HD100s best friends - Tim, Paulo & Stephen

George David · October 5th, 2006, 09:12 AM

Ha ha - the pans!!! 2 words - Sony Vegas :-) The 'Event Pan/Crop' is a secret weapon. You can make fake dolly shots in post with this tool.

David Scattergood · October 5th, 2006, 10:25 AM

OK - so these are usually not/never genuine pans then? Merely cropped footage in a 'pan and scan' style in a 16:9 frame? Well I never!
Will FCP allow me to cheat...I mean carry out these 'pans'?

I saw the Dolly shots on the anit-war video posted by Miltos Pilalitos. Looked great though.

George David · October 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM

Oh yes, FCP can do that by using keyframing. So I guess it's not really Vegas' secret weapon but keyframing is just part of an editor's arsenal. But using dolly's, jibs or a great tripod is even better.

Adam Letch · October 5th, 2006, 11:08 PM

Hi George,

great idea, really appreciate it, is it me or does TC2 and Panamatch look quite similar?

Also, it seems you lean towards TC2 and not TC3, as all your avi comparo demonstrates, is there a reason for this?

Cheers

Adam

George David · October 6th, 2006, 12:43 AM

Adam - you are right. Panamatch and TC look very similar when encoded to wmv. They look a little different in the NLE though.

Indoors, you can easily tell the difference between panamatch (that DVX saturated look) and TC.

I use TC2 because it's what I've been using for several months and I really like it. I also had TC3 but with my untrained eye I just couldn't tell the difference. So I made room for Tim's film noir instead in the SD card.

Again, I just don't know how Paolo could improve on perfection - ha ha.

Stephen L. Noe · October 6th, 2006, 07:19 AM

If you take a look at the settings: Panamatch and TC3 are very similar. Panamatch is a richer look (in R) and you can really tell, as George said, on your timeline and on uncompressed frames. I've come up with some new scene files but they are not ready for prime time.

Adam Letch · October 6th, 2006, 06:49 PM

as everybody knows, the standard colour matrix is not too desireable, and many have no idea how to make it work. Keep up the good work everyone, Paolo, Stephen, Tim, Nate, Jonathon, Chris and all who make this community so valuable.

Paolo Ciccone · October 6th, 2006, 10:54 PM

Thank you George, very flattering and totally unexpected. I can only say that I'm very happy that my small contribution has helped so many videographers. The difference between TC2 and TC3 is minimal and I actually have another one that I labelled TC 3.5 that is just a minor tweak for the blacks. As I often say, TrueColor was born out of necessity to get a better, true to life color matrix, and one that i could trust to be as faithful to the real image as the HD100 can get. In this light TrueColor doesn't try to be a look but instead a way for you to achieve your look.

My way of working, with HDV at least, is to leave the look interpretation in post and use all the "camera bits" to capture a detailed image. This might be good or not, it just makes sense to me. Where I prefer to get a "in camera" look is with the use of filters. There are ways of the light to interract with filters that are impossible of incredibly time-consuming to do in post. And soemtimes it's just more fun to see it happening in camera.

There is one thing to be said about these minor tweaks. Sometimes they are very hard to detect by the naked eye but they become visible when you look at the VectorScope. You might argue that something that is only visible with a Vscope is not really usefull but think about this. When you do color correction in your NLE/compositing program you might end up with results that less satisfactory just because you're missing some bits. We just have so little "wiggle room" with the current HDV format that all bits are useful. You might not see it right away but the difference might become evident later, when you'll be manipulating the image.

Thanks again and take care.

Martin ODonnell · October 7th, 2006, 01:01 AM

Guys I thought that was excellent. I am new to the industry and I bought a JVC HD100. Just when I was beginning to feel bogged down with all the technical jargon which detracts from the art side of things along come your splendid clips. I found them inspirational!
As a novice I feel a little bit guilty bothering you experts with beginner questions. I hope to be able to contribute as soon as possible.
However, what are these titles referring to? Are they functions in the camera....TC2 etc.?
Also, Could somebody explain, simply if possible, why it is that 50p is so good for slow mo? I own a PD1 as well and as yet have been unable to edit with Hi-res on my mac.
Grateful for anybody's time.
You guys really know your shit!

Martin

Jamon Lewis · October 7th, 2006, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin ODonnell

Guys I thought that was excellent. I am new to the industry and I bought a JVC HD100. Just when I was beginning to feel bogged down with all the technical jargon which detracts from the art side of things along come your splendid clips. I found them inspirational!
As a novice I feel a little bit guilty bothering you experts with beginner questions. I hope to be able to contribute as soon as possible.
However, what are these titles referring to? Are they functions in the camera....TC2 etc.?
Also, Could somebody explain, simply if possible, why it is that 50p is so good for slow mo? I own a PD1 as well and as yet have been unable to edit with Hi-res on my mac.
Grateful for anybody's time.
You guys really know your shit!

Martin

Martin i feel your pain! I got my hd100 bout 6 months ago and had the same question.
As far as the 50p i'll let someone else answer that but as far as the scene file (TC1,TC2 ect..) Yeah they are camera functions u will have to change. What u do is download the file or goto Paolo or Tim's site, get the scene files. Then hold down the Menu/Status button on the left side of the cam until menu comes up then select CAMERA PROCESS, keep going page by page (ithink there are only 2) using the "next page" and change the setting in ur cam to the settings listed on the scene file..... BTW to get to change the Red,Blue & Green gain and rotation you'll have to go to the ADVANCED PROCESS option on the second menu page.Here is some help finding the scene files

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...ht=Scene+files

hope this helped! I'm sure not an expert just feel your pain!

BTW Paolo thanks again! I remember be'n here and u help me out!!!!

Martin ODonnell · October 7th, 2006, 07:15 AM

Thanks for your empathy Jamon and your time in replying.
It's also encouraging to know that other people have been where I am and have battled through.
It's just a fact that to get to enjoy the arty stuff that Tim and friends are creating you just have to get your head around the technical stuff.
Tell you what Jamon I thank the stars for this forum!

Cheers again I'll download and check the settings out.

Martin

Paolo Ciccone · October 7th, 2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin ODonnell

Are they functions in the camera....TC2 etc.?

That refers to my scene configuration called "TrueColor" and the number is the version level. You can find a complete explanation, with the descriptionm of the process used to find that configuration at my site: http://www.paolociccone.com

Quote:

Also, Could somebody explain, simply if possible, why it is that 50p is so good for slow mo?

Because you're basically overcranking, you're shooting at twice the speed of playback, assuming that you are shooting at 24fps. As fast moving objects are framed by the camera, if you shoot twice the number of frames then you'll have convincing slomo. If you shoot at 24fps then the object will be a fast moving blur that will be finished with the motion in 1/2 the number of frames. You can reduce the blur by using faster shutter speed but there is very little that can be done to recreate missing motion frames. Programs like AfterEffect 7 (TimeWarp) or Shake can do an excellent job at simulating slomo but nothing can replace actual frames. When you have overcranked footage you can then use a compositing program, NLEs are usually not good enough, to exagerate the slomo effect and it will look good.

Daniel Patton · October 7th, 2006, 09:35 AM

Paolo,

I'm in the similar mind set as you, I prefer to do all my work in post in regard to color/looks, I already shoot most everything TC3 now anyway. Do you have a TC, either tweaked or standard, that you feel is a good fit for use in pulling a more perfected key? Anything you would do different to one of your current TC settings?

Thanks in advance.

Maat Vansloot · October 7th, 2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone

Because you're basically overcranking, you're shooting at twice the speed of playback, assuming that you are shooting at 24fps. As fast moving objects are framed by the camera, if you shoot twice the number of frames then you'll have convincing slomo. If you shoot at 24fps then the object will be a fast moving blur that will be finished with the motion in 1/2 the number of frames. You can reduce the blur by using faster shutter speed but there is very little that can be done to recreate missing motion frames. Programs like AfterEffect 7 (TimeWarp) or Shake can do an excellent job at simulating slomo but nothing can replace actual frames. When you have overcranked footage you can then use a compositing program, NLEs are usually not good enough, to exagerate the slomo effect and it will look good.

I tried your recipe for the 50p slo-mo and it looked pretty good. But I noticed that in both the smaller image and the blown-up (via Motion in FCP) image the video looked a little low-res and blocky. It appears lossy and it doesn't seem that the slight amount of enlargement in Motion would degrade the video so much.

Is it because it has to pass through AIC? Is it just my imagination? I'm afraid it just didn't seem to hold up quality-wise to other non 50p slo-mo clips in the same timeline. Still a neat trick though, love to be able to improve the quality of it!

Maat Vansloot · October 7th, 2006, 04:53 PM

Oh-- there's another question that's been bouncing around in my head for a while concerning these nice "home-made" camera settings. The TCs by Paolo and other similar cool recipes seem great for film and narative type of projects.

But has anyone cooked up some camera settings that would work especially well for ENG, reality TV and run-and-gun type projects?

The HD100 (110, etc) seems to be designed as a great ENG camera. And, I come from an ENG, news photography background. I could fiddle up some settings myself, but I'm wondering if there are already some ENG recipes floating around here somewhere.

My guess would be you could start with the main JVC factory setting, add a tiny bit of black stretch, leave the knee at auto or maybe 90 or 95%, and then juice the color just a bit (similar to Paolo's color settings but not quite as aggressive).

October 5th, 2006, 11:08 PM	#49
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	George TC3? Hi George, great idea, really appreciate it, is it me or does TC2 and Panamatch look quite similar? Also, it seems you lean towards TC2 and not TC3, as all your avi comparo demonstrates, is there a reason for this? Cheers Adam

October 6th, 2006, 07:19 AM	#51
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	If you take a look at the settings: Panamatch and TC3 are very similar. Panamatch is a richer look (in R) and you can really tell, as George said, on your timeline and on uncompressed frames. I've come up with some new scene files but they are not ready for prime time. __________________ Advanced Avid Liquid Training found Here

October 6th, 2006, 06:49 PM	#52
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	Thanks guys as everybody knows, the standard colour matrix is not too desireable, and many have no idea how to make it work. Keep up the good work everyone, Paolo, Stephen, Tim, Nate, Jonathon, Chris and all who make this community so valuable.

October 6th, 2006, 10:54 PM	#53
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Thank you George, very flattering and totally unexpected. I can only say that I'm very happy that my small contribution has helped so many videographers. The difference between TC2 and TC3 is minimal and I actually have another one that I labelled TC 3.5 that is just a minor tweak for the blacks. As I often say, TrueColor was born out of necessity to get a better, true to life color matrix, and one that i could trust to be as faithful to the real image as the HD100 can get. In this light TrueColor doesn't try to be a look but instead a way for you to achieve your look. My way of working, with HDV at least, is to leave the look interpretation in post and use all the "camera bits" to capture a detailed image. This might be good or not, it just makes sense to me. Where I prefer to get a "in camera" look is with the use of filters. There are ways of the light to interract with filters that are impossible of incredibly time-consuming to do in post. And soemtimes it's just more fun to see it happening in camera. There is one thing to be said about these minor tweaks. Sometimes they are very hard to detect by the naked eye but they become visible when you look at the VectorScope. You might argue that something that is only visible with a Vscope is not really usefull but think about this. When you do color correction in your NLE/compositing program you might end up with results that less satisfactory just because you're missing some bits. We just have so little "wiggle room" with the current HDV format that all bits are useful. You might not see it right away but the difference might become evident later, when you'll be manipulating the image. Thanks again and take care. __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel

October 7th, 2006, 07:15 AM	#56
Martin ODonnell Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 26	cheers Thanks for your empathy Jamon and your time in replying. It's also encouraging to know that other people have been where I am and have battled through. It's just a fact that to get to enjoy the arty stuff that Tim and friends are creating you just have to get your head around the technical stuff. Tell you what Jamon I thank the stars for this forum! Cheers again I'll download and check the settings out. Martin

October 5th, 2006, 09:12 AM	#46
George David Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 150	Ha ha - the pans!!! 2 words - Sony Vegas :-) The 'Event Pan/Crop' is a secret weapon. You can make fake dolly shots in post with this tool.

October 5th, 2006, 10:25 AM	#47
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	OK - so these are usually not/never genuine pans then? Merely cropped footage in a 'pan and scan' style in a 16:9 frame? Well I never! Will FCP allow me to cheat...I mean carry out these 'pans'? I saw the Dolly shots on the anit-war video posted by Miltos Pilalitos. Looked great though.

October 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM	#48
George David Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 150	Oh yes, FCP can do that by using keyframing. So I guess it's not really Vegas' secret weapon but keyframing is just part of an editor's arsenal. But using dolly's, jibs or a great tripod is even better.

October 6th, 2006, 12:43 AM	#50
George David Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 150	Adam - you are right. Panamatch and TC look very similar when encoded to wmv. They look a little different in the NLE though. Indoors, you can easily tell the difference between panamatch (that DVX saturated look) and TC. I use TC2 because it's what I've been using for several months and I really like it. I also had TC3 but with my untrained eye I just couldn't tell the difference. So I made room for Tim's film noir instead in the SD card. Again, I just don't know how Paolo could improve on perfection - ha ha.

October 7th, 2006, 01:01 AM	#54
Martin ODonnell Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 26	Guys I thought that was excellent. I am new to the industry and I bought a JVC HD100. Just when I was beginning to feel bogged down with all the technical jargon which detracts from the art side of things along come your splendid clips. I found them inspirational! As a novice I feel a little bit guilty bothering you experts with beginner questions. I hope to be able to contribute as soon as possible. However, what are these titles referring to? Are they functions in the camera....TC2 etc.? Also, Could somebody explain, simply if possible, why it is that 50p is so good for slow mo? I own a PD1 as well and as yet have been unable to edit with Hi-res on my mac. Grateful for anybody's time. You guys really know your shit! Martin

October 7th, 2006, 09:35 AM	#58
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	Paolo, I'm in the similar mind set as you, I prefer to do all my work in post in regard to color/looks, I already shoot most everything TC3 now anyway. Do you have a TC, either tweaked or standard, that you feel is a good fit for use in pulling a more perfected key? Anything you would do different to one of your current TC settings? Thanks in advance. __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

October 7th, 2006, 04:53 PM	#60
Maat Vansloot Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Francisco, USA Posts: 52	Oh-- there's another question that's been bouncing around in my head for a while concerning these nice "home-made" camera settings. The TCs by Paolo and other similar cool recipes seem great for film and narative type of projects. But has anyone cooked up some camera settings that would work especially well for ENG, reality TV and run-and-gun type projects? The HD100 (110, etc) seems to be designed as a great ENG camera. And, I come from an ENG, news photography background. I could fiddle up some settings myself, but I'm wondering if there are already some ENG recipes floating around here somewhere. My guess would be you could start with the main JVC factory setting, add a tiny bit of black stretch, leave the knee at auto or maybe 90 or 95%, and then juice the color just a bit (similar to Paolo's color settings but not quite as aggressive).