Another Final Cut Update, JVC Users Snubbed Again

Steve Mullen · June 22nd, 2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Williams

I was at NAB and I saw the apple FCP 24p demode and it looked like it was working great, I watched it for about an hour almost bought the 17" apple note book pro it was being demo'ed on but I also want an HDV burner so I am also going to wait for both. I can tell you that the demonstration of 24p in Final Cut Pro was working very well.

Apple was very clear this was not a demo of what they plan to ship. It was a hacked version of 30p support. What they lid about was that something was coming soon.

Simply put, both Apple and Avid need to incorporate a general MPEG-2 engine that works as universally as a hardware codec. So far they have simply hacked in 1080i60 and 720p30 support. Just like the hacked 24p we saw at NAB.

This MPEG engine needs to be integrated into the current engine so ANYTHING can be in a timeline.

I realize many would settle for much less, but I'm convinced Avid and Apple are going to do it "right" no matter how long we have to wait.

Gary Williams · June 22nd, 2006, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Apple was very clear this was not a demo of what they plan to ship. It was a hacked version of 30p support. What they lid about was that something was coming soon.

Simply put, both Apple and Avid need to incorporate a general MPEG-2 engine that works as universally as a hardware codec. So far they have simply hacked in 1080i60 and 720p30 support. Just like the hacked 24p we saw at NAB.

This MPEG engine needs to be integrated into the current engine so ANYTHING can be in a timeline.

I realize many would settle for much less, but I'm convinced Avid and Apple are going to do it "right" no matter how long we have to wait.

And I am willing to wait, if your correct Steve and they do it right and fit it with an HDV burner it won't matter what they come out with in the next several years, I think it will be a good time to throw the money on the table so to speak for allot of people. I personaly will be able to do just about anything I want creatively, with a level of quality I can be content with that's in a reasonable price range and offers very little limitation. I personaly can see my self being content with the technology at hand for some time if this is infact where we end up in the fall, which is what I am hopping for as I continue to to collect footage for future projects I hope to be working on in the fall of this year.

Antony Michael Wilson · June 23rd, 2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Apple was very clear this was not a demo of what
I realize many would settle for much less, but I'm convinced Avid and Apple are going to do it "right" no matter how long we have to wait.

Well, I expect that both companies will get it right when they finally release their updates but I suspect that the delay is less a question of getting it right and more a question of getting around to it! It wouldn't really be so annoying if they didn't keep promising without delivering. Avid's official line is now 'Q4 2006' but I was told by Avid reps at IBC 2005 (September) that full HDV1 support would be coming in 'weeks' and 'certainly by the end of the year'. Then it was, helpfully, '2006'. I phoned Avid UK in January and was told 'Wait for NAB - you should be pleasantly surprised'. These are direct quotes, which Avid are now, of course, blaming on rogue employees! Similarly, Apple have been promising support in the 'next maintenance release' for some time. Well, it seems that wasn't true either.

I have had an off-the-record chat with a certain individual in one of these companies and I'm told that 720p/25/50/24 just was not seen as a priority and was deliberately repeatedly postponed to make way for other more lucrative projects. It's a real pain for us, of course, and I'm sure JVC Europe is not too pleased either.

Drew Curran · June 23rd, 2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson

Well, I expect that both companies will get it right when they finally release their updates but I suspect that the delay is less a question of getting it right and more a question of getting around to it!

I have had an off-the-record chat with a certain individual in one of these companies and I'm told that 720p/25/50/24 just was not seen as a priority and was deliberately repeatedly postponed to make way for other more lucrative projects. It's a real pain for us, of course, and I'm sure JVC Europe is not too pleased either.

I jumped on board the Apple boat about 3 years ago and have had a very good experience so far. In general they are very forward thinking and are always at the forefront of computer technology!

It baffles me how they can delay something like 24p support, considering it is at the forefront of digital film technology!! I thought that they would be in the thick of it helping the indie film maker. I mean they really have been pushing the whole HD thing with all their video products - so why not 720p 24 or 25?

Maybe Holywood is more up their street now...

Andrew

Gary Williams · June 23rd, 2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson

Well, I expect that both companies will get it right when they finally release their updates but I suspect that the delay is less a question of getting it right and more a question of getting around to it! It wouldn't really be so annoying if they didn't keep promising without delivering. Avid's official line is now 'Q4 2006' but I was told by Avid reps at IBC 2005 (September) that full HDV1 support would be coming in 'weeks' and 'certainly by the end of the year'. Then it was, helpfully, '2006'. I phoned Avid UK in January and was told 'Wait for NAB - you should be pleasantly surprised'. These are direct quotes, which Avid are now, of course, blaming on rogue employees! Similarly, Apple have been promising support in the 'next maintenance release' for some time. Well, it seems that wasn't true either.

I have had an off-the-record chat with a certain individual in one of these companies and I'm told that 720p/25/50/24 just was not seen as a priority and was deliberately repeatedly postponed to make way for other more lucrative projects. It's a real pain for us, of course, and I'm sure JVC Europe is not too pleased either.

With more HDV Cameras sold and near in the future PC's comming out with HDV burners this year, I think it will be a priority now. I think who ever comes out with the package deal first is going to get a big share in the market! It would be wise to speed this up asap as long as their are no preformance issues with the product delaying delivery.

Joel Aaron · June 23rd, 2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Curran

It baffles me how they can delay something like 24p support, considering it is at the forefront of digital film technology!! I thought that they would be in the thick of it helping the indie film maker.

I bought a G5 a year ago believing in "Apple" and its dedication the video market. Well, I sold my G5 and built a PC to edit. Will Apple lose me forever? I dunno... maybe. I sure got a lot more PC for my money than I had in my G5.

Antony Michael Wilson · June 23rd, 2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Aaron

I bought a G5 a year ago believing in "Apple" and its dedication the video market. Well, I sold my G5 and built a PC to edit. Will Apple lose me forever? I dunno... maybe. I sure got a lot more PC for my money than I had in my G5.

I sympathise. I've been a big Apple fan for some time but the G5 really isn't all that fast and Apple really aren't particularly cutting edge these days. When you put away the rose-tinted spectacles Apple products aren't spectacular and you can usually do a lot more - or at least just as much - with a decent Wintel machine. FCP's biggest flaw is that it ties you to one rather over-hyped platform. Sure, many things about Apple are good but it's important not to believe the hype!

Most computers are rubbish IMHO!

Anyway, it really does suck that full HDV1 support STILL isn't here. On that I think we can all agree.

Jim Giberti · June 23rd, 2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson

Anyway, it really does suck that full HDV1 support STILL isn't here. On that I think we can all agree.

I think we have unanimity on the sucking part.

Steve Benner · June 23rd, 2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

I think we have unanimity on the sucking part.

+1 To that

Paul Jefferies · June 23rd, 2006, 02:32 PM

I spoke to a UK JVC rep at the production show and yes, the statement "I'll bet JVC are less than happy" is very true...

Robert Schaller · June 23rd, 2006, 04:55 PM

I find this lack of 720p24 particularly odd since it is possible to import it into iMovie (as 720p59.94 AIC), then reconform it to 23.98 in cinematools, then import it into FCP, and there it is, on the timeline, as AIC 720p24. One has to import the audio seperately, but, at least in a sub-optimal way, it's already there. I can't see that it would be a major programming problem to formalize it. I can only conclude that there is another reason that has perhaps to do with economics and market collusion (which is baseless speculation on my part, but what else has Apple given us to go on?). Why else would Apple continue to drag its feet in supporting the best film-like video format yet for the under $20k crowd?

Aren't there Apple folks on this website? What, indeed, gives?

Joel Aaron · June 23rd, 2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Schaller

Aren't there Apple folks on this website? What, indeed, gives?

Did someone at JVC steal Steve Job's girlfriend when they were kids?

I swear it almost seems personal. They had the HVX supported before it was released.

Steve Benner · June 23rd, 2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Aaron

Did someone at JVC steal Steve Job's girlfriend when they were kids?

I swear it almost seems personal. They had the HVX supported before it was released.

Well DVC PRO HD is a older Codec so it was only the matter of supporting P2 media.

Joel Aaron · June 23rd, 2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Benner

Well DVC PRO HD is a older Codec so it was only the matter of supporting P2 media.

That reason is not nearly as entertaining. :-P

And Cineform (a couple programmers?) managed to figure it out... hey wait - Newman's the guy who stole Job's girlfriend. Aha!

Steve Benner · June 23rd, 2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Aaron

That reason is not nearly as entertaining. :-P

And Cineform (a couple programmers?) managed to figure it out... hey wait - Newman's the guy who stole Job's girlfriend. Aha!

I am not defending Apple or Avid for not Supporting the Pro HD Format. Both are clearly just Lazy or Snubbing and should have had it supported by now.

June 23rd, 2006, 02:32 PM	#25
Paul Jefferies Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Croydon, England Posts: 277	I spoke to a UK JVC rep at the production show and yes, the statement "I'll bet JVC are less than happy" is very true...

June 23rd, 2006, 04:55 PM	#26
Robert Schaller New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boulder colorado Posts: 16	I find this lack of 720p24 particularly odd since it is possible to import it into iMovie (as 720p59.94 AIC), then reconform it to 23.98 in cinematools, then import it into FCP, and there it is, on the timeline, as AIC 720p24. One has to import the audio seperately, but, at least in a sub-optimal way, it's already there. I can't see that it would be a major programming problem to formalize it. I can only conclude that there is another reason that has perhaps to do with economics and market collusion (which is baseless speculation on my part, but what else has Apple given us to go on?). Why else would Apple continue to drag its feet in supporting the best film-like video format yet for the under $20k crowd? Aren't there Apple folks on this website? What, indeed, gives?