Disappointed in Redrock M2 adapter

[Jonathan Ames]

Originally Posted by Joel Aaron

As far as the ability to knock the unit out of focus, that's been possible with the M2 on every camera since the beginning. Bump the zoom and you're out of focus. That's not going to change for any adapter/camera combo that doesn't have a custom made relay lens. You can use a 55mm male to male macro coupler to try to link the M2 to the Fujinon so they are locked together. That's part of what I'm working on now, but I won't have one here for a few days.
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Actually, Joel, I agree with you wholeheartedly except for the above part. I was at the JVC booth for hours with JVC people there, as you know we bought 6 of their cameras and are buying another 6 of the 250s when they are availbale, and saw person after person grab and claw at the camera with the Redrock device on it., These pelople beat the heck out of that demo camera moving it back and forth, side to side, uop and down without so much as a hint of anyone needing to do adjustments between people looking through the viewfinder. That went on for 4-days so somone did something to that particular Redrock device to assure that the focus never went out of alignment because I couldn'tr even breathe on the one I was using without the focus going whacky.

[Joel Aaron]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ames

I was at the JVC booth for hours ...These pelople beat the heck out of that demo camera

Hmm... are there any pictures of that unit anywhere? I'll email Brian and ask him if there was anything special about it.

In my case I'd say the whole rig is pretty sensitive because several different things cause issues. The 35mm lens usually has pretty shallow DOF so if the subject moves a foot you're out of focus. Welcome to film. :-) If the Fujinon to the Micro35 orientation is changed by the camera rotating just a little on the tripod plate then you're all or partially out of focus.

If the zoom setting moves a millimeter then you're out of focus. If the Macro setting moves a millimeter you're out of focus. If the focus moves that could do it too... but it needs to move more.

I think Gaff tapes solves the latter issues. I'm hoping the 55mm Macro Coupler solves the Fujinon to M2 connection issue. There's a guy who's done it with an HVX, so it's possible. At that point everything's pretty much locked down and you should be able to "go for it".

[Michael Maier]

Originally Posted by Joel Aaron

I'm hoping the 55mm Macro Coupler solves the Fujinon to M2 connection issue. There's a guy who's done it with an HVX, so it's possible. At that point everything's pretty much locked down and you should be able to "go for it".

Can you elaborate a little here about what you're trying to do?

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Can you elaborate a little here about what you're trying to do?

I think the frustration being expressed here has to do with the adapter bolting onto the front of the cameras regular lens, and becoming a problem when you have to continually focus the camera lens to be sure it is getting sharpest image of the ground glass. I am gathering that the slight bumping will throw it out of focus, and require refocusing constantly. They want to be able to lock down that focus-- that's my impression, any way.

[Stephan Ahonen]

Probably the best thing to do would be to turn the HD100 focus ring until it hits some extreme then focus on the ground glass using the macro ring. Then even if you do bump the focus, you just turn it back to the extreme instead of having to tweak it.

[Joel Aaron]

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Can you elaborate a little here about what you're trying to do?

Physically connect the Micro35 to the Fujinon so they are aligned perfectly and stay that way even if the unit is knocked around.

Brian mentioned the NAB unit wasn't anything out of the ordinary. His process is to set focus to infinity, macro to maximum and then use the zoom to focus on the ground glass.

[Jonathan Ames]

I tried to call Taylor but no luck so I left a message for him to call me. But I swear, when he did what ever he did, we spun the camera around and it stayed perfectly in focus. OK, not spun it around in a circle but cetrtainly 180 degrees from side to side multiple times because we were looking through the viewfinder as he was explaining things and using the monitor as we focused on different objects in the shot and the focus held perfectly. I didn't move the whole camera or tripod obviously and thus change the distance from the subject to the lens plane because that would change the focus but whatever he did to secure the unit, he didn't use gafftape or anything but whatever the system had bolted to it. To be exact, we had a coral fan at about 2 feet away on a coffee table, an actor at 6' 6" away on a sofa and the backyard garden setting behind that. We ran the shot from the focus on the fan for 5 seconds, shifted focus to the actor for about 30 seconds of dialogue and then conmpleted the shot with the focus on the yard. 7 takes later and abunch of lostling of set and camera and whatnot, we never had to adjust for anything getting out of alignment so whatever Taylor did, it sounds like he ought to bottle it and sell it or at least rent it out. We won't use the system all that much because most of what we do is sports but we do have 4 cameras in the color commentary booth so were hoping to equip those but not if we can't count on holding focus with the slightest jar.

[Joel Aaron]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ames

OK, not spun it around in a circle but cetrtainly 180 degrees from side to side multiple times because we were looking through the viewfinder as he was explaining things and using the monitor as we focused on different objects in the shot and the focus held perfectly.

Oh - I've always been able to do that. You should be able to use it normally on a tripod, dolly, steadicam or whatever!

All I'm saying is if someone gives the unit a really good knock or touches the zoom setting you're probably going to be out of focus. Not sure what your exact problem was - but what Taylor got for you is my normal experience.

[Jonathan Ames]

Well then it must be me and my camera guys because we couldn't get it to hold focus at all when we reassembled the unit. Perhaps we just need something that doesn't exist yet but I was sure, after seeing the Redrock display, that we would be able to buy a half dozen of them like the JVCs we bought when we started making the change to HD through HDV in January, send them out with the cameras and crew, set them up in the field just like any other lens, lock them down and go with the shot but we can't so I don't know, I must be doing something wrong. Like I said, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but if I can't figure it out, especially with your guy's help which I hope you know how much I truly appreciate it, alot of other people are going to be scratching their heads also because, again, I was left with the impression at the booth at NAB, just follow the instructions and you're good to go.

Thanks again so much Joel, Stephen, Chris, Mike and whomever I've forgotten. I really do appreciate it.
Joanthan

[Joel Aaron]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ames

I was left with the impression at the booth at NAB, just follow the instructions and you're good to go.

I think Brian from Redrock is in LA. He could probably help you personally. Next time you're in Scottsdale let me know. If you bring your unit I could look at it or show you how I've got mine set up.

[Jonathan Ames]

That sounds great. I have a location shoot there 2 weeks from tomorrow so I'll get with you before I come out. We'll be there for 3 days.
Jonathan

[Jim Giberti]

So I still have this question: would the Zoerk adaptor and a 20mm Nikon AIS lens potentially be an ideal solution with th M2?
Again, having only worked with the Mini 35, I'm still a bit unclear of how you set up the M2.
I realize that you put the adaptor on the front of the Fuji and the 35mm glass on the front of that, but am I right that you put a 72mm lens in between there as well?

[Joel Aaron]

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

but am I right that you put a 72mm lens in between there as well?

35mm<--Micro35<--achromat<--Fujinon(in macro mode)<--HD-100

You can replace the fujinon with a 20mm + Zoerk.

I just did it right now to test this out again. It does work but my 20mm is 2.8, so that's a couple stops slower. I also noticed the field of view is much tighter than the Fujinon at 20mm. I could have sworn the focal length was about the same between the lenses, but maybe I was wrong.

So it now looks to me that you might need a wider lens as a relay and you'd want it FAST.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it worth bothering with? If someone hands me a 17mm 1.2 that's small I'd slap in on there and test it! ;-)

A dedicated custom relay might be worth it though.

[Jonathan Ames]

Joel, Jim and all, let me ask you a question. If you were going for this device and money was no object...within of course reason...what would you do or build with what components, I mean if you had the choice of any lens and system set up, SD Achromat or HD for the shot I described. What I'm trying to figure is if Taylor has specific pieces that the rest of us don't have in addition to the Redrock box or if he's just figured out to manipulate everything for repetitive takes. I thought I was done with this but the issues really got me scratching my head all the way home from the studio.
Jonathan

[Joel Aaron]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ames

What I'm trying to figure is if Taylor has specific pieces that the rest of us don't have in addition to the Redrock box or if he's just figured out to manipulate everything for repetitive takes.

I know I'm MUCH better at using it and setting it up faster now that I've taken the whole thing apart and put it back together 10 times. If Taylor was using YOUR unit then I'd say he's just got the hang of it better.

If it was his unit then your lens or the unit itself may have an issue. I've adjusted darn near everything there is to adjust on there in order to finally get mine performing without vignetting or distortion. I don't really think I've ever an issue like you describe.

Unless your ground glass is loose. That could cause what you're talking about.

As far as what I'd buy - I'd buy RED! But after that I think this unit along with the Primes described in this thread are a great way to go. 35mm F1.4, 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.4 Nikons (maybe 1.2 on the 50mm) and you can cover a lot of ground. I haven't tried a zoom yet.