Corrupted hd100 footage - What is up?

K. Forman · July 18th, 2006, 11:44 AM

Take a look at my clips Tim... that ain't a drop out or a Premiere problem. It is either the tape or the cam... or just bad mojo.

Jonathan Nelson · July 18th, 2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

Take a look at my clips Tim... that ain't a drop out or a Premiere problem. It is either the tape or the cam... or just bad mojo.

Exact same here. As you know, you can't review the footage while capture on ppro2.0, so I watch it on the hd100 and it looks pretty much the same. I have noticed that when there is only a slight blip; upon review on ppro2.0, that blip was turned into a nasty frame like the one I posted but it was only on the frame where the blip appeared.

My hd100 is the A version and I bought it about 3 weeks ago from b&h.

K. Forman · July 18th, 2006, 01:28 PM

Yeah, what happened to the capture in PP? You used to be able to view while capturing in the old, old versions. I think so anyways.

Dennis Stevens · July 18th, 2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Nelson

I have noticed that when there is only a slight blip; upon review on ppro2.0, that blip was turned into a nasty frame like the one I posted but it was only on the frame where the blip appeared.

I've noticed the same thing. Slight blip on camera becomes big poop after capture. At least one instance came out to 6 frames... Perhaps a problem in one frame is messing up the GOP? (And I don't mean the Republican Party!)

Anyways, I'll send Tim some raw footage later today. Along with a big message of thanks for da help.

Is it so that everyone here reporting the problem is a Premiere Pro 2.0 user?
I also have AspectHD. I didn't use it for this particular tape, I'll do so today and see what happens.

Jonathan Nelson · July 18th, 2006, 02:19 PM

I have this idea but I am not sure if it would be technically accurate.

I have two hd100s and so I could plug them both together via firewire. Have one setup as a vtr and have them both record the same footage.

The problem is that I don't know if the data coming out of the firewire is the same going to the hd100 deck and so this test might not work. I guess I need do some research to figure this out but I am sure most of you guys know ;)

The other problem is that there is no way of telling if both tapes are identical. I would use two brand new sony tapes that came from the same package but I am thinking that there would still be differences. The only way this test will prove anything is if the flaws occur at the same moments (such as a pan) on both tapes. They don't have to be on the same frame but at least near the instance.

I will post my m2ts of both sets if I do see this occurrence.

Sound like a good idea?

K. Forman · July 18th, 2006, 02:46 PM

Like I said, I can't blame Premiere for the problems, because they originate from the tape. Now, it might be the camera, and the way it records to the tape, but not the NLE's fault.

David Brown · July 18th, 2006, 03:16 PM

How common of a problem is this for the JVC gy-hd100a? Do a lot of people complain about these glitches? I am thinking about buying the JVC gy-hd100a but if it randomly distorts a minute plus on tape that is unacceptable. Has anyone heard if the Canon HL X1 had this problem? Is there a certain DV tape that JVC recommends especially for this camcorder?

Jonathan Nelson · July 18th, 2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Brown

How common of a problem is this for the JVC gy-hd100a? Do a lot of people complain about these glitches? I am thinking about buying the JVC gy-hd100a but if it randomly distorts a minute plus on tape that is unacceptable. Has anyone heard if the Canon HL X1 had this problem? Is there a certain DV tape that JVC recommends especially for this camcorder?

I second this question because I remember someone saying that jvc had 12000 of these units all over the world. If everyone had the problems that we are experiencing then I would think there would be 12000 angry individuals with jvc on the top of their hit list.

Honestly, do most of the individuals who extensively use the hd100 have CRONIC tape distortions?

I am sure this is a tape problem, I would bet people using firestores do not see these kind of anomalies. I would be so sad if this turned out to be a widespread problem. I would have to question my jvc faith :(

Barry Green · July 18th, 2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Nelson

I have two hd100s and so I could plug them both together via firewire. Have one setup as a vtr and have them both record the same footage.

The problem is that I don't know if the data coming out of the firewire is the same going to the hd100 deck and so this test might not work.

That would work. The same compressed data would be written to both tapes, so if there's any difference whatsoever between the recordings, it would be attributable to the tape itself and no other factor.

Jonathan Nelson · July 18th, 2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

That would work. The same compressed data would be written to both tapes, so if there's any difference whatsoever between the recordings, it would be attributable to the tape itself and no other factor.

Thanx Barry for the information.

Well, I am going to go out and shoot some stuff to see if the problem is parallel with my two hd100s or just the one. The issue at hand might not be consistent enough to show any real results but at least I could see if the problem is exists on both my jvcs.

Dennis Stevens · July 19th, 2006, 06:15 AM

I sent an email off to Tim, but I might as well post it. I got 17 seconds of footage which shows the problem I'm seeing.

www.catzillaproductions.com/Test2.zip (unzipped it's an mpeg file). It's about 35 MB if you're willing to download. I transferred right from the tape (in the camera) over firewire to my c:\ drive.

I didn't use AspectHD, just PP2.0 with the HDV plug in project settings of 720/30p.

Watching it in windows media player you see some small problems, don't know if they are technically dropped frames or artifacts.

But watching them in the PP2.0 timeline they show up as big green blotches, or half the frame is messed up.

If anyone feels like showing their technical analysis expertise, feel free and gracias.

Dave Rochelle · July 19th, 2006, 09:37 AM

Dennis -

The glitches on your clip look exactly like the problems I have been experiencing. I have 3 HD100's and have seen this on all of them. Although I do use PPro, I can attest that my problem is independent of the software - on all occasions, you can clearly see the hits/drop-outs - whatever you want to call them - on the raw tape - playing back straight from the BR-HD50 to a monitor.

In my case, the footage always captures into PPro exactly how it appears on the raw tapes (the glitches remain exactly the same - they are there but are no worse once in the NLE).

For the record, I have used only JVC ProHD media in all of the cameras - and have experienced at least 1 or 2 of these glitches (sometimes far more) on nearly every tape I have shot with each of the 3 cameras.

All three of my cameras are currently in for the 'A' upgrade - and I included a detailed letter with each camera asking JVC to look into this problem.

Tim Brown · July 19th, 2006, 09:56 AM

Perhaps there is a bad batch of ProHD tapes out there. Do you guys still have the box the tapes came in? Perhaps there's a correlation there.

K. Forman · July 19th, 2006, 10:17 AM

Does it smell like... lemony to you guys? How many have actually chimed in with this issue on just this board? So far, I'm the only one getting the red screen that I know of. That's about normal ;)

By the way, the numbers on the bottom of my tape box are M2AKDO9.

Dennis Stevens · July 19th, 2006, 10:47 AM

I'll post the number on my box tapes.... though I have 20 minutes of clean footage on the same tape, shot at a different location at a different time.

So.... people are thinking there's bad tape(s) that are causing a lot of crappy frames?

July 18th, 2006, 11:44 AM	#16
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Take a look at my clips Tim... that ain't a drop out or a Premiere problem. It is either the tape or the cam... or just bad mojo. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 18th, 2006, 01:28 PM	#18
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Yeah, what happened to the capture in PP? You used to be able to view while capturing in the old, old versions. I think so anyways. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 18th, 2006, 02:46 PM	#21
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Like I said, I can't blame Premiere for the problems, because they originate from the tape. Now, it might be the camera, and the way it records to the tape, but not the NLE's fault. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 19th, 2006, 10:17 AM	#29
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Does it smell like... lemony to you guys? How many have actually chimed in with this issue on just this board? So far, I'm the only one getting the red screen that I know of. That's about normal ;) By the way, the numbers on the bottom of my tape box are M2AKDO9. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 18th, 2006, 02:19 PM	#20
Jonathan Nelson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kingman Arizona Posts: 298	I have this idea but I am not sure if it would be technically accurate. I have two hd100s and so I could plug them both together via firewire. Have one setup as a vtr and have them both record the same footage. The problem is that I don't know if the data coming out of the firewire is the same going to the hd100 deck and so this test might not work. I guess I need do some research to figure this out but I am sure most of you guys know ;) The other problem is that there is no way of telling if both tapes are identical. I would use two brand new sony tapes that came from the same package but I am thinking that there would still be differences. The only way this test will prove anything is if the flaws occur at the same moments (such as a pan) on both tapes. They don't have to be on the same frame but at least near the instance. I will post my m2ts of both sets if I do see this occurrence. Sound like a good idea?

July 18th, 2006, 03:16 PM	#22
David Brown New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: san luis obispo Posts: 17	How common of a problem is this for the JVC gy-hd100a? Do a lot of people complain about these glitches? I am thinking about buying the JVC gy-hd100a but if it randomly distorts a minute plus on tape that is unacceptable. Has anyone heard if the Canon HL X1 had this problem? Is there a certain DV tape that JVC recommends especially for this camcorder?

July 19th, 2006, 06:15 AM	#26
Dennis Stevens Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 425	I sent an email off to Tim, but I might as well post it. I got 17 seconds of footage which shows the problem I'm seeing. www.catzillaproductions.com/Test2.zip (unzipped it's an mpeg file). It's about 35 MB if you're willing to download. I transferred right from the tape (in the camera) over firewire to my c:\ drive. I didn't use AspectHD, just PP2.0 with the HDV plug in project settings of 720/30p. Watching it in windows media player you see some small problems, don't know if they are technically dropped frames or artifacts. But watching them in the PP2.0 timeline they show up as big green blotches, or half the frame is messed up. If anyone feels like showing their technical analysis expertise, feel free and gracias.

July 19th, 2006, 09:37 AM	#27
Dave Rochelle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 58	Dennis - The glitches on your clip look exactly like the problems I have been experiencing. I have 3 HD100's and have seen this on all of them. Although I do use PPro, I can attest that my problem is independent of the software - on all occasions, you can clearly see the hits/drop-outs - whatever you want to call them - on the raw tape - playing back straight from the BR-HD50 to a monitor. In my case, the footage always captures into PPro exactly how it appears on the raw tapes (the glitches remain exactly the same - they are there but are no worse once in the NLE). For the record, I have used only JVC ProHD media in all of the cameras - and have experienced at least 1 or 2 of these glitches (sometimes far more) on nearly every tape I have shot with each of the 3 cameras. All three of my cameras are currently in for the 'A' upgrade - and I included a detailed letter with each camera asking JVC to look into this problem.

July 19th, 2006, 09:56 AM	#28
Tim Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 263	Perhaps there is a bad batch of ProHD tapes out there. Do you guys still have the box the tapes came in? Perhaps there's a correlation there.

July 19th, 2006, 10:47 AM	#30
Dennis Stevens Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 425	I'll post the number on my box tapes.... though I have 20 minutes of clean footage on the same tape, shot at a different location at a different time. So.... people are thinking there's bad tape(s) that are causing a lot of crappy frames?