Isn't the included mic poor. at DVinfo.net

Mike Marriage · May 22nd, 2006, 10:49 AM

One of the few things that I don't like about my HD101 is the supplied mic. Quite muffled sound and a fair amount of hiss.

What have people replaced it with? I already have an MKH60, but I want something smaller to keep mounted on the camera. Any ideas?

Thanks guys!

Paolo Ciccone · May 22nd, 2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Marriage

One of the few things that I don't like about my HD101 is the supplied mic. Quite muffled sound and a fair amount of hiss.

What have people replaced it with? I already have an MKH60, but I want something smaller to keep mounted on the camera. Any ideas?

Hi Mike.

I use a Rode NTG1 mounted to the shoe adapter with the shock mount designed by Rode as well. It was a bundle at B&H. The mic is very nice and a vast improvement compared to the stocker.

Carl Martin · May 22nd, 2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Marriage

One of the few things that I don't like about my HD101 is the supplied mic. Quite muffled sound and a fair amount of hiss.

What have people replaced it with? I already have an MKH60, but I want something smaller to keep mounted on the camera. Any ideas?

Thanks guys!

I use the Sony mic that came with my betacam.

Antony Michael Wilson · May 22nd, 2006, 01:14 PM

Another vote for the Rode. It really isn't up to much compared to a 416 or similar but it's just fine for a basic camera mic, if you ask me. I use it as a back-up.

Alexei Berteig · May 22nd, 2006, 02:44 PM

Yeah, I chucked that JVC mic in the closet. It's pretty much cosmetic. It has a very limited dynamic range, and it's just a lame cardioid sensitivity pattern. I think they put it on the camera just so they could say, "Hey, you can take it out of the box and shoot." Ditto with the stock batteries, as has been well documented on this site.

I noticed a pretty stunning amount of hiss on a couple of different mics I tried. I also found a lot of tape transport and fan noise transfers through the metal body of the camera. The little rubber bits on the mic holder don't really insulate the mic from the noise. I built a little shock mount out of a couple of PVC pipes and it makes a HUGE difference. My friend had a cool little acoustic guitar mic from Sennheiser - cost him a fortune but it was dead quiet when I plugged it in to the camera, so basically I learned that if you get a really good quality mic with high impedance and high sensitivity (expensive) you'll be much happier. The camera also has two settings for standard audio level: -50db and -60db. Depending on the mic you have you may find that changing this setting in the menu system will give you better results.

Personally, I'm going to use lav mics as much as possible, or else a proper shotgun mic on a boom. If I'm desperate, I've got a decent Chinese-made sennheiser replica that'll do the trick for runnin' and gunnin' it.

David Tamés · May 22nd, 2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone

I use a Rode NTG1 mounted to the shoe adapter with the shock mount designed by Rode [...]mic is very nice and a vast improvement compared to the stocker.

The MKH60 weighs 5.3 oz. while the NTG1 is only 3 oz. so for a "leave it on the camera all the time" mic the NTG1 is a good option and the price/performance is hard to beat. However, given you already have a MKH60, and given how amazing it is in terms of sound quality, might not the additional weight be worth it? Could it be that putting the $230 for the NTG1 might be better spent on another type of microphone, making your total arsenal more versatile? I second Paolo's suggestion for using a very good shock mount, cameras make all sorts of noise, so the more isolation between camera and mic the better. The mic that comes with the JVC is a good "back-up" but not something you want your entire shoot depending on.

Gary Morris McBeath · May 22nd, 2006, 04:10 PM

Sanken CS-1. Doesn't stick out too far on the cam, great sound and sensitivity; very small rear lobes. Much like a super-cardoid. Should be mounted in a better mount: I made a tube that goes into the stock mic holder, and to that I mounted my good mic mount. For all my mics I use an Audio Technica AT8415 mount with K-TEK "K-SUS" polymer suspension rubber mounts. Good noise isolation from the camera motor, camera handling etc.

Gary Morris McBeath
SaltAire Cinema Productions

Joe Bowey · May 22nd, 2006, 04:47 PM

How good is the AT 897? I have been reading that the Me-66 stay away from.

Mike Marriage · May 22nd, 2006, 05:17 PM

Thanks for all the info guys!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Tames

However, given you already have a MKH60, and given how amazing it is in terms of sound quality, might not the additional weight be worth it?

Hi David,

My reason is that I keep the MKH60 in Rycote suspension all the time so it is ready to be boomed at a moments notice. I always record key sound (ie interviews) with a remote mic and so the camera top doesn't need to be perfect - just better than the junk that comes with the camera. I don't want to spend a fortune but just get something that will produce acceptable camera-top sound for when I need it.

David Tamés · May 22nd, 2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Marriage

I don't want to spend a fortune but just get something that will produce acceptable camera-top sound for when I need it.

Aha, if that's the case, and you want something better than the included microphone, consider a search on EBay for some of the Sony short shotguns that are often included with their broadcast cameras. These are acceptable mics, however, lots of people sell them when it's time to upgrade, so I see them often on eBay, try searching for Sony models ECM-670, ECM-672, and even the new ECM-673 coming out soon. I'll be selling my own ECM-670 one of these days.

Gary Morris McBeath · May 22nd, 2006, 07:00 PM

OK, just better than the supplied mic: I use an Audio-Technica AT3031 short shotgun (about $170 street) for wide angle audio gathering as back up to the
boomed mic, where the audio quality isn't critical; can use it on or off the cam. Or, for a narrower angle the AT835b shotgun. Both will take a lot of rough handling, and give surprisingly good results. The CS-1 I mentioned earlier is rich for voice and picking up subtle richness, but not so great for really hot locations, like where the train is going by, and just then the engineer lets loose with the whistle. Or trying to mic bagpipes. You know, like a cat screaming. For condenser mics, the AT's are better for that sort of thing.

Gary Morris McBeath
SaltAire Cinema Productions

Chad Terpstra · May 22nd, 2006, 10:26 PM

I'm using the AT897 and think it's a great mic (much better than any typical built-in-on-camera or lav mic). It's very close to the Rode mic, but in my opinion slightly better. When I was deciding I browsed around the "Now Hear This" section and came across a test that TY Ford did between the AT897, the Rode NTG-2, and the Sennheiser 416. Of course the 416 was far above the other two mics, but the 897 sounded the closest of the two contenders to matching it. I believe the price difference is around $20-$30, and the increase in quality is about relative (not terribly much). But others may disagree. I couldn't find the comparison, but maybe if you ask TY, he'll point you to it.

Steve Williams · May 23rd, 2006, 02:31 AM

Mike, you should check out the "Tiny Mike" (yes, that's how they spell it) from the German company "Ambient Recording". I've used one, it is half the price and size of a K6/ME66 and in my opinion has a nicer sound. It is a fantastic mic and really small.

See this link:

http://www.firstsense.co.uk/Ambient/mics.htm

Tim Le · May 23rd, 2006, 08:14 AM

What about the AT-4073a? It's quite a bit smaller and a little lighter than the AT897 (9" vs 11" and 4 oz vs 5 oz). It's also twice the cost of the AT897, but half the price of a 416 and most reviews I've read seem very positive. I don't own one, but that's likely the mic I would choose. I did buy a K6/ME66 once and wasn't really blown away by the sound, especially for $450, so I returned it.

Jemore Santos · May 23rd, 2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Bowey

How good is the AT 897? I have been reading that the Me-66 stay away from.

I bought the AT-897 off B&H and for the price it kicks @ss! I got the kit with the shoe holder and the XLR cable. So I'm using both channels (with the stock), it's really funny how Japan is the home of Audio Technica but they don't have this model. Anyways I recommend this beauty.

May 22nd, 2006, 10:49 AM	#1
Mike Marriage Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NE of London, England Posts: 788	Isn't the included mic poor. One of the few things that I don't like about my HD101 is the supplied mic. Quite muffled sound and a fair amount of hiss. What have people replaced it with? I already have an MKH60, but I want something smaller to keep mounted on the camera. Any ideas? Thanks guys!

May 22nd, 2006, 02:44 PM	#5
Alexei Berteig Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Beijing, China Posts: 38	Yeah, I chucked that JVC mic in the closet. It's pretty much cosmetic. It has a very limited dynamic range, and it's just a lame cardioid sensitivity pattern. I think they put it on the camera just so they could say, "Hey, you can take it out of the box and shoot." Ditto with the stock batteries, as has been well documented on this site. I noticed a pretty stunning amount of hiss on a couple of different mics I tried. I also found a lot of tape transport and fan noise transfers through the metal body of the camera. The little rubber bits on the mic holder don't really insulate the mic from the noise. I built a little shock mount out of a couple of PVC pipes and it makes a HUGE difference. My friend had a cool little acoustic guitar mic from Sennheiser - cost him a fortune but it was dead quiet when I plugged it in to the camera, so basically I learned that if you get a really good quality mic with high impedance and high sensitivity (expensive) you'll be much happier. The camera also has two settings for standard audio level: -50db and -60db. Depending on the mic you have you may find that changing this setting in the menu system will give you better results. Personally, I'm going to use lav mics as much as possible, or else a proper shotgun mic on a boom. If I'm desperate, I've got a decent Chinese-made sennheiser replica that'll do the trick for runnin' and gunnin' it. __________________ http://www.fashionerfilms.com

May 22nd, 2006, 01:14 PM	#4
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	Another vote for the Rode. It really isn't up to much compared to a 416 or similar but it's just fine for a basic camera mic, if you ask me. I use it as a back-up.

May 22nd, 2006, 04:10 PM	#7
Gary Morris McBeath Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Steilacoom Washington Posts: 72	Sanken CS-1. Doesn't stick out too far on the cam, great sound and sensitivity; very small rear lobes. Much like a super-cardoid. Should be mounted in a better mount: I made a tube that goes into the stock mic holder, and to that I mounted my good mic mount. For all my mics I use an Audio Technica AT8415 mount with K-TEK "K-SUS" polymer suspension rubber mounts. Good noise isolation from the camera motor, camera handling etc. Gary Morris McBeath SaltAire Cinema Productions

May 22nd, 2006, 04:47 PM	#8
Joe Bowey Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 217	How good is the AT 897? I have been reading that the Me-66 stay away from.

May 22nd, 2006, 07:00 PM	#11
Gary Morris McBeath Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Steilacoom Washington Posts: 72	OK, just better than the supplied mic: I use an Audio-Technica AT3031 short shotgun (about $170 street) for wide angle audio gathering as back up to the boomed mic, where the audio quality isn't critical; can use it on or off the cam. Or, for a narrower angle the AT835b shotgun. Both will take a lot of rough handling, and give surprisingly good results. The CS-1 I mentioned earlier is rich for voice and picking up subtle richness, but not so great for really hot locations, like where the train is going by, and just then the engineer lets loose with the whistle. Or trying to mic bagpipes. You know, like a cat screaming. For condenser mics, the AT's are better for that sort of thing. Gary Morris McBeath SaltAire Cinema Productions

May 22nd, 2006, 10:26 PM	#12
Chad Terpstra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 320	I'm using the AT897 and think it's a great mic (much better than any typical built-in-on-camera or lav mic). It's very close to the Rode mic, but in my opinion slightly better. When I was deciding I browsed around the "Now Hear This" section and came across a test that TY Ford did between the AT897, the Rode NTG-2, and the Sennheiser 416. Of course the 416 was far above the other two mics, but the 897 sounded the closest of the two contenders to matching it. I believe the price difference is around $20-$30, and the increase in quality is about relative (not terribly much). But others may disagree. I couldn't find the comparison, but maybe if you ask TY, he'll point you to it.

May 23rd, 2006, 02:31 AM	#13
Steve Williams New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York Posts: 12	Mike, you should check out the "Tiny Mike" (yes, that's how they spell it) from the German company "Ambient Recording". I've used one, it is half the price and size of a K6/ME66 and in my opinion has a nicer sound. It is a fantastic mic and really small. See this link: http://www.firstsense.co.uk/Ambient/mics.htm

May 23rd, 2006, 08:14 AM	#14
Tim Le Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 350	What about the AT-4073a? It's quite a bit smaller and a little lighter than the AT897 (9" vs 11" and 4 oz vs 5 oz). It's also twice the cost of the AT897, but half the price of a 416 and most reviews I've read seem very positive. I don't own one, but that's likely the mic I would choose. I did buy a K6/ME66 once and wasn't really blown away by the sound, especially for $450, so I returned it.