DR-HD100 Final Cut 720/30P Update Released/QT HDV now supported by FOCUS HD100

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Or a very expensive codec chip hardwired onto the Focus' breadboard. I wonder what the chances are of that?

Not high.

OT: working in Liquid's audio editor I'm find it consistently fails when playing. After 20 to 40 seconds the volume indicators freeze. From this point on the controls are almost completely locked-up. After another 10 to 20 seconds, the video freezes but audio continues.

If one waits another 30 to 40 seconds the video may come back. Then the volume indicators may unfreeze. Things are then fine for awhile and the process repeats.

I've put a STOP button on the Toolbar. When all is locked-up if I click it 30 to 50 times -- playback finally stops.

Although it's made worse by adding a second layer of video and made better by turning off all video -- there is no way to avoid this happening on EVERY playback if it goes on for more than a minute.

Once there was a crash -- and nothing was preserved.

Have you ever had this happen? It's driving me nuts.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Not high.

OT: working in Liquid's audio editor I'm find it consistently fails when playing. After 20 to 40 seconds the volume indicators freeze. From this point on the controls are almost completely locked-up. After another 10 to 20 seconds, the video freezes but audio continues.

If one waits another 30 to 40 seconds the video may come back. Then the volume indicators may unfreeze. Things are then fine for awhile and the process repeats.

I've put a STOP button on the Toolbar. When all is locked-up if I click it 30 to 50 times -- playback finally stops.

Although it's made worse by adding a second layer of video and made better by turning off all video -- there is no way to avoid this happening on EVERY playback if it goes on for more than a minute.

Once there was a crash -- and nothing was preserved.

Have you ever had this happen? It's driving me nuts.

OT: The problem is your timeline is getting complicated and your render engine is running all the time. Solution. Delete all render files that are not used by project and then select Clean up project (those are commands in Liquid). Uncheck the box in your render engine to "include yellow slices". Defrag your media drive in windows.

The ultimate problems is, you need to do some housekeeping and your timeline is stalling becase of it.

S.Noe

[Eric Susch]

I’m a Final Cut user who bought the DR-HD100 specifically because I heard that it would be supporting QuickTime. I’m considering purchasing this upgrade CD but I have several questions.

Is this an official firmware update? I see no mention of it on the Focus Enhancements website. (The JVC site seems to be down today.)

If you just purchased the DR-HD100 shouldn’t this firmware update be a free download?

Who is Plimus, the company selling the CD?

What is on the CD and what does it do to your DR-HD100? I can’t find a description page on the Plimus site. When you search for “DR-HD100” or “QuickTime” there is nothing about this upgrade CD.

If this isn’t an official update but a 3rd party add-on, will it prevent you from using the official upgrade from Focus Enhancements when they or JVC release it? Will it void your warranty?

Any help is appreciated...

[Steve Mullen]

Yes, its offical, but the total lack of information is unacceptable -- as is the $39 charge. Focus markets their products as offering DTE, but th,en in the fine print says its only for DV. Who, buying an HD100 camcorder is likely to spend $1500 to $2000 to record DV?

But worse, they make no comment about whether the firmware is, or will be, installed in shipping units.

P... I assume is a fullfilment company.

Moreover, if as I expect, Apple's forthcoming "full" support for HDV is only via an intermediate codec like AIC (as is the case with FCE V3), DTE might remain available ONLY for 720/30p. And, who in 2007 will be shooting 30p?

Were Apple to only support FireWire CAPTURE of HDV -- with realtime conversion to AIC -- then the DR-HD100 would have to be used only in AV/C mode.

Which raises the question, does FCE 3 allow you to IMPORT an MT2 file with an automatic conversion to AIC?

Because, if one is to use a DR-HD100 as a FireWire hard-disk, the IMPORT M2T function must be implemented by Apple. Otherwise, we remain using Streamclip!

[Eric Susch]

I've since heard through official channels that this is in fact legit and not a spoof web order form from someone trying to get money or credit card numbers. I don't know about other people but every few months or so I get an e-mail that looks like it's from my bank, e-bay, PayPal, etc. that directs you to such a page. I always try to confirm the legitimacy of an order form before typing in my credit card.

Anyway, I'm going to order my CD today so I'll let everyone know how the upgrade goes.

I’d also like to thank Steve Benner for posting a link here because otherwise I NEVER would have found the order form for this critical update.

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Yes, its official, but the total lack of information is unacceptable -- as is the $39 charge. Focus markets their products as offering DTE, but th,en in the fine print says its only for DV. Who, buying an HD100 camcorder is likely to spend $1500 to $2000 to record DV?

I agree, It's unacceptable. I think we should complain to JVC. The DR-HD100 is after all a JVC product and part of their ProHD line. It says ProHD right on it. (Not ProDV...) We shouldn't have to pay for a firmware upgrade to another party (the OEM) to make the unit work properly with the camera. It's not about the $40. Heck, charge $40 more for the drive, I don't care. It's the principle. It feels like someone else is coming in and shaking me down.

Even more important to me, why the heck do I have to buy a damn CD, wait a few days for some 3rd party company to burn it and then wait again for it to show up in the MAIL! That's ridiculous. I'm a professional. I have shoots coming up. I don't have time for that kind of nonsense. Put it up on a damn web page so that customers can download it and install it immediately.

Anyway, from what I've read here and experienced thus far JVC seems like a good company. I'm sure they will understand our concerns and adjust accordingly.

[Steve Benner]

Apple is having a big release party on the 13th...Final Cut Pro 6 (fingers crossed).

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Eric Susch

I agree, It's unacceptable. I think we should complain to JVC. The DR-HD100 is after all a JVC product and part of their ProHD line. It says ProHD right on it. (Not ProDV...) We shouldn't have to pay for a firmware upgrade to another party (the OEM) to make the unit work properly with the camera. It's not about the $40. Heck, charge $40 more for the drive, I don't care. It's the principle. It feels like someone else is coming in and shaking me down.

On one hand I agree with you, on the other hand I don't.

The DR-HD100 has captured m2t from the beginning and has worked correctly wtih native workflow. Focus Enhancements went out of their way to make it work with Final Cut which wasn't in the cards from the beginning. The guys at Apple have pigeon holed (somewhat) FCP because QT files must be provided. The update is FCP specific and affects no other NLE that can handle 30p m2t (Media Composer, Velocity HD and Liquid etc).

So, it stinks that there is a cost involved to get QT files but the DR-HD100 has worked as advertised from the beginning (m2t). Maybe FCP 6 will be a complete overhaul of file type handling?

S.Noe

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

The DR-HD100 has captured m2t from the beginning and has worked correctly wtih native workflow.

Maybe FCP 6 will be a complete overhaul of file type handling?

S.Noe

The problem isn't the recording of m2t files -- it's what can you do with them.

Anyone reading the marketig HEADLINES would read that this was a device for ProHD and that it had a great feature called DTE. The virtues of DTE are then extolled. Now in fine print you see that DTE is only for DV. That's EZ to miss.

So now you have FCP or FCE plus m2t files. Exactly how is one supposed to be able to use these m2t files?

And while foks assume FCP 6 -- which is not comimg in Sept. -- will work with m2t files -- that's not a good assumption. If Apple moves to only AIC, then you may only be able to CAPTURE m2t!

I just tried importing a m2t file in FCE. It will not do so. One has to connect a camera and Capture.

Which means your hard disk full of m2t files is nearly worthless -- unless you hook it up via AV/C mode and pretend it's a camera.

If one doesn't get DTE, then the cheaper CitiDisk seems as good.

[Eric Susch]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

On one hand I agree with you, on the other hand I don't.

The DR-HD100 has captured m2t from the beginning and has worked correctly with native workflow. Focus Enhancements went out of their way to make it work with Final Cut which wasn't in the cards from the beginning.

I don’t have any inside information but I find it hard to believe that JVC and Focus initially designed the unit to be incompatible with FCP. It’s one of the two top professional editors and a substantial percentage of potential customers. It seems more likely that QuickTime support was always intended but it took them a long time to make it work. This happens sometimes and it is understandable.

There is a press release on the Focus site from January that says they will support QuickTime in April and there have been posts about it on this forum for months. I purchased the unit just recently with this understanding.

http://www.focusinfo.com/company/article.asp?id=105898

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

So, it stinks that there is a cost involved to get QT files but the DR-HD100 has worked as advertised from the beginning (m2t).

I must say, I have to agree with Steve Mullen on this one. I pulled out the JVC product brochure for the DR-HD100 that I had printed out and it’s full of wording like, “Now everyone can make capturing a thing of the past with DR-HD100.” and “”No capturing, no file transfer, no file conversion. Just shoot and edit!” without any caveats anywhere. Of course, I wasn’t tricked into buying the unit by any means. I read the specs. I just agree with Steve that the marketing skews the issue.

And please, as I said, the main problem for me is not the $40. It’s the inconvenience of having to order the update on CD and the obscure order form from an unknown third party with no description of what you are purchasing, and no official mention (let alone links) on the Focus or JVC site.

This upgrade wasn’t handled as well as it could have been. By airing my concerns, I’m hoping the next one will be smoother.

UPDATE: I checked the Focus site again just before I posted this and it looks like they’ve put a link to the update order form under the Special Announcements banner on the very top page. If someone from Focus is reading this thread, might I also suggest that this link be put on the support – software downloads page because that’s where most people will go looking for this update.

[Steve Benner]

Currently the easiest way into FCP is using the MPEG STREAMCLIP method. Not hard at all, just set it and forget it.

On the other hand, I prefer Avid, and they have major issues. None of this Liquid nonsese (not bashing it mind you), but their most important editor (Media Composer) cannot edit HDV 24P. It has become even worse than the Apple situation. The company exists because of Editing.

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Steve Benner

Currently the easiest way into FCP is using the MPEG STREAMCLIP method. Not hard at all, just set it and forget it.

On the other hand, I prefer Avid, and they have major issues. None of this Liquid nonsese (not bashing it mind you), but their most important editor (Media Composer) cannot edit HDV 24P. It has become even worse than the Apple situation. The company exists because of Editing.

Agreed! Saying they chose a different path to support 24 and 25P HDV with Liquid is ridiculous. Are people who already own MC and XPressPro supposed to buy Liquid (which bTW does not offer any easy work path to its professional edit solutions at this stage)? That would seem to defeat the purpose of owning "the best editor on the planet" -

I think Avid will support HDV in MCA and Xpress Pro, hopefully on the next version.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by John Mitchell

Agreed! Saying they chose a different path to support 24 and 25P HDV with Liquid is ridiculous..

The fact remains that Liquid has supported the format since the HD1 and then subsequently the ProHD series. The FAST team wrote the code specifically for HDV1 LongGOP to place the format in Liquid 6. Avid is not stupid and we'll have to wait for the next generation of Xpress to see if the Liquid timeline was integrated. I seriously doubt Avid will attempt to re-invent the wheel when they have first class mpeg2 programmers already in Munich (FAST team).