that can do everything. So yes i agree that if all you are going to do is Cinema style cinematography then the RED is a great option. But for those of you like all of us here I don't think that money is well spent when the JVC is appropriate for ALL shooting styles.

Actually this is a good time to ask those of you who have fixed lenses eg Panasonic, Sony what you really think of that. I loved my DVX100 bar one point and that was the fixed lens. I don't think I could ever go back to a fixed lens camera now that i've had detachable. Kind of like going from a Harley to a scooter.

And one last thing, I also have in my camera collection the latest JVC GZMG505. This is an awesome camera for the price. It has a HDD instead of tape and shoots 16:9. Great for doco second unit shots where you have to get a camera into places that shouldn't have a camera in them. Also amazing picture quality. Another good use for them is as a DIRECTORS FINDER. Because it's so easy to look at footage you've just shot, it gives you a way of showing your DP (if you're not shooting the project yourself) what you are looking for and also good for lining up a shot to show. Just thought i'd add that. Really, Really good camera at such a low price.

Matt Norman
The Actors Cafe Pty Ltd
www.theactorscafe.com
www.salutethemovie.com
mattnorman@theactorscafe.com

Stephan Ahonen · January 8th, 2007, 05:36 PM

RED's modular system looks like a very good idea... for people who are able to baby their gear. I have some rather serious doubts about the field worthiness of something that is designed as several separate pieces instead of one cohesive unit, and has cables stringing everywhere between components just begging to be pulled loose. It's a simple reality of shooting in the field that your gear's going to take some stress. I don't consider this abuse, I consider it normal wear and tear, and if the gear can't take normal wear and tear, then it's bad gear, no matter how good the picture looks or how much you can customize it.

Unless they can demonstrate the field-worthiness of their product, I see RED being limited to narrative shooters and anyone else shooting in controlled situations.

Matt Norman · January 8th, 2007, 05:44 PM

Hi Steve,

That is a clever thought. I suppose when we all see this amazing camera being publicity driven without really much to look at in person that we can sometimes feel like moths to a light. It's the little things that most of us miss. You've raised some excellent points.

Matt Norman.

Charles Papert · January 8th, 2007, 08:17 PM

It's really not logical to make comparisons between a camera that is on the market and one that is not. Conjecture about workflow, cabling, robustness of construction is pointless until the item is available for sale.

As our beloved leader here at DVInfo.net always says, the right camera is the one that is available now and fits your needs so you can start working immediately. Waiting for the next best thing often means never getting around to making the film you are otherwise ready to make.

The one thing that I will offer as a known specification is that the 35mm-size sensor of the RED compared to the Mini35 acquisition route is a noticeably different animal indeed. While the use of a good quality prime on the JVC will result in slightly improved resolution over the 1/3" zooms available, the image quality via the optics of the Mini35 is certainly compromised compared to that of a large sensor camera, and the resulting light loss may translate into other complications such as requiring a larger lighting package or boosting gain to achieve certain shots.

Really, I think that the comparison between RED (or its potential) and the JVC is misguided, I agree that it is in a different price range. It seems to me that Matt's advice is best taken for those considering a functional camera package in the $10K or under range, that can be outfitted with higher end components as needed (the excellent wide angle Fujinon lens for example, or the Mini35 as desired).

Chris Hurd · January 8th, 2007, 08:39 PM

Indeed, it is a misguided comparison. It's apples and oranges to compare JVC Pro HD to RED, primarily due to their extreme differences in sensor size. These two become close and perhaps worthy of comparison only if the RED is configured to shoot 720p with a 2/3rd-inch B4 lens (keep in mind that it is not "just" a 2K/4K camera, but 720p and 1080p as well). However even then I'd have to say it's still an unfair comparison due to the significant difference between 1/3rd-inch and 2/2rd-inch glass, and between formats, HDV vs. REDCODE.

Obviously, JVC Pro HD with a Mini35 is another thing, but Charles is quite correct, how logical is it to make a comparison to something that isn't even shipping yet, and isn't even in the same price range anyway...

Choose what you can afford, and "now" is always the right time to buy.

Stephen L. Noe · January 8th, 2007, 08:47 PM

Let's just wait and see with the Red. Almost certainly the Red would not be a production line camera as JVC, Sony or Panasonic are. I think the Red would be a specialty camera. Maybe I'm wrong?

Anyway, the HD200/250 is a great great choice for just about any production.

Matt Norman · January 8th, 2007, 08:55 PM

Good points all round. Although as the last posts indicated why even bother talking about a camera that doesn't (for all we know) exist???? We're all in this industry and for those that aren't, there are always times when Hipe can get in the way of truth. Still suss about the $1000 GUARANTEED cashback deal that RED do? Smells of a quick way to raise money with bankable interest to me. Oh well... the greatest thing about what everyone has said is that it's being talked about. Thats what we as film-makers should do a lot more of...

I reckon the best thing we can do is wait, wait, wait and wait a little more until the RED camera comes out and we start hearing from those people that are using the camera. I suppose then will be the time that we can find out if the hipe was good or bad?? Until then I'm very happy to shouting to the world that the JVC 251 is a great piece of equipment and i'm very happy I have it in my possession.

Thanks again for all the words of wisdom.

January 8th, 2007, 03:58 AM	#1
Matt Norman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	JVC GY-HD251 --- Incredible camera Hi there, Just wanted to let you know that I am now a professional converted user of the hd251. I have been using a lot of camera's in the last few years eg. DVX100 then the CANON XLH1 but the difference is pretty much everything is that the HD251 is far superior in quality, setups, lighting ease and mostly visually incredible if you are looking for the film look. I have just finished a full feature documentary film which will be released theatrically across the United States, Asia, Europe and finally Australia in the coming months. My next film is currently in the final stages of development which will be shot completely on the 251. The exciting stuff for me is that for the past few weeks I've been testing the camera in variations of different natural light as well pro light scenarios and every thing I thought wouldn't be possible with a camera like this has completely blown me away. I currently test the footage on a HD PLASMA and am completely blown away with what i'm actually seeing. The DR100 is definately the only HDD system I would use and so far is the only one that has been suggested for use with this camera. For those of you waiting around for the next big thing then take it from me.... the JVC has really out done themselves with the 251. Great for films, documentary, tv commercials, music video's etc. I could not recommend this more. I had someone ask me the other day if I could compare it to the new RED camera which seems to be coming out later this year. The simple answer is "YES" i can confidently say that I would choose the JVC over RED for a few reasons: 1. The camera body itself on the RED is about $17000. Then you've got to get a lense. $$?? 2. The expense of either getting a computer to deal with 2k or 4k post production or hiring some studio to output it is going to cost you every time you press the record button. 3. Why do that when JVC has honestly put out a product that can be used as a pro film camera with different lenses (including the chance of using prime lenses with converter) at 24fps PROGRESSIVE. My post production process is so cheap that I spend my hard earnt money on making the camera my new best friend with all the latest gear. To make a film in today's environment you need to be always thinking of how you can do it cheaper and better than your last film. I now not only have a very cheap post production phase but I know that when it comes to shooting a big feature like i'm doing this year, that it can handle a professional standard look and feel. For those who keep putting off buying the 251, stop. I have tested all camera's in this price bracket. I'll be honest, the XLH1 is an awesome camera, as well as the HVX200 but I now have both the XLH1 and the JVC251 and the JVC comes out of the case everytime. Anyway, this is my first post so hi everyone and I look forward to hearing more of your stories and feedback. More about me can be found at: www.salutethemovie.com www.theactorscafe.com Kind Regards Matt Norman The Actors Cafe Pty Ltd mattnorman@theactorscafe.com

January 8th, 2007, 06:19 AM	#4
Matt Norman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	Thanks for your note steve Hi Steve, I do appreciate what you are saying and I have to say that the footage (what has been released at least) is absolutely mind blowing from the RED camera. You would have to agree that the costs involved with the RED camera as a camera is great too. My main point is that the raw or compressed footage from the RED camera is certainly going to take up a HUGE amount of space on your normal edit system and also require a kick ass system to run. Also don't forget that thus far the camera seems to be more here say than actuality. I love the fact that camera production is becoming very exciting to say the least so we as film-makers should all be smiling about advances in technology. In regard to the JVC 251, I actually don't believe they are in a different price bracket. I believe they are in the same price bracket compared to F900's etc. I believe the biggest problem with the RED camera is yet to come. For example, have a look at the compatibility problems we've had with FCP etc just to get the 24p in the right place... can't wait to see the amount of bugs in 2K/4K edits. Unless of course it's going straight to a post prod facility. The good thing about both the JVC and RED is the fact that people are really pushing boundary's. I started making films because of Robert Rodriguez (10 minute film school) when he said "To be a film-maker you don't need millions to make a great film. In the past several years, every single film I have made has won international acclaim and awards without spending a cent. Now that my company has a camera like the JVC GY-251, I can guarantee you that you'll be seeing more theatrical release features from me in the coming years purely because the professional camera, crew, cast and all out production techniques we use here at the company are second to none. Thanks for the input though. Differing opinions are what forums like this are great for. Matt Norman The Actors Cafe Pty Ltd www.theactorscafe.com www.salutethemovie.com mattnorman@theactorscafe.com

January 8th, 2007, 05:08 PM	#8
Matt Norman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	Salute Hi Bob, It's great to see so many Aussies on these forums... In regard to my film "Salute - The Peter Norman Story", yes it is an amazing film. I am Peter's nephew so I have lived this amazing story all my life. The tragedy of this is that i've spent the last 5 years making it and now just before it's release Peter died just before we were going to the states to do publicity. Its been the hardest thing I've ever had to do, that is complete the film looking at my best mate and uncle everyday knowing that he'll never see it. In relation to who's selling it here in Australia, Instinct Entertainment who are responsible for "Muggers", "Strange Bedfellows", etc are sales agents. We have decided to open it first in the United States as Peter is incredibly well received in the U.S as a hero to African American people because of his stance in the civil rights movement in 1968. We shot half the film in Los Angeles and the rest here in Australia with the worlds best athletes etc. The death of Pete saw an influx of studio and network need for this film. As an example, the day after Peter died the webpage (www.salutethemovie.com) had over 800,000 hits on it. Since October last year it's had over 1.2Million hits. The really sad thing is that when he was alive he was known as the "white guy in the photo", and now he's known as one of this countries best sportsman of our generation. Sign up to the Salute newsletter at the webpage and you'll get notified of all the dates etc. We're just doing some final touches on the film now that it has changed slightly because of Peter's death, so have pushed the release date in the U.S back a little. Thanks mate. Matt Norman.

January 8th, 2007, 05:44 PM	#11
Matt Norman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	a good thought. Hi Steve, That is a clever thought. I suppose when we all see this amazing camera being publicity driven without really much to look at in person that we can sometimes feel like moths to a light. It's the little things that most of us miss. You've raised some excellent points. Matt Norman.

January 8th, 2007, 08:17 PM	#12
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	It's really not logical to make comparisons between a camera that is on the market and one that is not. Conjecture about workflow, cabling, robustness of construction is pointless until the item is available for sale. As our beloved leader here at DVInfo.net always says, the right camera is the one that is available now and fits your needs so you can start working immediately. Waiting for the next best thing often means never getting around to making the film you are otherwise ready to make. The one thing that I will offer as a known specification is that the 35mm-size sensor of the RED compared to the Mini35 acquisition route is a noticeably different animal indeed. While the use of a good quality prime on the JVC will result in slightly improved resolution over the 1/3" zooms available, the image quality via the optics of the Mini35 is certainly compromised compared to that of a large sensor camera, and the resulting light loss may translate into other complications such as requiring a larger lighting package or boosting gain to achieve certain shots. Really, I think that the comparison between RED (or its potential) and the JVC is misguided, I agree that it is in a different price range. It seems to me that Matt's advice is best taken for those considering a functional camera package in the $10K or under range, that can be outfitted with higher end components as needed (the excellent wide angle Fujinon lens for example, or the Mini35 as desired). __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 8th, 2007, 05:14 AM	#2
Steve Benner Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 590	RED is in a different price range than the HD250. If I ever had that kind of budget, I would go with RED. They have a decent workflow with REDCINE, which trancodes the 4K into any format or codec. You can capture in 4K in RAW or a Compressed RED CODEC which saves space. They are two completely different cameras.

January 8th, 2007, 05:39 AM	#3
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Give the guy a break. I think he's trying to tell us why he loves the new camera and express his gratitude to JVC. I too love my JVC but sadly it is "only" a 111 though I plan to remedy that as soon as I can. Welcome to the DV Info Net Matt and thanks for letting us know your impressions of the camera. I too have used quite a few production cameras and am very impressed with the JVC. Further, he specifically acknowledges the price difference between the two cameras and then explains why he still prefers the JVC. Rob

January 8th, 2007, 09:38 AM	#6
Steve Benner Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 590	RED has complete compatibility for editing systems because of REDCINE. Through the program, you can export to the editing codec of choice up to Uncompressed HD. Listen, I am a VERY Happy JVC HD100 owner and love the camera. I am also a fan of Robert R and agree that the camera is of high quality and can deliver enough to get noticed if you have good material. I have no money to buy RED anytime soon, but I think that the camera will be a breakthrough. That's all I was saying. I just think the two should not really be compared. RED seems to be purely for Indie film making while the Pro HD series is a camera that can do everything from film, to sports, to news and much much more.

January 8th, 2007, 10:18 AM	#7
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Matt. Good to see this story being told. Do you know yet which network or distributor is going to exhibit your project in Australia? Robert. I may have mentioned this before but EMS (evaporate memory syndrome) has set in so if I am repeating. my apology in advance. There is now a P+S Technik Mini35 already fitted up for a JVC HD100 here in Perth and I understand the owner intends to make it available for rental. He is also getting a gear set for prime lenses. I've had a short play with it. Steve Rice has it. He trades as Darling Films. (For other readers, this is not Darling = sweetheart. Darling Range is the escarpment immediately inland of our wonderful capital city of Perth).

January 8th, 2007, 05:36 PM	#10
Stephan Ahonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	RED's modular system looks like a very good idea... for people who are able to baby their gear. I have some rather serious doubts about the field worthiness of something that is designed as several separate pieces instead of one cohesive unit, and has cables stringing everywhere between components just begging to be pulled loose. It's a simple reality of shooting in the field that your gear's going to take some stress. I don't consider this abuse, I consider it normal wear and tear, and if the gear can't take normal wear and tear, then it's bad gear, no matter how good the picture looks or how much you can customize it. Unless they can demonstrate the field-worthiness of their product, I see RED being limited to narrative shooters and anyone else shooting in controlled situations.

January 8th, 2007, 08:39 PM	#13
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Indeed, it is a misguided comparison. It's apples and oranges to compare JVC Pro HD to RED, primarily due to their extreme differences in sensor size. These two become close and perhaps worthy of comparison only if the RED is configured to shoot 720p with a 2/3rd-inch B4 lens (keep in mind that it is not "just" a 2K/4K camera, but 720p and 1080p as well). However even then I'd have to say it's still an unfair comparison due to the significant difference between 1/3rd-inch and 2/2rd-inch glass, and between formats, HDV vs. REDCODE. Obviously, JVC Pro HD with a Mini35 is another thing, but Charles is quite correct, how logical is it to make a comparison to something that isn't even shipping yet, and isn't even in the same price range anyway... Choose what you can afford, and "now" is always the right time to buy. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 8th, 2007, 08:47 PM	#14
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Let's just wait and see with the Red. Almost certainly the Red would not be a production line camera as JVC, Sony or Panasonic are. I think the Red would be a specialty camera. Maybe I'm wrong? Anyway, the HD200/250 is a great great choice for just about any production. __________________ Advanced Avid Liquid Training found Here

January 8th, 2007, 08:55 PM	#15
Matt Norman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	I agree Good points all round. Although as the last posts indicated why even bother talking about a camera that doesn't (for all we know) exist???? We're all in this industry and for those that aren't, there are always times when Hipe can get in the way of truth. Still suss about the $1000 GUARANTEED cashback deal that RED do? Smells of a quick way to raise money with bankable interest to me. Oh well... the greatest thing about what everyone has said is that it's being talked about. Thats what we as film-makers should do a lot more of... I reckon the best thing we can do is wait, wait, wait and wait a little more until the RED camera comes out and we start hearing from those people that are using the camera. I suppose then will be the time that we can find out if the hipe was good or bad?? Until then I'm very happy to shouting to the world that the JVC 251 is a great piece of equipment and i'm very happy I have it in my possession. Thanks again for all the words of wisdom.