Overcranked Slow-motion samples from HD200/250

Joseph H. Moore · July 30th, 2007, 05:36 PM

- Cinema Tools does the conforming. Takes no time at all.
- I would do the down-coversion at the very end in Compressor.

Nima Taheri · July 30th, 2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph H. Moore

- I would do the down-coversion at the very end in Compressor.

Two things:
- I am mixing 720 30p and HDV 60pSD on the 25p timeline and do not want to uprez the 60pSD.
- by down-converting in Compressor, I'd lose a generation. I will have to bring it back in FCP to record to tape.

If I edit the footage on a Uncompressed 8bit 4:2:2 sequence, will the BRHD50 or the HD100 have any problems recording the sequence? (which will be SDPAL 25p 16:9)

Mathew Jones · August 3rd, 2007, 01:48 PM

To quote The Princess Bride, "...I do not think he understands what this word means."

I've read every post in this thread, and re-read Tim's directions several times -- thanks Tim! -- and if I understand correctly, for this to work on a PC-based Avid, I would download HDVxDV and MPEG Steamclip, and then proceed with Tim's directions?

Is it just me, or is anyone else wondering how JVC can claim overcrank as a feature on their 250 when there's this much extra process involved with actually achieving the desired result? I think there should be a couple asterisks along with Tim's instructions printed with all of the cam's marketing literature.

Venting in Venice,
Mathew

Tim Dashwood · August 3rd, 2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathew Jones

I've read every post in this thread, and re-read Tim's directions several times -- thanks Tim! -- and if I understand correctly, for this to work on a PC-based Avid, I would download HDVxDV and MPEG Steamclip, and then proceed with Tim's directions?

These directions are pretty exclusive to Mac and the way to handle 60P material for overcrank in Final Cut Pro.
I don't have a similar workflow for PC based avid, or any other PC based NLE. The key is to capture all 60 frames per second and then slow the frame rate down to your base rate (23.98, 25 or 29.97) There are many different ways to do this, I only just presented one that doesn't require any rendering within Final Cut Pro on Mac.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathew Jones

Is it just me, or is anyone else wondering how JVC can claim overcrank as a feature on their 250 when there's this much extra process involved with actually achieving the desired result? I think there should be a couple asterisks along with Tim's instructions printed with all of the cam's marketing literature.

Has JVC ever actually used overcrank 60fps as a selling feature in their literature? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.
The notion of 60P's use as overcrank slow-motion in the original HD100 and eventually the HD200/250 was originated here, in these discussion groups, not in JVC marketing literature.
It's just a matter of thinking outside the box and finding new uses for features built into the camera, and the software you have at hand.

Mathew Jones · August 3rd, 2007, 03:41 PM

Hi Tim,
You're probably correct about the literature. I went to an expo here in LA last year and asked the rep at the JVC booth some questions (specifically regarding overcrank) in regards to the 100/110 vs. the 250, and without going into details they told me that the 250 would shoot in 60p overcrank.

They gave me no caveats as to what's involved in actually making that happen. They just made it sound like an easy-to-utilize function of the camera, and even though I asked about how it would work, they didn't have solid answers for me (I wasn't speaking to a tech).

So I guess my frustration is actually a note to JVC to help future customers avoid what I've experienced. Regardless of how the feature came into existence/use, JVC should be savvy enough to realize that if they're promoting that feature (in print, web or otherwise) they should do so with a greater sense of full disclosure.

For instance in my case, I still would've purchased the 250 as opposed to the HVX, but I would've done it with a better understanding and ultimately saved myself many hours of experimentation and research in trying to figure out how to make overcrank work (before returning to my tried and true 16mm in order to get a project done on time).

And I'm not down on the 250, other than overcrank, I'm quite happy with how it's performed for me and the images I've captured with it.

Cheers,
Mathew

Sean Adair · August 6th, 2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathew Jones

... I would've done it with a better understanding and ultimately saved myself many hours of experimentation and research in trying to figure out how to make overcrank work (before returning to my tried and true 16mm in order to get a project done on time).
Mathew

Did your 16mm camera come with step by step instructions for producing overcranked footage? I realize video post production has some more complexities, but I think it's totally appropriate to describe the 200 series as capable of overcranking - and with freeware no less!

It isn't as simple to preview and implement as the HVX, but should get easier as editing software updates to use this codec natively.

Mathew Jones · August 8th, 2007, 07:04 PM

Ok, guilty as charged, I was definitely being hyperbolic -- JVC can of course claim overcrank as a feature because technically it is on the camera.

I guess I'm also guilty of not expressing myself very well because the point I'm trying to get across is not an attack on JVC, I'm expressing frustration. And in so doing, I'm trying to point out to JVC an opportunity for them to remedy a situation and prevent future customers from also becoming frustrated.

But maybe I'm the only one who was confounded by the complexity of achieving the glorious OVERCRANKAGE...I'm hoping that was more hyperbole.

-Mathew

David Scattergood · October 10th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Got this to work very well in preperation for a new project - cheers for the work flow Tim, it's a breeze.

However...couple of questions (and they may to most seem blindingly obvious!):

1: I want to import the SD50p slow motion clips into a HDV 50p timeline: is it just a case of importing the QT files or can I stop short and import the mt2 files?

2: In MPEG Streamclip I uprezzed the 720x576 to 1280x720 (unscaled) yet in the QT inspector the clip states 720x576 ? (It also vertically stretches the image losing the 16:9 ratio...had I missed an anmorphic flag in MPEG streamclip or DVHS...conforming aperture doesn't appear to fix this unfortunately).

Really pleased this has turned out ok (and a relatively quick workflow).
I shot the footage at 1/50th shuttter speed so will try 1/100th for the next test.

Robert Bale · October 19th, 2007, 01:45 AM

Hi tim,

I have just picked up my new 201e, i have had a go at this slow mo settings, i can get it to work ok, but the audio goes into slowmo to, i am a bit liike brian except i want to film in 50p and slow some parts down,you say in step 8 about the audio but it is not working any idea where i am going wrong.

rob.

August 3rd, 2007, 01:48 PM	#48
Mathew Jones New Boot Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13	work FLOW? To quote The Princess Bride, "...I do not think he understands what this word means." I've read every post in this thread, and re-read Tim's directions several times -- thanks Tim! -- and if I understand correctly, for this to work on a PC-based Avid, I would download HDVxDV and MPEG Steamclip, and then proceed with Tim's directions? Is it just me, or is anyone else wondering how JVC can claim overcrank as a feature on their 250 when there's this much extra process involved with actually achieving the desired result? I think there should be a couple asterisks along with Tim's instructions printed with all of the cam's marketing literature. Venting in Venice, Mathew

August 3rd, 2007, 03:41 PM	#50
Mathew Jones New Boot Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13	overcrank Hi Tim, You're probably correct about the literature. I went to an expo here in LA last year and asked the rep at the JVC booth some questions (specifically regarding overcrank) in regards to the 100/110 vs. the 250, and without going into details they told me that the 250 would shoot in 60p overcrank. They gave me no caveats as to what's involved in actually making that happen. They just made it sound like an easy-to-utilize function of the camera, and even though I asked about how it would work, they didn't have solid answers for me (I wasn't speaking to a tech). So I guess my frustration is actually a note to JVC to help future customers avoid what I've experienced. Regardless of how the feature came into existence/use, JVC should be savvy enough to realize that if they're promoting that feature (in print, web or otherwise) they should do so with a greater sense of full disclosure. For instance in my case, I still would've purchased the 250 as opposed to the HVX, but I would've done it with a better understanding and ultimately saved myself many hours of experimentation and research in trying to figure out how to make overcrank work (before returning to my tried and true 16mm in order to get a project done on time). And I'm not down on the 250, other than overcrank, I'm quite happy with how it's performed for me and the images I've captured with it. Cheers, Mathew

August 8th, 2007, 07:04 PM	#52
Mathew Jones New Boot Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13	Hyperbole Ok, guilty as charged, I was definitely being hyperbolic -- JVC can of course claim overcrank as a feature because technically it is on the camera. I guess I'm also guilty of not expressing myself very well because the point I'm trying to get across is not an attack on JVC, I'm expressing frustration. And in so doing, I'm trying to point out to JVC an opportunity for them to remedy a situation and prevent future customers from also becoming frustrated. But maybe I'm the only one who was confounded by the complexity of achieving the glorious OVERCRANKAGE...I'm hoping that was more hyperbole. -Mathew

October 19th, 2007, 01:45 AM	#54
Robert Bale Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: australia Posts: 407	re 50p instead of 60p Hi tim, I have just picked up my new 201e, i have had a go at this slow mo settings, i can get it to work ok, but the audio goes into slowmo to, i am a bit liike brian except i want to film in 50p and slow some parts down,you say in step 8 about the audio but it is not working any idea where i am going wrong. rob. __________________ Rob. www.rpbproductions.com robert@rpbproductions.com HD101/G5 Mac/4gig Ram/1TB HDD/30" Cinema Display/FCP.

July 30th, 2007, 05:36 PM	#46
Joseph H. Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 362	- Cinema Tools does the conforming. Takes no time at all. - I would do the down-coversion at the very end in Compressor.

October 10th, 2007, 01:28 PM	#53
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Got this to work very well in preperation for a new project - cheers for the work flow Tim, it's a breeze. However...couple of questions (and they may to most seem blindingly obvious!): 1: I want to import the SD50p slow motion clips into a HDV 50p timeline: is it just a case of importing the QT files or can I stop short and import the mt2 files? 2: In MPEG Streamclip I uprezzed the 720x576 to 1280x720 (unscaled) yet in the QT inspector the clip states 720x576 ? (It also vertically stretches the image losing the 16:9 ratio...had I missed an anmorphic flag in MPEG streamclip or DVHS...conforming aperture doesn't appear to fix this unfortunately). Really pleased this has turned out ok (and a relatively quick workflow). I shot the footage at 1/50th shuttter speed so will try 1/100th for the next test.