New Short Film with HD-100/ Mini35

Brian Duke · June 28th, 2006, 11:49 PM

Thanks Keith for the support and encouragement. I joined here a little under a year ago to learn some of the technical aspects of the camera etc. The people on here are absolutely wonderful and I have learned a ton, and nothing I say here or anywhere else should take that away, but I do concur with you that there could be some more discussions on the substance of movie making, i.e. the story and the actors that portray it. Perhaps it isn't the proper forum for it? I don't know the answer.

Just a few of my own thoughts:

If you have a bad script you will have a bad movie.

If you have a good script, but bad actors performing, you will have a bad movie.

If you have a good script, good actors, but bad direction you will have a bad movie.

If you have a good script, good actors, good director, but bad editing, you will have a bad movie.

If you have a good script, good actors, good director, good editing, but bad music you will have a pretty bad movie =) Think of Star Wars with Techno music. Will the movie be the same? Some may say yes. But that will just show how important even music can be, for good or worse.

My point is, you can have great resolution, lighting, frame rates, compression, colors etc (all technical to some extend) with all the above points and still have a bad movie. HOWEVER, If you have great story, actors, director, editing, music and BAD lighting etc, you still have a great movie. At least in my opinion. This doesn't mean you cannot be creative as a DP and make art out of motion pictures. You absolutely can, and should be at any given time, but how many can honestly say they want to watch 90 minutes of moving art on screen? Although I do love some movies more for the art, than the story. E.G. Lost in Translation had no interesting story, but had a great sense of tone and very artfully done, at least in my opinion.

So I say with you, STORY STORY STORY, then get the proper actors and director and you are onto something. beautiful cinematography can only carry a movie so far before the audience fall asleep. But what do I know ;)

Mouayed Zabtia · June 29th, 2006, 06:38 AM

i trat to vist the site but something wrong
http://hd-motionpictures.com/TwistofFate.html

Jay Barnes · June 29th, 2006, 09:45 AM

Brian, that's a great short. I enjoyed it, thanks.

I do sometimes forget while we're sorting through all the technical minutiae that it not as much about the tools as the story. But I can't resist asking if you shot in 30P. I'm not a frame rate expert and so I'd like to be able to say here's a good example of what __P looks like...

-Jay

Brian Duke · June 29th, 2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouayed Zabtia

i trat to vist the site but something wrong
http://hd-motionpictures.com/TwistofFate.html

I tried the link you posted and it works ry again.

Brian Duke · June 29th, 2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Barnes

Brian, that's a great short. I enjoyed it, thanks.

I do sometimes forget while we're sorting through all the technical minutiae that it not as much about the tools as the story. But I can't resist asking if you shot in 30P. I'm not a frame rate expert and so I'd like to be able to say here's a good example of what __P looks like...

-Jay

HEy Jay, don't worry, there's nothing wrong with techniocal discussions, just shouldn't be the only focus.

I shot in 24fps, 720P. =)

Andy Graham · October 16th, 2006, 04:52 PM

Brian how your film passed me by without noticing it i do not know (i must have been busier than i remember that month).

I have to hand it to ya, its one of the best shorts i've seen (and living near Edinburgh i've seen a lot of em at the Fringe Film festival).

Every aspect was extremely well done, the story was great, the acting was amazing, your camera work with the mounts jibs etc was awsome. It has also just solidified my own desire to completely ADR my next feature.

I guess the best compliment i can give is that normally i download folks work and toss it in the bin when im done but i think i'll hang on to yours to show my crew.

Andy.

Brian Duke · October 16th, 2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Graham

Brian how your film passed me by without noticing it i do not know (i must have been busier than i remember that month).

I have to hand it to ya, its one of the best shorts i've seen (and living near Edinburgh i've seen a lot of em at the Fringe Film festival).

Every aspect was extremely well done, the story was great, the acting was amazing, your camera work with the mounts jibs etc was awsome. It has also just solidified my own desire to completely ADR my next feature.

I guess the best compliment i can give is that normally i download folks work and toss it in the bin when im done but i think i'll hang on to yours to show my crew.

Andy.

Thanks for your really kind comments. I assume you are referring to Twist of Fate, which I really am not too happy with, but I am too hard on myself, and it was really just a small test that I did to see what I could do with the camrera. I wrote the script really quickly (mistake no. 1) and I only cast one day (mistake no. 2) and then, I rushed the shoot (mistake no. 3), and lastly, we ended up with bad sound (mistake no. 4) .

So here are some suggestions for you:

AVOID ADR if you can. Get some good lav wireless mics, and a boom for safety. Only do ADR if you absolutely have to, such as with sound problem on set.

Do NOT rush your shoot, especially to save a few bucks. In the end if you don't have what you want in the end then all the work is basically for nothing. Wait until you have anough dough to shoot what you NEED and WANT.

Spend time casting. Its important. All that matters is what you have in the can at the end, everything else means nothing to a viewer. It isn't easy, but hopefully we can better with each film. I feel MUCH better with my last project.

Good luck, and again thanks for your nice comments

David Scattergood · October 17th, 2006, 03:44 AM

Brian, have you had the chance to add any more footage from your latest project?
I too was impressed with Twist of fate - one of the reasons I bit the bullet and went for the HD100.
Did I ask you how you got the music on there? Did you have to pay royalties etc?

Brian Duke · October 17th, 2006, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Scattergood

Brian, have you had the chance to add any more footage from your latest project?

Almost done with it. Had some issues with the green screen we shot, but should be done within a month. I am currently doing post sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Scattergood

I too was impressed with Twist of fate - one of the reasons I bit the bullet and went for the HD100.

Thanks, and are you happy with your choice?

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Scattergood

Did I ask you how you got the music on there? Did you have to pay royalties etc?

That was just some temp music added, which I probably won't change since I am on to other projects. It’s all public domain, except performances, of course, but I am not that concerned about it, unless one day I was going to make a buck on it.

David Scattergood · October 17th, 2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

"Thanks, and are you happy with your choice?"

Indeed. Haven't really tested it to it's full capability as yet but I will be shortly. It pretty much has exactly the look I was after and for a relatively reasonable price.

Quote:

"That was just some temp music added, which I probably won't change since I am on to other projects. It’s all public domain, except performances, of course, but I am not that concerned about it, unless one day I was going to make a buck on it."

So what will you be doing with the twist of fate project? I'm going to do the majority of the music on the documentary I'm soon making, but was curious as to how I could get by adding a commercial track should I wish?
Thanks Brian.

Brian Duke · October 17th, 2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Scattergood

Indeed. Haven't really tested it to it's full capability as yet but I will be shortly. It pretty much has exactly the look I was after and for a relatively reasonable price.

So what will you be doing with the twist of fate project? I'm going to do the majority of the music on the documentary I'm soon making, but was curious as to how I could get by adding a commercial track should I wish?
Thanks Brian.

Twist of Fate was really just a quick test I wanted to do to see how far I could take the camera, and also to test my own skills, i.e. to see how much on paper (script) would actually translate onto screen. It was a practice piece. I didn't expect much from it, and I am pretty happy with it, but it is what it is. It isn't my masterpiece and I am not pursuing it commercially. However, the next few pieces I am working on will be a different story. I plan on doing a feature next year so I needed to get some shorts under my wings to perfect my skills and not waste practicing on a feature with more money at stake.

If you are just doing it for a director's reel, or for immediate family and friends I wouldn't worry too much about music, but if you are fixed on taking it the commercial route then you should look into licensing and/or compose your own music. Even festivals are not that strict with copyrighted music, but each festival is different. If it is temp it generally is not a big deal what music you are using. Do some research after deciding what you want to do.

Giuseppe Pugliese · October 18th, 2006, 04:30 AM

I was watching TV the other day, and a commercial came on and the lead actress in your short was the girl in the commercial, I don’t remember exactly what it was about but she was the main girl in the commercial and if I remember correctly it was a high end commercial... just thought someone would like to know

:)

David Scattergood · October 18th, 2006, 04:51 AM

Thanks Brian - I will research. I'll be doing the scoring anyhow but wished to add a commercial track in there somewhere - no biggy.
Also missed the last page or two of this thread and reading back there are some really helpful bits of knowledge (agree about Lost in Translation - characterisation and script pretty much flawed but it's great to watch - the music succeeds really well in that movie).

Cheers.

Brian Duke · October 18th, 2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giuseppe Pugliese

I was watching TV the other day, and a commercial came on and the lead actress in your short was the girl in the commercial, I don’t remember exactly what it was about but she was the main girl in the commercial and if I remember correctly it was a high end commercial... just thought someone would like to know

:)

I made her famous hehe. Its a friend of mine, and it was probably the Mickey Dee commercial. I can't believe you remember.

John Vincent · October 19th, 2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Duke

HOWEVER, If you have great story, actors, director, editing, music and BAD lighting etc, you still have a great movie. At least in my opinion. So I say with you, STORY STORY STORY, then get the proper actors and director and you are onto something. beautiful cinematography can only carry a movie so far before the audience fall asleep. But what do I know ;)

Well, I agree with this to a point. First of all, there are plenty of films that have had great script/acting/lighting/art departments/music/directing that suck. Not just, "Not great," but out right suck.

Making a great film is always a crap shoot, no matter what talent you have lined up, what script you have (ever watch a bad large budget film based on a play by Shakespeare? Sure you have). There are so many variables, so many things that can go wrong and so many things that have to go right to make a great film. Think of the thousands of films that have been made and how few would qualify in your mind as "great."

If the photography is so bad that you can't see the actors, then yeah, photograpghy matters. Think of 2002: A SPACE ODESSEY - it is largely a film featuring great photography and a little nice dialogue/acting. In this movie (and many great films) the motion picture IS what tells the story.

Well, that's photography. Lot's of other things affect the story telling in films - Don't underestimate music's ability to tell the story. If you have any doubt of this, watch STAR WARS w/o the music - It's nowhere near the same heroic story w/o the music, is it? Remember, there are only 22 stories (man vs man, man vs nature, etc). There have been more than one film saved in post production and transformed into greatness (HALLOWEEN comes to mind - John Carpenter has admitted that w/o the music the film's a disaster).

It's not so much the story, as the story teller (in this case, the director).

John
evilgeniusentertainment.com

June 28th, 2006, 11:49 PM	#61
Brian Duke Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hollywood, California Posts: 899	Thanks Keith for the support and encouragement. I joined here a little under a year ago to learn some of the technical aspects of the camera etc. The people on here are absolutely wonderful and I have learned a ton, and nothing I say here or anywhere else should take that away, but I do concur with you that there could be some more discussions on the substance of movie making, i.e. the story and the actors that portray it. Perhaps it isn't the proper forum for it? I don't know the answer. Just a few of my own thoughts: If you have a bad script you will have a bad movie. If you have a good script, but bad actors performing, you will have a bad movie. If you have a good script, good actors, but bad direction you will have a bad movie. If you have a good script, good actors, good director, but bad editing, you will have a bad movie. If you have a good script, good actors, good director, good editing, but bad music you will have a pretty bad movie =) Think of Star Wars with Techno music. Will the movie be the same? Some may say yes. But that will just show how important even music can be, for good or worse. My point is, you can have great resolution, lighting, frame rates, compression, colors etc (all technical to some extend) with all the above points and still have a bad movie. HOWEVER, If you have great story, actors, director, editing, music and BAD lighting etc, you still have a great movie. At least in my opinion. This doesn't mean you cannot be creative as a DP and make art out of motion pictures. You absolutely can, and should be at any given time, but how many can honestly say they want to watch 90 minutes of moving art on screen? Although I do love some movies more for the art, than the story. E.G. Lost in Translation had no interesting story, but had a great sense of tone and very artfully done, at least in my opinion. So I say with you, STORY STORY STORY, then get the proper actors and director and you are onto something. beautiful cinematography can only carry a movie so far before the audience fall asleep. But what do I know ;) __________________ Visit me and my work at www.artofduke.com

October 16th, 2006, 04:52 PM	#66
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	Brian how your film passed me by without noticing it i do not know (i must have been busier than i remember that month). I have to hand it to ya, its one of the best shorts i've seen (and living near Edinburgh i've seen a lot of em at the Fringe Film festival). Every aspect was extremely well done, the story was great, the acting was amazing, your camera work with the mounts jibs etc was awsome. It has also just solidified my own desire to completely ADR my next feature. I guess the best compliment i can give is that normally i download folks work and toss it in the bin when im done but i think i'll hang on to yours to show my crew. Andy. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

October 18th, 2006, 04:30 AM	#72
Giuseppe Pugliese Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 392	hmm I was watching TV the other day, and a commercial came on and the lead actress in your short was the girl in the commercial, I don’t remember exactly what it was about but she was the main girl in the commercial and if I remember correctly it was a high end commercial... just thought someone would like to know :)

June 29th, 2006, 06:38 AM	#62
Mouayed Zabtia Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 52	i trat to vist the site but something wrong http://hd-motionpictures.com/TwistofFate.html

June 29th, 2006, 09:45 AM	#63
Jay Barnes New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 15	Brian, that's a great short. I enjoyed it, thanks. I do sometimes forget while we're sorting through all the technical minutiae that it not as much about the tools as the story. But I can't resist asking if you shot in 30P. I'm not a frame rate expert and so I'd like to be able to say here's a good example of what __P looks like... -Jay

October 17th, 2006, 03:44 AM	#68
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Brian, have you had the chance to add any more footage from your latest project? I too was impressed with Twist of fate - one of the reasons I bit the bullet and went for the HD100. Did I ask you how you got the music on there? Did you have to pay royalties etc?

October 18th, 2006, 04:51 AM	#73
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Thanks Brian - I will research. I'll be doing the scoring anyhow but wished to add a commercial track in there somewhere - no biggy. Also missed the last page or two of this thread and reading back there are some really helpful bits of knowledge (agree about Lost in Translation - characterisation and script pretty much flawed but it's great to watch - the music succeeds really well in that movie). Cheers.