Broken Clips

[Ben Brainerd]

Originally Posted by Andrew Young

As for your broken clips, it sounds like they are at start/stops where they're supposed to be, not in the middle of clips as some others are experiencing. Is that right?

Yeah, they are. I'm begining to understand that my problem is more a function of how FCP handles timecode jumps, and not a function of camera error. Wow, I feel sheepish.

It's still kind of annoying that FCP takes ~5 seconds to lock back onto the stream when it hits a TC break in native HDV. Wouldn't really be a big deal if I were shooting commercials, or whatnot, since I'd run 20-30 seconds of preroll anyways. But shooting weddings and events, sometimes you've got the "Hey, look at that!" moment, where the content of the shot starts in the first couple seconds. Not the best shooting technique, I know, but a mans got to sit down sometimes.

But anyways, since my problem seems to be based on a lack of understanding, rather than a technical glitch, I'll bow out and go pore dig through my manuals some more.

[Chunyang Lin]

Originally Posted by Dave Beaty

Using iMovie HD, which captures the tapes correctly as one scene during continuous shots. But I don't relish the idea of exporting hours and hours to QT when the HDV raw files are all I need. Is there a way to get the material out of iMovie to FCPro without exporting?

We use Panasonic DVM63MQ tape and TC is Rec Run.

Dave

Dear Dave,

I've been Suffering the exactly same problem with you, shooting in HDV - 720p30 mode by JVC GY-HD100, using SONY DVM63HDC tape in Rec run TC mode. And the timecode brake frequently when capture via FCP in HDV native, even in the middle of a long take but the end or start part of it.

The way I try to get my video into FCP is, capture via iMove HD in AIC codec (it seems no problem with broken timecode issue so far). Then get the clip file within the iMovie HD file(select the file and use "Show the package Contents" function to get into it.)

Directly drag the clips into FCP project, then edit... no more transcode before the final export!

best
Chunyang

[Dave Beaty]

Originally Posted by Chunyang Lin

Dear Dave,

The way I try to get my video into FCP is, capture via iMove HD in AIC codec (it seems no problem with broken timecode issue so far). Then get the clip file within the iMovie HD file(select the file and use "Show the package Contents" function to get into it.)

Directly drag the clips into FCP project, then edit... no more transcode before the final export!

best
Chunyang

Chunyang,

So it is possible to open the iMovie HD pkg and drag the captures directly to FCPro? How do I set this to AIC in iMovie? I guess I was just assuming the files were coming in as HDV.

Dave

[Chunyang Lin]

Originally Posted by Dave Beaty

Chunyang,

So it is possible to open the iMovie HD pkg and drag the captures directly to FCPro? How do I set this to AIC in iMovie? I guess I was just assuming the files were coming in as HDV.

Dave

Dave,

When you open an new project, select HDV (whether 720p or 1080i), iMove HD set AIC as default codec (and there's no option to make change). so, it'll automaticaly capture HDV in AIC format.

Chunyang

[Yoochul Chong]

i don't think there is a preset, it just captures the video by default (i think) in AIC.

do you have any problems capturing long cllips, say a full tape? i'm using an imac 1.8 g5 and it falls behind when i capture and after i stop the import, the computer captures the remaining video that got left behind.

you can also drag the clip in iMovie's bin to the desktop also.

Yooch

[Chunyang Lin]

Originally Posted by Yoochul Chong

i don't think there is a preset, it just captures the video by default (i think) in AIC.

do you have any problems capturing long cllips, say a full tape? i'm using an imac 1.8 g5 and it falls behind when i capture and after i stop the import, the computer captures the remaining video that got left behind.

you can also drag the clip in iMovie's bin to the desktop also.

Yooch

I did import full tape, no problem so far, but due to AIC, it need to transform the HDV video to AIC during capture, you have to wait for the render procedure.(and the speed depends on your hardware)

I use my Powerbook G4 1.67G with 1.5G RAM inside, the speed of transcode in iMove HD is about 1/4 of realtime. Not good enough, but, at least it's work.

Chunyang

[Yoochul Chong]

you don't need to render if the video preferences are set to AIC. make sure the sequence is set to AIC and you shouldn't have to render. unless you want to move it the HDV and not use AIC.

[Dave Beaty]

Well "A" version does not seem to help with broken clips in FCPro. One of our producers loaded 2 projects today from an "A" camera shoot. Each tape segmented the clips into 80-100 individual clips. I made sure to ask if the segments were during continuous roll, not just on the pause.

Even though this is listed on the JVC update page as a fix.

I can send the tape or clips to anyone in engineering who would like to check it out. Or camera for that matter. I just had our third "A" update performed to fix this problem.

So. I still have to find a way to tell the crew they will have to redigitize the 20 hours of material for the reality show. I just don't want to choose the wrong path, like I did using Firewire HDV capture into FCPro.

I wish I could tell them, "Hey look JVC and Apple will have a fix in two weeks."

But it just doesn't look like that's going to happen. Any suggestions from those wiser than me?

Dave

[Chunyang Lin]

Originally Posted by Yoochul Chong

you don't need to render if the video preferences are set to AIC. make sure the sequence is set to AIC and you shouldn't have to render. unless you want to move it the HDV and not use AIC.

What I mean "render" is, when you are capturing in iMovie, due to the AIC, I have to wait for transcoding. And of course there's no need to render in FCP sequence if it set to AIC.

Chunyang

[Carl Hicks]

Originally Posted by Dave Beaty

Well "A" version does not seem to help with broken clips in FCPro. One of our producers loaded 2 projects today from an "A" camera shoot. Each tape segmented the clips into 80-100 individual clips. I made sure to ask if the segments were during continuous roll, not just on the pause.

Even though this is listed on the JVC update page as a fix.

I can send the tape or clips to anyone in engineering who would like to check it out. Or camera for that matter. I just had our third "A" update performed to fix this problem.

So. I still have to find a way to tell the crew they will have to redigitize the 20 hours of material for the reality show. I just don't want to choose the wrong path, like I did using Firewire HDV capture into FCPro.

I wish I could tell them, "Hey look JVC and Apple will have a fix in two weeks."

But it just doesn't look like that's going to happen. Any suggestions from those wiser than me?

Dave

Hi Dave,

As you may have read earlier in this thread, some users have found the problem to be not with the camera, but with FCP itself - perhaps a setting?

In any case, our customer service techs are wanting to talk directly to anyone who is experiencing this issue to try and help. They may want to see the camera, your tapes, or both. Please send me your full daytime contact info - phone, e-mail, and location, so I can get someone to call you.

Regards,

Carl

[Daniel Weber]

I have been editing HDV footage in FCP for over almost a year now. Mostly stuff shot with a Sony Z1. The timecode issue has been there since day one.

When I talked to Apple reps about it they said that it was a problem with the Sony camera, where there is a small break in the timecode when ever the camera is stopped and started. The only way around it is to make sure that you have enough pre and post roll on your shot at least 5 seconds. I do understand that this is hard to do sometimes.

I wonder if the problem is with how Apple handles the HDV format since it is editing it in a native HDV form. I would guess that this issue is with the GOP since there is not a I frame every frame.

I did do one edit session where I wanted to edit in SD no HDV so I made downconverts via firewire to DVCAM tape. I didn't have a deck that passed the timecode through firewire and there were no problems with the timecode.

Later I did make some downconverted clones that kept the timecode and they had problems with TC breaks as well, in SD DV25 mode eiditing.

I don't think that the problem is with the cameras (since I have seen it with the Sony and now we have reports of the HD100) but with the HDV format and the way that FCP handles timecode.

Dan Weber

[Dave Beaty]

Originally Posted by Daniel Weber

I have been editing HDV footage in FCP for over almost a year now. Mostly stuff shot with a Sony Z1. The timecode issue has been there since day one.

When I talked to Apple reps about it they said that it was a problem with the Sony camera, where there is a small break in the timecode when ever the camera is stopped and started. The only way around it is to make sure that you have enough pre and post roll on your shot at least 5 seconds. ...
Dan Weber

Just to clarify,

The problem we are having is not start and stop related. The breaks occur during a continuous roll. For instance a sound bite in an interview is captured into many pieces. I wouldn't mind if the breaks occured only on pauses.

Dave Beaty

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Chunyang Lin

What I mean "render" is, when you are capturing in iMovie, due to the AIC, I have to wait for transcoding.

Are you talking about the "capture slower than realtime" problem. This should not occur with a fast computer.

[Dave Beaty]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Are you talking about the "capture slower than realtime" problem. This should not occur with a fast computer.

No, this is the problem where FCPro thinks there is a break in the MPEG-2 stream and either stops the capture with a stream error warning, or continues without a warning and breaks the clip at the point of the stream error. Both happen depending on settings in prefs about warnings during TC breaks during capture. (FCPro defaults to this error warning being off, it simply breaks the clip and continues happily on) This is the problem mentioned in the "A" version upgrade FAQ. There is a few secs gap I assume is caused as the hardware locks onto the next stable GOP.

If I roll on a 30 minute shot of clouds, FCPro might break this shot up into many many small clips. I say might, because I haven't figured out exactly why this happens and what factors cause it, to produce seemingly random breaks.

Our machines are Dual 2.3, 4 Gigs Ram, 4 channel SATA Raid, so I don't think it's a speed issue of the machine.

Dave Beaty

[Dave Beaty]

JVC Customer Support is really great. I mean it. What other company monitors a private web board and calls individual users when they have problems? Not many.

Yet Carl and Ken Freed are very proactive in trying to help. They want happy customers.

I am working with Ken now to try to narrow down the problem of broken clips with post "A" cameras and FCPro. I just shot 20 minutes of one shot with one of our 3 cameras. It just got back from the upgrade service center. We'll see what happens...

Dave

OK our test with Camera #2 went well. Out of 20 minutes of material, no broken clips to report! This was captured via a BR-HD50.

Next to test Camera #3