"Stories abound of HD100s failing for various reasons"

Jonathan Nelson · July 23rd, 2006, 08:50 PM

Heck, they are still saying that SSE is an issue.

It is too bad that we don't have any tools such as a poll to help concentrate the truth of the matter.

I just give everyone my xp and they can take it or leave it. You get enough people with the same problem and I think you might find a legitimate flaw.

I backed out of buying lots of products due to user opinions and I have not regretted it. All I know is that I have had extremely good luck listening to the guinea pigs with their positive/negative opinions. You just have to sort threw it all and eventually you will figure it out.

K. Forman · July 23rd, 2006, 08:56 PM

Actually, I haven't noticed any SSE in my cam. They fixed that issue. Now, about the drop outs and red frames... :)

Jonathan Nelson · July 23rd, 2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

Actually, I haven't noticed any SSE in my cam. They fixed that issue. Now, about the drop outs and red frames... :)

SSE is a non issue for sure but there are still people out there who list it as a hd100 con. Its just an example that relates to what Steve Oakley was saying. I agree with him on the most part except for the tape issue of course!

I can't say for sure that the drop outs or red frames are an inherent flaw. As you said in another thread, we might be the only "blessed" hd100 users. We will never know until we either get a working replacement or a public out cry. IMO, the drop out/ red frame problem is an ISSUE but only because I have had it in both my jvc's and now I see others on this forum with a similar problem.

If this truly is an issue, we should be seeing more "oh s***, my footage is gone" threads.

K. Forman · July 23rd, 2006, 09:19 PM

I suppose, but we also need to consider how many people on this board have the HD100. Then, the percentage of owners with issues. If there are only 10 members here with this cam, and 6 of us are having the same problem, you can do the math yourselves. Then, what about the rest of the web boards? I rarely go anywhere but here, so I can't say. But others have said users of HDusers forums have expressed issues too.

Steve Oakley · July 23rd, 2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

There are several of us in this thread- http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...hd100+problems
Most of us have the A model, one guy has 3 with this problem.

One here, but he was also using Panny tapes-
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...hd100+problems

Two guys with tapes getting eaten here-
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...hd100+problems

You want more? Do your own search. Like I said, it seems like a lot, and it may just be the new product bugs working out. But it is a huge pain in the rear as well.

yes I do. so far, lets be generous, and that 6 people had problems. JVC has sold what, 12,000+ cameras, more now. lets see, thats .005% defect rate - assuming there really was a problem with the camera, not one bad tape going through and crudding the heads up. Ok, great, that one wierd red pattern looks like something odd in the camera. thats ONE. Do you think any product has a 100% reliabilty rate from the factory ?

before you can go around saying there is this huge problem, lets see a few hundred cameras with the same problem. Then you might have a claim with basis that there is a design or manufactoruing defect of significance.

most of those problems have been tape related.

true story. I bought a Sony 327A camera head + case many years ago, its long gone now. COD charge was $6500. Delivered via fedex. I watch the truck pull up, the box is about 3 1/2ft tall, and almost as large square. the driver's knows the COD value. he pulls it to the back edge of the truck, and pushes it off, drops 3ft... thankfully no damage but my point - the camera may of well of left the factory perfect, but a good drop could of knocked out the tape path alignment. It happens.

before you can pronouce a design or manufactoring defect, you have to rule out all the other factors.

case in point. guy has two cameras. shoots on cam A with tape A and sees drop outs. plays the tape in the camera again, still NG. puts the tape into CAM B, and still problems. Now guy loads new tape into both CAM A and B. BOth record messed up now. His conclusion = both cameras are defective. Truth, the first tape was shedding, and contaminated both cameras. Way too many people assume cause action relationships without considering all the facts.
sometimes a bad DV head clog will take three or even four passes with the head cleaner. I've had this twice with my DSR-20. nobig deal, not the end of the world, its tape and it happens.
I've live through a few 3/4 head clogs where one head clogs, but not the other. everyother field is bad. Again, its tape, and its the nature of the beast.
another user has claims about panasonic PQ tape. I've used cases of the stuff just fine. again, it just happens sometimes. people are jumping to quick conclusions without fully examining the facts, or even bothering to get them, but are just running around claiming its the cameras fault.

so unless you can pile up a few hundred similar cases, its pretty hard to make some of the claims being alleged.

Steve Oakley

K. Forman · July 23rd, 2006, 10:37 PM

You have several valid points. Being the new owner of a fine cam with some issues is just really a bummer. I've struggled, scrimped, and sold my house, to get it, based on working results. It is being resolved, and pretty quickly at that, so that's good.

I also don't think every one of them is bad. I really do think it is a beatiful piece of equipment, when functiong properly. Mine isn't. And the first place I go, is to this forum. There are enough highly experienced folk here, and somebody knows the answer. Sure enough, there are several people here with the same issues. I don't even know how many members own it, but there are a few.

Ultimately, all that matters in the end? The camera I just spent $6,000 on, works like it is supposed to.

Drew Curran · July 24th, 2006, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

I suppose, but we also need to consider how many people on this board have the HD100. Then, the percentage of owners with issues. If there are only 10 members here with this cam, and 6 of us are having the same problem, you can do the math yourselves. Then, what about the rest of the web boards? I rarely go anywhere but here, so I can't say. But others have said users of HDusers forums have expressed issues too.

Keith

This is what forums like this are all about - people having problems or questions relating to their cameras. 99% of people will never even visit a forum like this.

You quote 6 out of 10 users being high. If we apply this to 12000+ sold, that makes approx 8000 faulty HD100's...

I haven't had any dropped frames or errors yet. I'll be sure to post if it ever happens.

By the way i'm using ProHD tapes.

Andrew

Dennis Stevens · July 24th, 2006, 05:53 AM

Of course this all started because of one article that stated 'HD100 fails for various reasons'....

Well, could that statement be a little more vague? 'Fail' could be the thing doesn't start, too a few more artifacts under certain conditions, to who knows what.

I guess the caveat 'for various reasons' can be interpreted to include 'things like bad tape that have nothing to do with the camera design.'

K. Forman · July 24th, 2006, 07:35 AM

Actually, I think this started because some cameras didn't work at a satisfactory level.

John Vincent · July 24th, 2006, 08:30 AM

Remember that Andrew Young took one the 1st JVC 100s into the depths of Madagasgar, where he literally dropped it into a river in the middle of a jungle.

He dried it out over a fire and BAM! It started working. That's what sold me...

I think that considering there's over 12 thousand of them out in the market and counting AND the ability to report any failings as soon as they happen on forums like this, there have been very few complaints - especially after the firmware upgrade/better calibration to fix the SSE problem, then the "A" upgrade to correct anything else...

That coupled with what has to be the best customer response in the biz - don't sweat it!

jdv

Dennis Stevens · July 24th, 2006, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

Actually, I think this started because some cameras didn't work at a satisfactory level.

The thread started with a quote from an online article stating 'Stories abound....' etc.

And the camera has had documented problems - the SSE issue early and apparent some cameras (yours and mine, for example) have some CCD issues. At least that's what I understand JVC told TapeworksTexas and that's why they are replacing yours (and mine, BTW).

My point is saying 'Stories abound of of HD100s failing for various reasons' invites uninformed speculation, and suggests that there's a widespread problem. But it's not clear to me what the CCD issue is and how many cameras apparently have it.

K. Forman · July 24th, 2006, 08:42 AM

I'm not sure about customer response. I called the number, was 0 in the que, and still waited at least 10-15 minutes for a guy to take my name and phone number, and give me the Pro number. I called the Pro number, and the wait was estimated to be one minute. 10 minutes later, I got the same guy. He said to send it back to the dealer, or take it to a JVC licencsed repair shop. The closest one is about 2 hours from me. In the end, it is being resolved though, without having to make 20 calls, or threaten anybody. That is nice.

My biggest compliments go to Tapeworks Texas, the dealer. After posting my symptoms here, I get a call from Jason, the one who sold me the cam. He wanted to know what was up with the cam, and tried his best to find an answer. The fact that this all coinsided with Carl Hick's vacation didn't make it easier, but he found the right techs, and said they'd switch it out. Another point I am unused to; he said they would send the replacement with a shipping label for mine! No credit card charge, no having to pay to ship it back before getting the replacement... all above and beyond. I wish more folk would take their cue from this!

K. Forman · July 24th, 2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Stevens

The thread started with a quote from an online article stating 'Stories abound....' etc.

And the camera has had documented problems - the SSE issue early and apparent some cameras (yours and mine, for example) have some CCD issues. At least that's what I understand JVC told TapeworksTexas and that's why they are replacing yours (and mine, BTW).

My point is saying 'Stories abound of of HD100s failing for various reasons' invites uninformed speculation, and suggests that there's a widespread problem. But it's not clear to me what the CCD issue is and how many cameras apparently have it.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? If cameras weren't failing, there would be no article, and no thread. It may not be as wide spread as the article implies, but it is still a real issue. I have one of the cameras to prove it, and so do you, right? Or are your camera problems just your imagination too?

Dennis Stevens · July 24th, 2006, 09:24 AM

No, I'm not denying or down playing the problems at all. I just shipped my camera off to the dealer today, and am going through camera withdrawal.

My point is not that the camera is or is not having problems. My point is with the article, which makes a very broad statement. The point of the article, as I understand it, is to inform the reader about HDV and has a sidebar on the some of the HDV cameras on the market.

However, the writer makes a broad statement, then doesn't give much context. IMHO, if I was going to put that big statement in, I'd try to put some extra info in to help the reader understand what the problems are.

Frustratingly, the writer says he's also seen great stuff out of the JVC.
So 'stories abound' about it's failing, but the author has done great work with it with no problems. So the article is supposed to inform the reader, but it generates more heat than light where this camera is concerned.

Dennis Stevens · July 24th, 2006, 09:35 AM

Then again, I may be going off on a tangent due to camera withdrawal.... Sorry if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill...

July 23rd, 2006, 08:56 PM	#17
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Actually, I haven't noticed any SSE in my cam. They fixed that issue. Now, about the drop outs and red frames... :) __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 23rd, 2006, 09:19 PM	#19
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I suppose, but we also need to consider how many people on this board have the HD100. Then, the percentage of owners with issues. If there are only 10 members here with this cam, and 6 of us are having the same problem, you can do the math yourselves. Then, what about the rest of the web boards? I rarely go anywhere but here, so I can't say. But others have said users of HDusers forums have expressed issues too. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 23rd, 2006, 10:37 PM	#21
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	You have several valid points. Being the new owner of a fine cam with some issues is just really a bummer. I've struggled, scrimped, and sold my house, to get it, based on working results. It is being resolved, and pretty quickly at that, so that's good. I also don't think every one of them is bad. I really do think it is a beatiful piece of equipment, when functiong properly. Mine isn't. And the first place I go, is to this forum. There are enough highly experienced folk here, and somebody knows the answer. Sure enough, there are several people here with the same issues. I don't even know how many members own it, but there are a few. Ultimately, all that matters in the end? The camera I just spent $6,000 on, works like it is supposed to. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 24th, 2006, 07:35 AM	#24
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Actually, I think this started because some cameras didn't work at a satisfactory level. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 24th, 2006, 08:30 AM	#25
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	This sucker is tough Remember that Andrew Young took one the 1st JVC 100s into the depths of Madagasgar, where he literally dropped it into a river in the middle of a jungle. He dried it out over a fire and BAM! It started working. That's what sold me... I think that considering there's over 12 thousand of them out in the market and counting AND the ability to report any failings as soon as they happen on forums like this, there have been very few complaints - especially after the firmware upgrade/better calibration to fix the SSE problem, then the "A" upgrade to correct anything else... That coupled with what has to be the best customer response in the biz - don't sweat it! jdv

July 23rd, 2006, 08:50 PM	#16
Jonathan Nelson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kingman Arizona Posts: 298	Heck, they are still saying that SSE is an issue. It is too bad that we don't have any tools such as a poll to help concentrate the truth of the matter. I just give everyone my xp and they can take it or leave it. You get enough people with the same problem and I think you might find a legitimate flaw. I backed out of buying lots of products due to user opinions and I have not regretted it. All I know is that I have had extremely good luck listening to the guinea pigs with their positive/negative opinions. You just have to sort threw it all and eventually you will figure it out.

July 24th, 2006, 05:53 AM	#23
Dennis Stevens Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 425	Of course this all started because of one article that stated 'HD100 fails for various reasons'.... Well, could that statement be a little more vague? 'Fail' could be the thing doesn't start, too a few more artifacts under certain conditions, to who knows what. I guess the caveat 'for various reasons' can be interpreted to include 'things like bad tape that have nothing to do with the camera design.'

July 24th, 2006, 08:42 AM	#27
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I'm not sure about customer response. I called the number, was 0 in the que, and still waited at least 10-15 minutes for a guy to take my name and phone number, and give me the Pro number. I called the Pro number, and the wait was estimated to be one minute. 10 minutes later, I got the same guy. He said to send it back to the dealer, or take it to a JVC licencsed repair shop. The closest one is about 2 hours from me. In the end, it is being resolved though, without having to make 20 calls, or threaten anybody. That is nice. My biggest compliments go to Tapeworks Texas, the dealer. After posting my symptoms here, I get a call from Jason, the one who sold me the cam. He wanted to know what was up with the cam, and tried his best to find an answer. The fact that this all coinsided with Carl Hick's vacation didn't make it easier, but he found the right techs, and said they'd switch it out. Another point I am unused to; he said they would send the replacement with a shipping label for mine! No credit card charge, no having to pay to ship it back before getting the replacement... all above and beyond. I wish more folk would take their cue from this! __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 24th, 2006, 09:24 AM	#29
Dennis Stevens Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 425	No, I'm not denying or down playing the problems at all. I just shipped my camera off to the dealer today, and am going through camera withdrawal. My point is not that the camera is or is not having problems. My point is with the article, which makes a very broad statement. The point of the article, as I understand it, is to inform the reader about HDV and has a sidebar on the some of the HDV cameras on the market. However, the writer makes a broad statement, then doesn't give much context. IMHO, if I was going to put that big statement in, I'd try to put some extra info in to help the reader understand what the problems are. Frustratingly, the writer says he's also seen great stuff out of the JVC. So 'stories abound' about it's failing, but the author has done great work with it with no problems. So the article is supposed to inform the reader, but it generates more heat than light where this camera is concerned.

July 24th, 2006, 09:35 AM	#30
Dennis Stevens Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 425	Then again Then again, I may be going off on a tangent due to camera withdrawal.... Sorry if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill...