Need cables for capture at DVinfo.net

K. Forman · July 1st, 2006, 05:45 PM

Could somebody point me towards the cables I need for capturing? The HD100 has composites, and I have a Decklink HD Pro dual link. Using both inputs is pretty much a waste of time at present, but how do I get three composite channels into one BNC?

I also have an odd 1394 socket built into the MB. I think it is a 6 pin configuration. Any problems using a 4 pin to 6 pin cable?

Antony Michael Wilson · July 1st, 2006, 06:11 PM

Hi Keith, I think you're getting your signals, er, crossed!

The HD100 has composite CVBS (SD only - NTSC/PAL) and it's not the signal to use for online work - the lowest possible quality out of your camera. The three connectors (when used together) are for component analogue HD or SD (menu setting). This is not called 'composite' and there are certainly not 3 composite connectors. Analogue component is the best possible signal you can get live off the camera head for capture (it will by-pass the HDV encoder as explained by myself and Tim Dashwood).

If you're capturing from tape, use the HDV signal via firewire (yest you can use a 6-pin to 4-pin) or add a converter box like the Convergent Design HD Connect LE to give you RS422 control and HDSDI at 720p or 1080p. If you can't do this, component (NOT composite) analogue in HD will give you the best results but you're adding a digital to analogue conversion process, of course, after the HDV encode committed to tape. If you're coming off the camera you will lose TC, though.

I'm not particularly familiar with Decklink products, but Dual Link sounds like dual link HDSDI for 4:4:4 capture. This is serious over-kill for most purposes. You'd need a converter for this because neither the camera nor the BRHD50 deck will output this signal. I suspect you can capture standard HDSDI into the card (for which you'll need a converter) and - depending on the card model - analogue component, which you can feed directly from the camera or the deck.

As to the cables themselves, you can buy or make up phono to BNC cables or just get adaptors for phono to phono or BNC to BNC cables if you already have these. But remember: you'll need three cables - one for each part of the component signal. You certainly don't want to put 3 BNCs into one and I doubt you really want to use the composite signal!! Composite uses one connector; component uses all three (which feed a signal to 3 separate inputs on the right capture card).

Hope this helps.

Tony

K. Forman · July 1st, 2006, 06:22 PM

Thanks Antony. And yes, I am getting my signals crossed, because I am clueless at this point! I have no deck yet, so I need to run from the cam to the PC. I was just getting the hang of DV and Firewire ;)

So, I just need to take one cable with a BNC on one end, and a RCA on the other? There is no SDI input that I can see, just 2 BNC in, 2 BNC out. Oh, and a breakout cable that has monitor out, SPDIF in and out, and RS22 control- which does me no good at this point.

Antony Michael Wilson · July 2nd, 2006, 03:32 AM

Hi Keith

Right - to summarise:

The HD100 can output composite CVBS (SD only - you would use only one cable - phono to BNC), component (HD or SD selectable in the the HD100 menu - you need to use THREE cables - all phono to BNC), HDV (for tapes recorded in HDV or live when camera is in HDV mode) and DV (for tapes recorded in DV or live when camera is in DV mode).

The HD100 cannot output SDI HD or SD. You would need a converter for this.

I have never used a Decklink Card but I have been on the Blackmagic site and if you are referring to the Decklink HD Pro then you have a problem because this card has no analogue inputs whatsoever. Furthermore, the two BNC inputs are for dual link SDI (4:4:4 stream) which is serious overkill for footage shot on this camera in nearly all circumstances. You would need two cables for this.

Don't forget that a cable is just a cable; it cannot convert the signal! You cannot simply plug your composite out into the Decklink SDI input! For SDI signals you would want to convert component HD (THREE cables out to converter's THREE inputs) to SDI - one cable for standard HDSDI 4:2:2 stream. Also, using one cable from the HD100 means composite, which is SD only and terrible quality. If you need to use the analogue outputs you should use COMPONENT, which requires three cables running to three COMPONENT inputs, whether on a SDI converter or directly into an analogue-capable capture card/BOB.

Bottom line: it seems to me that you need to use a different capture card and also get your head around the different broadcast video signals.

Email me privately if you'd like me to explain things thoroughly.

Best

Tony

K. Forman · July 2nd, 2006, 08:52 AM

This is where I'm getting confused, I think, getting a grip on terminology and use. Thank you for trying to help me with this. When I get back from Disney, we
may very well pick this up again. Thanks again Tony :)

Tim Dashwood · July 5th, 2006, 10:26 AM

Keith,

Did you just buy your Decklink card? If you bought it with the intention to capture from the HD100, then you bought the wrong card. You actually need the Decklink HD EXTREME which has analog component input as well as SDI. It is actually cheaper than the Decklink HD Pro, but it doesn't do dual link 4:4:4 like your current card (which is absolute overkill for most HD purposes, and you will need a killer RAID Array and kick-ass processor just to use 4:4:4.)

If you don't have the option to exchange your Decklink HD Pro and you still want to capture analog component from either the HD100 or BR-HD50 deck, then you will need to purchase a Component to SDI converter like the Decklink Multibridge.

I love the decklink systems, but the different models can be confusing at times.

Joe Carney · July 5th, 2006, 11:53 AM

Along these same lines, what is the maximum safe length for component HD cables?

K. Forman · July 7th, 2006, 06:02 PM

Tim- I grabbed the card off ebay cheap. It seems I have yet to buy the right stuff for anything. Right now, I have no deck, and will have to figure out how to get the footage off the cam itself.

Stephen L. Noe · July 7th, 2006, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

Tim- I grabbed the card off ebay cheap. It seems I have yet to buy the right stuff for anything. Right now, I have no deck, and will have to figure out how to get the footage off the cam itself.

Hi Keith,

Do you have the 100e or the 101 camera? Have you considered using the firewire signal directly into your iLink or 1394 port on your computer?

K. Forman · July 7th, 2006, 07:27 PM

Ummm... would ya believe I don't even have a 1394 wire that will work? The cam has a 6 pin, the MB has a built in 6 pin, and all I can find are 4 pin to 4 pin, or 4 pin to USB. As soon as I can recoup some cash, I'll head over to Wally Mart. This vacation wiped us out, financially and physicly... and mentally too I suspect ;)

July 1st, 2006, 05:45 PM	#1
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Need cables for capture Could somebody point me towards the cables I need for capturing? The HD100 has composites, and I have a Decklink HD Pro dual link. Using both inputs is pretty much a waste of time at present, but how do I get three composite channels into one BNC? I also have an odd 1394 socket built into the MB. I think it is a 6 pin configuration. Any problems using a 4 pin to 6 pin cable? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 1st, 2006, 06:22 PM	#3
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Thanks Antony. And yes, I am getting my signals crossed, because I am clueless at this point! I have no deck yet, so I need to run from the cam to the PC. I was just getting the hang of DV and Firewire ;) So, I just need to take one cable with a BNC on one end, and a RCA on the other? There is no SDI input that I can see, just 2 BNC in, 2 BNC out. Oh, and a breakout cable that has monitor out, SPDIF in and out, and RS22 control- which does me no good at this point. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 2nd, 2006, 08:52 AM	#5
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	This is where I'm getting confused, I think, getting a grip on terminology and use. Thank you for trying to help me with this. When I get back from Disney, we may very well pick this up again. Thanks again Tony :) __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 5th, 2006, 10:26 AM	#6
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Keith, Did you just buy your Decklink card? If you bought it with the intention to capture from the HD100, then you bought the wrong card. You actually need the Decklink HD EXTREME which has analog component input as well as SDI. It is actually cheaper than the Decklink HD Pro, but it doesn't do dual link 4:4:4 like your current card (which is absolute overkill for most HD purposes, and you will need a killer RAID Array and kick-ass processor just to use 4:4:4.) If you don't have the option to exchange your Decklink HD Pro and you still want to capture analog component from either the HD100 or BR-HD50 deck, then you will need to purchase a Component to SDI converter like the Decklink Multibridge. I love the decklink systems, but the different models can be confusing at times. __________________ Tim Dashwood

July 5th, 2006, 11:53 AM	#7
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Along these same lines, what is the maximum safe length for component HD cables? __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

July 1st, 2006, 06:11 PM	#2
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	Hi Keith, I think you're getting your signals, er, crossed! The HD100 has composite CVBS (SD only - NTSC/PAL) and it's not the signal to use for online work - the lowest possible quality out of your camera. The three connectors (when used together) are for component analogue HD or SD (menu setting). This is not called 'composite' and there are certainly not 3 composite connectors. Analogue component is the best possible signal you can get live off the camera head for capture (it will by-pass the HDV encoder as explained by myself and Tim Dashwood). If you're capturing from tape, use the HDV signal via firewire (yest you can use a 6-pin to 4-pin) or add a converter box like the Convergent Design HD Connect LE to give you RS422 control and HDSDI at 720p or 1080p. If you can't do this, component (NOT composite) analogue in HD will give you the best results but you're adding a digital to analogue conversion process, of course, after the HDV encode committed to tape. If you're coming off the camera you will lose TC, though. I'm not particularly familiar with Decklink products, but Dual Link sounds like dual link HDSDI for 4:4:4 capture. This is serious over-kill for most purposes. You'd need a converter for this because neither the camera nor the BRHD50 deck will output this signal. I suspect you can capture standard HDSDI into the card (for which you'll need a converter) and - depending on the card model - analogue component, which you can feed directly from the camera or the deck. As to the cables themselves, you can buy or make up phono to BNC cables or just get adaptors for phono to phono or BNC to BNC cables if you already have these. But remember: you'll need three cables - one for each part of the component signal. You certainly don't want to put 3 BNCs into one and I doubt you really want to use the composite signal!! Composite uses one connector; component uses all three (which feed a signal to 3 separate inputs on the right capture card). Hope this helps. Tony

July 2nd, 2006, 03:32 AM	#4
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	Hi Keith Right - to summarise: The HD100 can output composite CVBS (SD only - you would use only one cable - phono to BNC), component (HD or SD selectable in the the HD100 menu - you need to use THREE cables - all phono to BNC), HDV (for tapes recorded in HDV or live when camera is in HDV mode) and DV (for tapes recorded in DV or live when camera is in DV mode). The HD100 cannot output SDI HD or SD. You would need a converter for this. I have never used a Decklink Card but I have been on the Blackmagic site and if you are referring to the Decklink HD Pro then you have a problem because this card has no analogue inputs whatsoever. Furthermore, the two BNC inputs are for dual link SDI (4:4:4 stream) which is serious overkill for footage shot on this camera in nearly all circumstances. You would need two cables for this. Don't forget that a cable is just a cable; it cannot convert the signal! You cannot simply plug your composite out into the Decklink SDI input! For SDI signals you would want to convert component HD (THREE cables out to converter's THREE inputs) to SDI - one cable for standard HDSDI 4:2:2 stream. Also, using one cable from the HD100 means composite, which is SD only and terrible quality. If you need to use the analogue outputs you should use COMPONENT, which requires three cables running to three COMPONENT inputs, whether on a SDI converter or directly into an analogue-capable capture card/BOB. Bottom line: it seems to me that you need to use a different capture card and also get your head around the different broadcast video signals. Email me privately if you'd like me to explain things thoroughly. Best Tony

July 7th, 2006, 06:02 PM	#8
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Tim- I grabbed the card off ebay cheap. It seems I have yet to buy the right stuff for anything. Right now, I have no deck, and will have to figure out how to get the footage off the cam itself. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

July 7th, 2006, 07:27 PM	#10
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Ummm... would ya believe I don't even have a 1394 wire that will work? The cam has a 6 pin, the MB has a built in 6 pin, and all I can find are 4 pin to 4 pin, or 4 pin to USB. As soon as I can recoup some cash, I'll head over to Wally Mart. This vacation wiped us out, financially and physicly... and mentally too I suspect ;) __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us