Matte boxes at DVinfo.net

Trevor Allin · July 28th, 2006, 10:43 AM

Hi

Can anyone recommend good but not too expensive matt boxes for the HD100?

Thanks

Trevor

Scott Cantrell · July 28th, 2006, 12:06 PM

Trevor,

Cavision has systems specked out specifically for the GYHD100
visist http://www.cavision.com/pictures/JVC.../JVCHD100U.htm

If you are interested in their products, contact TapeWorks Texas Inc for additonal information.

Scott Cantrell
TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser
866-827-3489
scott@tapeworkstexas.com

Trevor Allin · July 29th, 2006, 01:25 AM

Thanks Scott

I am in the UK, so I will see if this is available this side of the pond.

Kind regards

Trevor

Greg Corke · July 30th, 2006, 02:47 AM

hi Trevor

I also have the cavision setup. I think Optex were the only uk rep for Cavision but they went under round Christmas time. I imported mine myself and didn't find the cost too prohibitive.

Greg C

Jack Walker · July 30th, 2006, 12:16 PM

Are there reviews available on CAVISION equipment somewhere?

They sell a .6x w/a adapter for a fraction of other company's ada[ters. Since the prices are hard to come by for CAVISION, I'm not sure how the prices for other items specifically compare to their counterparts from other companies. I am always comfused when companies and dealers hold back their prices and require a direct contact to get a price. I understand minimum advertised prices, and a link or an email takes care of this, but whenever items require a phone call and there are no prices otherwise available, I'm suspicious as to why. (There is an audio supply company that requires phone a phone call, and they are okay... but the result for me has been that the only items I order from them are the items I no in advance will be a lower price -- a certain brand of microphone -- and all other items I buy elsewhere.)

Are the matte boxes, follow focus systems, filters comparable in quality to other companies that charge a lot more?

On the face of it I've always wondered why Matte Boxes, rails, follow focus systems are so expensive in the first place. I can only guess that because so few are sold about 80% if the cost is in holding stock, marketing, advertising, etc.

Daniel Patton · July 30th, 2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

On the face of it I've always wondered why Matte Boxes, rails, follow focus systems are so expensive in the first place. I can only guess that because so few are sold about 80% if the cost is in holding stock, marketing, advertising, etc.

Considering what I spent on our matte box for our HD100 (the following is just my opinion) the bloated prices are a carry over from the film industries history of bloated prices for specialty items. Seriously, the raw materials are hardly even a factor when broken down to components.

You would think that with the volume of HD100, HVX, XL-H1 cameras sold that someone could produce an injection molded quality matte box for around $300 and still turn a good profit. I'm not even talking glass here, just a box. If a quality HD camera can be produced and sold for around $5k why can't someone produce affordable add-ons? Sorry, but I have been needing to rant about this for a while now. Thanks, I feel better.

Tim Dashwood · July 30th, 2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Patton

Seriously, the raw materials are hardly even a factor when broken down to components.

Yeah. But keep in mind the precision engineering that goes into a professional matte box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

Are there reviews available on CAVISION equipment somewhere?

Not that I know of.
I can tell you my opinion. I have the Cavision bellows matte box with rods and handgrips. I think the matte box is well built and well designed for the price. However, I hate the French flag. It doesn't have a large range of positions the way the Chroziel does. I usually remove it and create a topper out of black wrap when needed. (see photo)

Drew Curran · July 31st, 2006, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Yeah. But keep in mind the precision engineering that goes into a professional matte box.

Even with this in consideration, they are still way over-priced.

I have come to realise that this game is a money pit.

Andrew

Scott Harper · July 31st, 2006, 03:36 AM

Are the matte boxes, follow focus systems, filters comparable in quality to other companies that charge a lot more?

On the face of it I've always wondered why Matte Boxes, rails, follow focus systems are so expensive in the first place. I can only guess that because so few are sold about 80% if the cost is in holding stock, marketing, advertising, etc.[/QUOTE]

I own the Cavision matte box and also picked up a set of filters, including their Polarizer, which I promptly returned for reasons I'll explain. First of all you get what you pay for in this business, just like any other. The Cavision Matte Box is tolerable- but just. They are cheap and plastic feeling not to mention the french and side flags just don't line up, so you get light bleeding in from all directions. Kind of misses the point of having one, right? The Chroziel Matte Box, for example, is far more money but you're comparing apples and... well, a vegetable. If you get a Cavision be sure to get the metal filter holders for the extra $40 buck each because the plastic ones break very easily. With regards to their filters, when I picked mine up three of them didn't even fit into the holders properly. They were either so lose that lightly shaking it would cause it to just simply fall out, and another was so tight I had to force it in. Snug- yes, but try getting it out without it popping across the room and breaking on the floor. The polarizer was just plain worthless! It was somewhat acceptable on a wide shot but I couldn't pull a focus, at all, when zoomed in closer on something. Long story short, I paid the same price for 5 Cavision filters that I ended up paying for each Tiffen one I eventually bought. Expensive, yes. But what good were the others if they didn't fit or you couldn't get a focus.

As far as why these things are so expensive I can only say that, when compared to "the real movie gack" it's relatively cheap(trust me)and they don't sell millions of these items like they do car stereos, so, like your 80% rule- it applies here. I didn't bother with the Cavision Follow Focus because, in my opinion, it was less then quality. I instead picked up a Cinetech system that was more than twice the price but much more than twice the craftsmanship. These types of items are precision instruments that take time and money to develop, so for that reason I can justify the cost.

Fabrizio Sciarra · August 1st, 2006, 03:38 AM

well, owning a chrosziel mattebox for my hd 100 and a Vocas for my z1, and had before a Cavision for an xl 1 in my opinion there is no comparison between the first two matteboxes with the cavision, which is just a piece of plastic, a suggestion, save a bit more money and go for a piece of art like the chrosziel, if you work with it, it's a wellworth money spend.Saving money buying something that in a while will be useless it's frustrating.
best luck

Gary Williams · August 2nd, 2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Curran

Even with this in consideration, they are still way over-priced.

I have come to realise that this game is a money pit.

Andrew

I agree they are overpriced, I only use mine once in a while.

Steve Oakley · August 4th, 2006, 12:43 AM

you know I very carefully checked out the various setups this NAB, and the cavision stuff was cr@p. sloppy,low precision, junk. not just my opinion but that of several other people I spoke with that I'd call well qualified on the subject. I've used the chroziel on F900's and D600's, and it just works, no excuses.

is the chroziel and petroff a bit over priced ? yes, but it does work, yes, and its far better made. another thought, it'll last you your next couple of cameras. Just like getting a real wireless audio setup setup. I spent $2k for a lectrosonics setup, I've used it on who knows how many video cameras, and quite a few film shoots in several countries over the last 10 years. when you look at it like that, it was a great deal. Like you tell your clients, you get what you pay for... I wish there was a high quality matte box / rods / follow focus that would NOT set you back $3k..... but there really isn't much choice.

Steve Oakley

Stephan Ahonen · August 4th, 2006, 02:16 AM

Even if the matte box is letting a bit of light in around the edges, as long as those edges don't happen to line up with a major light source what's the problem?

As for a follow focus... What's the point unless you have a focus puller? If you're not using a 35mm adaptor your depth of field is so huge you don't need any extra sensitivity a follow focus will give you. If you have a 35mm adaptor and 35mm primes you can probably afford a follow focus.

Honestly, sometimes I think everyone tries to be a bit too "filmlike" here. There are things I've never seen in years of professional ENG shooting being leapt upon because "that's how film does it."

David Ziegelheim · August 4th, 2006, 09:09 AM

When I ordered my Cavision matte box I also ordered 3 of their filters. I don't think I actually ever shot anything for real with them. The glass just wasn't ok, and I am a best an amateur. All my filters are Tiffen...although I am intrigued by some others.

However, the 3x3 matte box itself wasn't that bad, other than the too thin filter holders. Are their rods really junk?

Paolo Ciccone · August 4th, 2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

you know I very carefully checked out the various setups this NAB, and the cavision stuff was cr@p. sloppy,low precision, junk. not just my opinion but that of several other people I spoke with that I'd call well qualified on the subject. I've used the chroziel on F900's and D600's, and it just works, no excuses.

I completely agree with Steve. Buy a cheap matte box and you'll throw away those few hundreds of dollars. $2000 for a Chrosziel and a couple of filters might seem like a lo of money but a matte box is the one tools that can improve the look of your pictures dramatically. What we do is based on controlling the light, a good matte box allows you to do exactly that, control flare, light end use filters.
We can argue about overpriced gear until we get old but the fact is, there are no cheap alternatives. If it's not Chrosziel it's Petroff. They both sell for $1700-$1900 for an HD100. Tomorrow you buy another camera, you change the adapter ring and off you go. Spend $1900 today, take better pictures for the rest of your life.

July 28th, 2006, 10:43 AM	#1
Trevor Allin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 152	Matte boxes Hi Can anyone recommend good but not too expensive matt boxes for the HD100? Thanks Trevor

July 31st, 2006, 03:36 AM	#9
Scott Harper Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 119	Are the matte boxes, follow focus systems, filters comparable in quality to other companies that charge a lot more? On the face of it I've always wondered why Matte Boxes, rails, follow focus systems are so expensive in the first place. I can only guess that because so few are sold about 80% if the cost is in holding stock, marketing, advertising, etc.[/QUOTE] I own the Cavision matte box and also picked up a set of filters, including their Polarizer, which I promptly returned for reasons I'll explain. First of all you get what you pay for in this business, just like any other. The Cavision Matte Box is tolerable- but just. They are cheap and plastic feeling not to mention the french and side flags just don't line up, so you get light bleeding in from all directions. Kind of misses the point of having one, right? The Chroziel Matte Box, for example, is far more money but you're comparing apples and... well, a vegetable. If you get a Cavision be sure to get the metal filter holders for the extra $40 buck each because the plastic ones break very easily. With regards to their filters, when I picked mine up three of them didn't even fit into the holders properly. They were either so lose that lightly shaking it would cause it to just simply fall out, and another was so tight I had to force it in. Snug- yes, but try getting it out without it popping across the room and breaking on the floor. The polarizer was just plain worthless! It was somewhat acceptable on a wide shot but I couldn't pull a focus, at all, when zoomed in closer on something. Long story short, I paid the same price for 5 Cavision filters that I ended up paying for each Tiffen one I eventually bought. Expensive, yes. But what good were the others if they didn't fit or you couldn't get a focus. As far as why these things are so expensive I can only say that, when compared to "the real movie gack" it's relatively cheap(trust me)and they don't sell millions of these items like they do car stereos, so, like your 80% rule- it applies here. I didn't bother with the Cavision Follow Focus because, in my opinion, it was less then quality. I instead picked up a Cinetech system that was more than twice the price but much more than twice the craftsmanship. These types of items are precision instruments that take time and money to develop, so for that reason I can justify the cost. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Scott Harper; August 1st, 2006 at 03:04 AM.

August 1st, 2006, 03:38 AM	#10
Fabrizio Sciarra New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 21	well, owning a chrosziel mattebox for my hd 100 and a Vocas for my z1, and had before a Cavision for an xl 1 in my opinion there is no comparison between the first two matteboxes with the cavision, which is just a piece of plastic, a suggestion, save a bit more money and go for a piece of art like the chrosziel, if you work with it, it's a wellworth money spend.Saving money buying something that in a while will be useless it's frustrating. best luck __________________ Fabrizio Sciarra Steadicam Operator SOA member

July 28th, 2006, 12:06 PM	#2
Scott Cantrell Sponsor: TapeWorks Texas Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 357	Trevor, Cavision has systems specked out specifically for the GYHD100 visist http://www.cavision.com/pictures/JVC.../JVCHD100U.htm If you are interested in their products, contact TapeWorks Texas Inc for additonal information. Scott Cantrell TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser 866-827-3489 scott@tapeworkstexas.com

July 29th, 2006, 01:25 AM	#3
Trevor Allin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 152	Thanks Scott I am in the UK, so I will see if this is available this side of the pond. Kind regards Trevor

July 30th, 2006, 02:47 AM	#4
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	hi Trevor I also have the cavision setup. I think Optex were the only uk rep for Cavision but they went under round Christmas time. I imported mine myself and didn't find the cost too prohibitive. Greg C

July 30th, 2006, 12:16 PM	#5
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	Are there reviews available on CAVISION equipment somewhere? They sell a .6x w/a adapter for a fraction of other company's ada[ters. Since the prices are hard to come by for CAVISION, I'm not sure how the prices for other items specifically compare to their counterparts from other companies. I am always comfused when companies and dealers hold back their prices and require a direct contact to get a price. I understand minimum advertised prices, and a link or an email takes care of this, but whenever items require a phone call and there are no prices otherwise available, I'm suspicious as to why. (There is an audio supply company that requires phone a phone call, and they are okay... but the result for me has been that the only items I order from them are the items I no in advance will be a lower price -- a certain brand of microphone -- and all other items I buy elsewhere.) Are the matte boxes, follow focus systems, filters comparable in quality to other companies that charge a lot more? On the face of it I've always wondered why Matte Boxes, rails, follow focus systems are so expensive in the first place. I can only guess that because so few are sold about 80% if the cost is in holding stock, marketing, advertising, etc.

August 4th, 2006, 12:43 AM	#12
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	you know I very carefully checked out the various setups this NAB, and the cavision stuff was cr@p. sloppy,low precision, junk. not just my opinion but that of several other people I spoke with that I'd call well qualified on the subject. I've used the chroziel on F900's and D600's, and it just works, no excuses. is the chroziel and petroff a bit over priced ? yes, but it does work, yes, and its far better made. another thought, it'll last you your next couple of cameras. Just like getting a real wireless audio setup setup. I spent $2k for a lectrosonics setup, I've used it on who knows how many video cameras, and quite a few film shoots in several countries over the last 10 years. when you look at it like that, it was a great deal. Like you tell your clients, you get what you pay for... I wish there was a high quality matte box / rods / follow focus that would NOT set you back $3k..... but there really isn't much choice. Steve Oakley

August 4th, 2006, 02:16 AM	#13
Stephan Ahonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 512	Even if the matte box is letting a bit of light in around the edges, as long as those edges don't happen to line up with a major light source what's the problem? As for a follow focus... What's the point unless you have a focus puller? If you're not using a 35mm adaptor your depth of field is so huge you don't need any extra sensitivity a follow focus will give you. If you have a 35mm adaptor and 35mm primes you can probably afford a follow focus. Honestly, sometimes I think everyone tries to be a bit too "filmlike" here. There are things I've never seen in years of professional ENG shooting being leapt upon because "that's how film does it."

August 4th, 2006, 09:09 AM	#14
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	When I ordered my Cavision matte box I also ordered 3 of their filters. I don't think I actually ever shot anything for real with them. The glass just wasn't ok, and I am a best an amateur. All my filters are Tiffen...although I am intrigued by some others. However, the 3x3 matte box itself wasn't that bad, other than the too thin filter holders. Are their rods really junk?