New HD100 Pixel Out at DVinfo.net

Tim Ward · April 15th, 2006, 04:09 PM

My 1 month old HD100 was used today on its first paying job recording two 60 min tapes in SD. After an hour I noticed a a white pixel showing just right of centre on the LCD screen. Thinking this was on the LCD I thought I can't be bothered to send it back just for that.

When I got back to base and played the footage on the BVM monitor there it was again, Aaghhhh! And thats with the gain on low!! Has anyone else had this? Are these CCDs prone to this so early in their life?

Out comes my trusty DSR500 from retirement!

Tim

Eric Brown · April 15th, 2006, 10:02 PM

Tim, I'm seriously considering this camera after reading the DV magazine review and a review by Rodney Charters. Do you have an "A" camera or a previous version? I'm wondering if the hot pixel issue is a problem with the "A" camera as well.
It seems they've addressed the SSE, however?

Stephen L. Noe · April 16th, 2006, 12:32 AM

You'll need to use the pixel mask routine. I've had to do it once and haven't done it again since...

Steven Thomas · April 16th, 2006, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Brown

Tim, I'm seriously considering this camera after reading the DV magazine review and a review by Rodney Charters. Do you have an "A" camera or a previous version? I'm wondering if the hot pixel issue is a problem with the "A" camera as well.
It seems they've addressed the SSE, however?

It doesn't matter what firmware you have.

It's to bad it happened during a shoot, but it takes less than 3 minutes to cure.

Brian Drysdale · April 16th, 2006, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Brown

Tim, I'm seriously considering this camera after reading the DV magazine review and a review by Rodney Charters. Do you have an "A" camera or a previous version? I'm wondering if the hot pixel issue is a problem with the "A" camera as well.
It seems they've addressed the SSE, however?

It's a problem that's not unique to the JVC.

Tim Ward · April 16th, 2006, 07:22 AM

Eric,
Mine is the "E" model, don't think there are any "A" units as such in Europe. The US/Jap version came out first so I think the problems were sorted by the time the Euro model came out.

I know dead pixels can happen in any CCD cam, but not this early surely? I can't find any reference to Pixel Mask in the manual, or am I looking in the wrong place? The only mention in the manual of “white dots” says to move the camera somewhere cooler. Fat lot of help that is!!

Is it in the service menu, and if so how do you get to it? Will it resurrect a dead pixel or I suppose as the name suggests just disguise it with content from surrounding pixels?

Another thing I noticed on the BVM playback, I maybe I am just being very picky, but I notice on lighter parts of the picture there is very faint evidence of a grid pattern. I have only noticed this on DV recordings so far which is another reason I have wondered about the CCDs. If I playback footage form another camera the affect isn’t there. The BVM is connected via component to the DVCAM deck. Any ideas?

Cheers
Tim

Brian Drysdale · April 16th, 2006, 07:30 AM

The HD 100 I tested a couple of weeks ago was an "A" model. It had the little "A" sticker on the Ser. No. plate.

Apparently our tests got delayed because JVC in Germany were doing quality control checks on the brand new demo camera. I assume they're doing this with all the European cameras.

Steven Thomas · April 16th, 2006, 07:56 AM

Tim,
You can shoot me an email at: proaudio4@cox.net
I will give you the needed information.
We are not allowed to post this type of info here.
Also, please bare in mind you have to take full responsibility
for accessing the service menu.

Having said that, it's as easy as selecting the option and executing....
very simple. You can leave your lens cap on, but the process automatically closes the aperture for you.

I'm not sure how JVC is actually implementing this feature. I can only imagine it's interpolated from the nearby pixels.

Eric Brown · April 16th, 2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

The HD 100 I tested a couple of weeks ago was an "A" model. It had the little "A" sticker on the Ser. No. plate.

Apparently our tests got delayed because JVC in Germany were doing quality control checks on the brand new demo camera. I assume they're doing this with all the European cameras.

Notice any SSE on the "A" model, Brian. I'm on the verge of buying the HVX but I'd like to get feedback from anyone using the "A" camera. I'm really on the fence with this one. Incidentally, Tim, sorry for the thread jack.

Joel Aaron · April 16th, 2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Brown

Notice any SSE on the "A" model, Brian. I'm on the verge of buying the HVX but I'd like to get feedback from anyone using the "A" camera. I'm really on the fence with this one. Incidentally, Tim, sorry for the thread jack.

Have you shot both cameras? If you're so frightened of SSE that you'll toss yourself off a pier if you ever get it in any situation then I'd say go for an HVX because you'll never get it.

In my case, I'd toss myself off a pier if I came back with a bunch of out of focus stuff. That's why I'm selling my HVX (feel free to make an offer, I bought it at EVS) and bought a HD-100. It's a MUCH easier camera for me to shoot. I like the picture quality, the shoulder mount and the fact that I can keep moving objects in focus using the the viewfinder or LCD. IMPOSSIBLE (for me) on the HVX. If you cruise the "other forum" which no longer discusses anything but Panasonic and Red you'll see an AWFUL lot of talk regarding the extra $1200+ you're about to spend on a portable external monitor to check focus. Now start adding P2 cards, a P2 Store, and/or a laptop and you're going to realize what I realized. You aren't shooting an HVX without a crew and the image is arguably not as good as the HD-100 in many/most circumstances.

But the focus thing is what drove me friggin' right off the edge of the pier finally.

Tim Dashwood · April 16th, 2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Brown

I'm wondering if the hot pixel issue is a problem with the "A" camera as well.
It seems they've addressed the SSE, however?

There is no hot pixel issue. This is something that can occur on any camera. Just be glad JVC included a routine (as with all professional cameras) to quickly mask the pixel.

BTW, dead pixels on CCDs are usually caused by gamma rays. This typically happens when shipped on an airplane, especially when flight paths are near the North Pole.
I sent one of my cameras out on a job a few months ago. It flew to Australia, then to Hong Kong, then back to Canada. When I got it back it had one more dead pixel so I had to run the pixel compensation routine. No biggie.

Brian Drysdale · April 17th, 2006, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Brown

Notice any SSE on the "A" model, Brian. I'm on the verge of buying the HVX but I'd like to get feedback from anyone using the "A" camera. I'm really on the fence with this one. Incidentally, Tim, sorry for the thread jack.

Eric,

We had a hiccup with the test, the camera died on the last day and the tape was still inside the camera. It's gone back to JVC and we haven't got it back yet.

It was a new camera, so I'm taking it as: if something goes wrong, chances are it'll be in the first 12 hours of use. I've told the producer if he's going to buy one of the HDV type cameras run a burn in at least a couple of weeks before the shoot. I've had this problem with a couple of Minolta meters, blew in the first day or so, had the part replaced and been in use for 10 years without a problem. Also, I haven't heard large numbers complaining online, so it doesn't seem to be that common.

Looking at a SD monitor I didn't see any SSE, even at + 18db, but I'm planning to get some frame grabs to have a better look (when I get the tape back). However, I think it's something that seems to vary from camera to camera. Looking at the HD 100 review mentioned in another thread, running a SSE test at + 18 db against defocused green seems to be the way to check your camera.

Other than the hiccup, I really liked the camera. Although, if we go for it, I'd push for the Fujinon wide angle. Tim's tests are really useful, since we couldn't test either the W/A or the 2/3" adapter.

Tim Ward · April 17th, 2006, 06:03 AM

Eric,
Just to put on record, despite the dead pixel issue in the first few hours of use, so far I have seen no SSE and in every other respect this is a very good camera which I am very happy with. I agonised over the choice of a "budget" HD camera and after much research and looking at the specs of the Sony, JVC and Pana, I opted for the HD100 and don't regret it.

Despite the many advantages of the detachable lens and 720p over 1080i etc, it was only a 100 quid more than the Sony which after all is based on a high end domestic camera. My cameraman friends all opted for the Sony and tried to make me do the same, but they now only use theirs where they would have used their PD150/170s previously. I wanted to get away form the small DV look and when converted down to SD the pics on the JVC look very good. The colour is not quite as rich but otherwise compares very well with Digibeta. The Sony has a more advanced conversion engine and a useful feature to enlarge the LCD image to assist focus but otherwise the JVC is more of a cameraman’s cam. It seems after Sony has dominated broadcast and pro video for so long that JVC have done their homework to break that monopoly.

Just be mindful of a few who consider 720p as inferior to 1080i based purely on the number of lines. As all who have looked into this more deeply will know, this is not the case, but that’s another thread!

Cheers
Tim

Eric Brown · April 17th, 2006, 08:15 PM

Awesome. Thanks for the input everyone. It will help me in making my final decision.

Jonathan Ames · April 17th, 2006, 09:03 PM

As those who have gone before have said correctly, the dead pixel fix is not irreversible and not endemic to JVC. It's fixable and once done, you have an awesome unit. We're shooting 6 of them and putting them through rough paces most people will never approach with no problem. It's a hit or miss deal. Fix it, be done with it and, like like the man said, "Don't worry; Be happy"!

April 15th, 2006, 04:09 PM	#1
Tim Ward New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Aberystwyth, Wales (thats NOT England) Posts: 15	New HD100 Pixel Out My 1 month old HD100 was used today on its first paying job recording two 60 min tapes in SD. After an hour I noticed a a white pixel showing just right of centre on the LCD screen. Thinking this was on the LCD I thought I can't be bothered to send it back just for that. When I got back to base and played the footage on the BVM monitor there it was again, Aaghhhh! And thats with the gain on low!! Has anyone else had this? Are these CCDs prone to this so early in their life? Out comes my trusty DSR500 from retirement! Tim

April 16th, 2006, 07:56 AM	#8
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Tim, You can shoot me an email at: proaudio4@cox.net I will give you the needed information. We are not allowed to post this type of info here. Also, please bare in mind you have to take full responsibility for accessing the service menu. Having said that, it's as easy as selecting the option and executing.... very simple. You can leave your lens cap on, but the process automatically closes the aperture for you. I'm not sure how JVC is actually implementing this feature. I can only imagine it's interpolated from the nearby pixels. Last edited by Steven Thomas; April 17th, 2006 at 02:56 AM.

April 15th, 2006, 10:02 PM	#2
Eric Brown Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 427	Tim, I'm seriously considering this camera after reading the DV magazine review and a review by Rodney Charters. Do you have an "A" camera or a previous version? I'm wondering if the hot pixel issue is a problem with the "A" camera as well. It seems they've addressed the SSE, however?

April 16th, 2006, 12:32 AM	#3
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	You'll need to use the pixel mask routine. I've had to do it once and haven't done it again since...

April 16th, 2006, 07:22 AM	#6
Tim Ward New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Aberystwyth, Wales (thats NOT England) Posts: 15	Eric, Mine is the "E" model, don't think there are any "A" units as such in Europe. The US/Jap version came out first so I think the problems were sorted by the time the Euro model came out. I know dead pixels can happen in any CCD cam, but not this early surely? I can't find any reference to Pixel Mask in the manual, or am I looking in the wrong place? The only mention in the manual of “white dots” says to move the camera somewhere cooler. Fat lot of help that is!! Is it in the service menu, and if so how do you get to it? Will it resurrect a dead pixel or I suppose as the name suggests just disguise it with content from surrounding pixels? Another thing I noticed on the BVM playback, I maybe I am just being very picky, but I notice on lighter parts of the picture there is very faint evidence of a grid pattern. I have only noticed this on DV recordings so far which is another reason I have wondered about the CCDs. If I playback footage form another camera the affect isn’t there. The BVM is connected via component to the DVCAM deck. Any ideas? Cheers Tim

April 16th, 2006, 07:30 AM	#7
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	The HD 100 I tested a couple of weeks ago was an "A" model. It had the little "A" sticker on the Ser. No. plate. Apparently our tests got delayed because JVC in Germany were doing quality control checks on the brand new demo camera. I assume they're doing this with all the European cameras.

April 17th, 2006, 06:03 AM	#13
Tim Ward New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Aberystwyth, Wales (thats NOT England) Posts: 15	Eric, Just to put on record, despite the dead pixel issue in the first few hours of use, so far I have seen no SSE and in every other respect this is a very good camera which I am very happy with. I agonised over the choice of a "budget" HD camera and after much research and looking at the specs of the Sony, JVC and Pana, I opted for the HD100 and don't regret it. Despite the many advantages of the detachable lens and 720p over 1080i etc, it was only a 100 quid more than the Sony which after all is based on a high end domestic camera. My cameraman friends all opted for the Sony and tried to make me do the same, but they now only use theirs where they would have used their PD150/170s previously. I wanted to get away form the small DV look and when converted down to SD the pics on the JVC look very good. The colour is not quite as rich but otherwise compares very well with Digibeta. The Sony has a more advanced conversion engine and a useful feature to enlarge the LCD image to assist focus but otherwise the JVC is more of a cameraman’s cam. It seems after Sony has dominated broadcast and pro video for so long that JVC have done their homework to break that monopoly. Just be mindful of a few who consider 720p as inferior to 1080i based purely on the number of lines. As all who have looked into this more deeply will know, this is not the case, but that’s another thread! Cheers Tim

April 17th, 2006, 08:15 PM	#14
Eric Brown Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 427	Awesome. Thanks for the input everyone. It will help me in making my final decision.

April 17th, 2006, 09:03 PM	#15
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	As those who have gone before have said correctly, the dead pixel fix is not irreversible and not endemic to JVC. It's fixable and once done, you have an awesome unit. We're shooting 6 of them and putting them through rough paces most people will never approach with no problem. It's a hit or miss deal. Fix it, be done with it and, like like the man said, "Don't worry; Be happy"!