ProHD to DVHS? at DVinfo.net

Carlos Rodriguez · September 26th, 2006, 05:14 PM

Is that possible? Getting the ProHD 24p stream onto a DVHS tape? if not through premiere than maybe through the JVC capture/print utility that came with the HD1?

Tim Dashwood · September 26th, 2006, 06:08 PM

It is an interesting idea because D-VHS also uses MPEG-2 transport streams.

In theory you should be able to simply connect a firewire cable from the HD100 to a HD enabled D-VHS deck. However, the stream bit rates may not be compatible because I think D-VHS uses a 28.2 Mbit/s bitrate and ProHd uses 19.2 Mbit/s.

If you couldn't do direct data transfers, then using a m2t capture and output utility might work.

I don't have access to one of these machines so I can only speculate.

Maybe Ken Freed would be so kind to give us an engineer's point of view?

Carlos Rodriguez · September 27th, 2006, 11:22 AM

I'll have to give it a try... I'm just trying to find a work around Premiere Pro 2.0 not enabling HDV24p streams to be printed to tape... I've got the JVC HMDH30000 deck, and I have access to an HD100. I'll have to give it a shot.

Jeff Kellam · September 27th, 2006, 02:38 PM

I have experimented extensively with my JVC HMDH40000 DVHS the last few weeks recording H1 and HD100 clips to it to evaluate the cameras on my HD monitor.

I usually use the JVC utility that came with my GR HD1 camera to export or preview. The print to tape from Vegas also provides a stream.

I have found the DVHS will record almost any stream fed to it. That is good and bad. For some reason, when streaming raw m2t in 1080 24P format (H1 clips), the HD monitor connected to the DVHS has excellent picture output, but when played back from the DVHS tape directly, there is a 3/2 flag or something missing and the picture is jerky like its missing the 2 frames or something.

HD100 playback is always beautiful.

Carlos Rodriguez · September 27th, 2006, 03:44 PM

saved me some work! :-)

Carlos Rodriguez · September 27th, 2006, 03:51 PM

what hdv modes were you transferring to DVHS, Jeff?

thanks.

Jeff Kellam · September 27th, 2006, 04:15 PM

Carlos:

I will have to look at the clips in Vegas to see what they are. The H1 & HD100 do provide several modes I guess.

Im kinda partial to the 30P look, having used it for so long.

Like I was saying though, anything will transfer to DVHS, it just may not play back properly on DVHS (to a monitor) without a render to NTSC.

Carlos Rodriguez · September 27th, 2006, 04:23 PM

good deal, thanks for the info and quick response.

Michael Maier · September 28th, 2006, 04:04 AM

Veyr interesting idea. I wonder if it could finally be a way to have Masters that are longer than 1 hour without going the more expensive route of HDCAM. Does DVHS record the full resolution?

Carl Hicks · September 28th, 2006, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Veyr interesting idea. I wonder if it could finally be a way to have Masters that are longer than 1 hour without going the more expensive route of HDCAM. Does DVHS record the full resolution?

Michael,

The DVHS format will record a little over 28 MBit/Sec., so yes, it's more than enough for HDV. It's a very low cost way to archive HDV projects. You can get over 3 hours on a tape. Since it digitally records the MPEG-2 transport stream, there is no quality loss from your master.

Regards, Carl

Mark Silva · September 28th, 2006, 09:53 AM

If I'm not mistaken, D-VHS is typically a 14.1 mbps constant bit rate.

wow 3 hours at 28mbps thats really good!

Carl Hicks · September 28th, 2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Silva

If I'm not mistaken, D-VHS is typically a 14.1 mbps constant bit rate.

wow 3 hours at 28mbps thats really good!

Mark,

The 14.1 mbps rate is for SD. The HD recordings are done at 28.2 mbps.

With a DF-420 tape, you can get 210 minutes of 28.2 mbps HD recording. This is a very cost-effective way to archive HDV projects, or to make back-ups of your HDV field footage. You could also live record to DVHS from your HDV camera's firewire port, thus being able to make two digital copies on tape of your shots as they happen.

See this website: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/t...&itempath=null

Keep in mind that the HD recording is ONLY done via the firewire input with a MPEG-2 Transport stream. You cannot feed analog HD into this VCR.

Regards,

Carl

Jeff Kellam · September 28th, 2006, 12:09 PM

Too bad the WVHS is out of production. It was a great product for analog HD recording.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

..... You cannot feed analog HD into this VCR.

Regards,

Carl

Earl Thurston · September 28th, 2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

You cannot feed analog HD into this VCR.

You bring up an interesting point, Carl. There are actually very, very few devices that will record HD analog component signals. Why is that?

Stephan Ahonen · September 28th, 2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Thurston

You bring up an interesting point, Carl. There are actually very, very few devices that will record HD analog component signals. Why is that?

Because analog component is how a lot of cable boxes and video players hook up to TVs, therefore the only reason you would ever want to record analog component was if you were recording programming and releasing it to millions over the internet, you nasty pirate scum.</cynicism>

September 26th, 2006, 05:14 PM	#1
Carlos Rodriguez Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Modesto, California Posts: 206	ProHD to DVHS? Is that possible? Getting the ProHD 24p stream onto a DVHS tape? if not through premiere than maybe through the JVC capture/print utility that came with the HD1?

September 26th, 2006, 06:08 PM	#2
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	It is an interesting idea because D-VHS also uses MPEG-2 transport streams. In theory you should be able to simply connect a firewire cable from the HD100 to a HD enabled D-VHS deck. However, the stream bit rates may not be compatible because I think D-VHS uses a 28.2 Mbit/s bitrate and ProHd uses 19.2 Mbit/s. If you couldn't do direct data transfers, then using a m2t capture and output utility might work. I don't have access to one of these machines so I can only speculate. Maybe Ken Freed would be so kind to give us an engineer's point of view? __________________ Tim Dashwood

September 27th, 2006, 11:22 AM	#3
Carlos Rodriguez Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Modesto, California Posts: 206	Hmmm.... I'll have to give it a try... I'm just trying to find a work around Premiere Pro 2.0 not enabling HDV24p streams to be printed to tape... I've got the JVC HMDH30000 deck, and I have access to an HD100. I'll have to give it a shot.

September 27th, 2006, 02:38 PM	#4
Jeff Kellam Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 656	I have experimented extensively with my JVC HMDH40000 DVHS the last few weeks recording H1 and HD100 clips to it to evaluate the cameras on my HD monitor. I usually use the JVC utility that came with my GR HD1 camera to export or preview. The print to tape from Vegas also provides a stream. I have found the DVHS will record almost any stream fed to it. That is good and bad. For some reason, when streaming raw m2t in 1080 24P format (H1 clips), the HD monitor connected to the DVHS has excellent picture output, but when played back from the DVHS tape directly, there is a 3/2 flag or something missing and the picture is jerky like its missing the 2 frames or something. HD100 playback is always beautiful. __________________ Panasonic HMC150/Canon A1/JVC HD1/Sony Vegas 8.0c

September 27th, 2006, 03:44 PM	#5
Carlos Rodriguez Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Modesto, California Posts: 206	there it is.... saved me some work! :-)

September 27th, 2006, 03:51 PM	#6
Carlos Rodriguez Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Modesto, California Posts: 206	just to be sure though... what hdv modes were you transferring to DVHS, Jeff? thanks.

September 27th, 2006, 04:15 PM	#7
Jeff Kellam Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 656	Carlos: I will have to look at the clips in Vegas to see what they are. The H1 & HD100 do provide several modes I guess. Im kinda partial to the 30P look, having used it for so long. Like I was saying though, anything will transfer to DVHS, it just may not play back properly on DVHS (to a monitor) without a render to NTSC. __________________ Panasonic HMC150/Canon A1/JVC HD1/Sony Vegas 8.0c

September 27th, 2006, 04:23 PM	#8
Carlos Rodriguez Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Modesto, California Posts: 206	good deal, thanks for the info and quick response.

September 28th, 2006, 04:04 AM	#9
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Veyr interesting idea. I wonder if it could finally be a way to have Masters that are longer than 1 hour without going the more expensive route of HDCAM. Does DVHS record the full resolution?

September 28th, 2006, 09:53 AM	#11
Mark Silva Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 431	If I'm not mistaken, D-VHS is typically a 14.1 mbps constant bit rate. wow 3 hours at 28mbps thats really good!