ALERT: Power OFF before changing Firewire or switching HDV/DV

[David Kidd]

Same thing happened to me. I was in a hurry it was dark and I put the cable in upside down. It fried my main board in my camera. Cost me 1900.00 to get fixed so beware of doing what I did!!! the technician asked me if I had connected to a Mac. Seems there is a history with them.

[David Scattergood]

Happened on an old camera of mine...right in the middle of one of my first jobs. I had to go out and buy the cheapest firewire camcorder I could find to use as a tapedeck.
I now deal with connecting the JVC like I would if I were creating a house of flimsy cards!

Has anyone had experience of a blown firewire port whilst using the Kramer?
I spend a bit on one and still not entirely sure whether the piece of mind is justified?

On a footnote I think a monitor has recently blown on my iMac - cannot see footage on the 2nd monitor (and both the cable and 2nd monitor work ok) :(

[Steven Garay]

So I understand the part about powering off before connecting but is it necessary to power off BOTH devices before disconnecting the firewire from your cam. Someone else asked this question but no one answered.

[Randy Johnson]

You know I have to say this, this topic is really killing me mainly because I have 2 cameras a very small buisness its a side thing and I cant afford repairs like these. Im sorry if I rant a bit but I have been using Firewire since it came out I have swapped and swapped and never burned a port before this camera. I think the scary thing is from what I have read here and what techs have told me give me the impression that they dont know why there blowing. If its the voltage that sure a 4 pin adapter or port issolator would solve the problem because it removes the power yet they still tell us to power down even when switching the switch. I can understand why they want the 6 pin (strength and firmness) but then why cant they disable the power from within the camera? or better yet put in a fuse ro reset button? Ive heard other companys having firewire problems but not so many. After losing my ports I talked to the JVC rep about a deck asking if there would be a cheaper solution in the works maybe a deck that just played for ingestion. He told me they dont want to sell decks anymore they want to sell hard drives. Why would I buy a hard drive that is dependant on this seamilly flimsy firewire port? Im sorry im just a little frustrated right now I could be looking at spending the price of new camera (or close to it) to get my 2 cameras fixed.

thanks
randy

[Bill Pryor]

I've been personally involved with three different firewire drives that fried when unplugged with the power on, so I always turn off the camera or drive before unplugging the firewire cable. I know people who hotswap them all the time and have had no trouble, but sometimes it happens. I come from the old Avid scssi drive days when just looking at a drive the wrong way would fry it, so I still power down before attaching or removing the camera or drive.

[Randy Johnson]

Did these drives pull power from the bus or do they have a power supply?

[Bruce Foreman]

Originally Posted by Kaspar Stromme

Seems like a 4-pin connector on the camera would have avoided this issue. Anyone know why they put the 6-pin there in the first place? (power an external HD perhaps? The FireStores don't mention bus power though)

This is happening to several brands of cameras with a 4 pin port on the cam.

[Elijah Lynn]

This just happened to us this weekend with an XL-2. This is the second time it happened. After the 1st time Canon said to plug 6 pin in first then 4 pin into XL-2 then turn camera on. I suspect it to be the Firewire port on the mainboard because I just plugged my Sony TRV-27 in because I knew it worked and I brought a cable that I knew worked. No go. Tried another computer, no go, tried a 4 pin to 4 pin to my laptop, NO GO.

This is ridiculous. These manufacturers cannot even put warning stickers right on the cameras.

Some one should be responsible for this because a $300 repair for the XL-2 (the second time) doing it "THEIR WAY" is just silly especially since the downtime may end up costing us some big money. They should have mentioned getting a foolproof device to make sure this NEVER happens again.

I lost a nice little consumer camcorder too.

[Alex Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Randy Johnson

Did these drives pull power from the bus or do they have a power supply?

They don't draw power enough to operate, however they will recharge (draining your main battery while doing it.) The result is, assuming you have AB or IDX camera battery, your DTE will last longer in the field because it's pulling a little juice from the main battery during shooting recharging as it's still expending it's own battery. How much? I don't know.. I haven't paid attention, but I would guess 30 or more minutes... maybe more...

so DON"T leave it plugged into the camera and have your IDX/AB battery installed on your camera while traveling. You might find when you get there that you lost an hour or more of run time on your camcorder.. just to keep TOPPING OFF your DTE drive. It will drain your battery dead if ignored for a day... But no one should be leaving their battery intalled on their JVC's anyway while traveling or storing. Not that i did it myself at all. And if I did, I would CERTAINLY NEVER ADMIT TO IT HERE! :)

[Stuart Nimmo]

I've been very concerned to make my GY-HD 201E(b) firewire connection as foolproof as possible. An added urgency is that I have a lengthy hand-held shoot this week and while firewired to a wandering lap top computer..... A recipe for an inadvertent unplugging disaster if I ever saw one.

It seems to me that there are two basic problems:

1. Not to forget to power down before plugging or unplugging the firewire.
2. The danger of a plug being pulled out carelessly or inadvertently.

I think this solution for a 200 series covers both dangers and seems to work well.

What you need:

1. A dedicated 6pin-6pin firewire cable
2. a narrow roll of black stretch rubber auto-adhesive tape, (the kind used on pipe work that binds permanently with itself, NOT black plastic insulating tape).
3. A 1 1/2 foot length of Velcro The 'Hooked' faced half should be the strong auto adhesive type, the soft looped faced part should not be adhesive.
4 1 pr of sharp scissors

On the 200 series:

Just to the front of the HDV/DV switch and above the composite plugs there is a space on top of the camera that runs over the top, narrowing in front of the heat fins.

Shape a piece of the self adhesive hooked Velcro to fit this space and stick it snugly into that space.

Immediately under the firewire socket there's the slidable shoulder pad. If you carefully slide your fingers between the pad and the camera chassis, you'll find a dip in the pad with a flat plastic bottom, hidden inside the pad, just above where your shoulder makes contact with it.

Cut another strip of hooked self adhesive Velcro and stick it facing hooks upwards to the plastic base of the inside of the shoulder pad. This is fiddly, but you are already winning!

The Cable:

Cut some 4 inch strips of the rubber insulating tape, peal off the protecting layer. Wind a first loop very tightly (stretch it) around the firewire cable just so that it sticks to itself leaving a long piece hanging lose.

Loop a length of soft Velcro tightly over the rubber tape and around the Firewire cable leaving two long crossed ribbon ends protruding beyond the plug, (it will look like the yellow welcome home ribbon).

Bind the Velcro looped over the cable tightly with the lose end of the rubber tape. Again stretch this tight and onto itself so that the Velcro is frimley trapped under the tape just before the firewire plug, but with the two Velcro ends protruding above and below the V shape plug. you will now find that you can attach these Velcro ends tightly to the the camera top and inside shoulder pad Velcro, and the plug really wont fall or pull out.

To make it easier you can extend the Velcro attached to the camera and the pad with soft Velcro strips and overlap with a hook faced strip to catch the plug Velcro.


Use the same technique on the other end of the Firewire cable - I've stuck self adhesive hooked Velcro to my dedicated laptop above and below the firewire socket, now that end won't inadvertently come out either.

While the cable now sprouts lengths of Velcro, that goes a long way to avoid the power off problem because if that Velcro doesn't remind you to switch things off first, nothing will!

If it's not neatly done it may look a little like the aftermath of a road accident, but it works and could save you a $2000 repair bill

[Matt Lehman]

Stuart – very nicely done!

JVC – listen up, it’s time for you to step up to the plate and take a foam hammer to some engineers’ head.

I just recently purchased (eBay) a HD100U and suddenly realized the seriousness of this FireWire port issue. So, I have been following all of the advice so far (haven’t been able to build Stuart’s contraption but may engineer my own). I had a strange issue after shooting my first test footage and attempting to capture it using a Dell 630 with a 4 pin FireWire plug. Naturally, I needed to use a 6 pin to 4 pin FireWire cable to make the connection (using Sony Vegas Pro and/or Adobe Premiere Pro). It was very disappointing to watch the video capture (HDV-HD30P) start successfully then promptly started `seizing.’ I started troubleshooting everything I could think of and everything I could find online staying up into the wee hours of morning. The only thing that saved my camera from total destruction was its sexy shape and my wallet.

I decided to purchase a PCMCIA FireWire card with 6 pin ports and a new FireWire cable. I then placed both laptop and camera (on A/C power supply) on a table and connected the new FireWire components (cam powered down). Being extremely careful not to move any connection I started a capture using Vegas (expecting the worse) and pleasantly watched while it captured all of my test footage (differing frame rates - HD/SD) without issue. I also then tried out Adobe OnLocation with great success and a whooping holler from me loud enough for the dog to howl along.

So, I have no clue if I’ve just repeated someone else’s post but if I have kindly excuse me, I’m a tourist here (so far).

I hope someone finds this information useful…oh, and by the way, this camera rocks for what it is and I look forward to shooting some great shorts with it and different lens.

Matt

[Bob Hart]

This one is the third and counting.


The appropriate precautions have been taken in-house. Problem is that the camera goes out on client capture jobs after a shoot or hires.

I am trying to trouble-shoot for the owner. The camera in this instance is a HD-101.

It has had the DR-100 firmware upgrade. Last night, the DR-100 did not want to shake hands with the camera or could not. To be assured we had not mismanaged the DR-100, or that it had itself caught some affliction, I brought the camera home here to see if the firewire port was working.

The computer in HDV and DV modes does not see the camera in either Premiere Pro 2 or AspectHD, so it would seem it is fried wire time again.

Before I consign the owner to chucking himself down on the ground in a headbanging rage kicking up dust or jumping in the Swan with concrete boots on, I would hope that somebody could confirm the camcorder menu settings for successful HDV capture.

The JVC user manual to me is a bit if a handful and there seems to be no clear instructions on capturing via the firewire port beyond establishing that wires go here and there and that it works.


Existing Settings :-

External HDV/DV switch to HDV.

HDV PB OUTPUT 720P
PB TAPE AUTO

1394 REC TRIG. SYNCHRO
BACK SPACE [HDV] P-TAPE
DR-HD100 A. OFF "ON"

This camera is DRUM HOUR 000141H and FAN HOUR 000356H old, which makes this whole firewire issue all the more depressing, not the least being that by the time the ditch tax (cost of flying parts across the Pacific and applying some profit) is levied, plus workshop charges, the cost of fixing one of these things is about $1000-00.

Nobody offers to sell you the part for a fixit yourself solution.

The owner has two cameras. neither now worth a damn. He is thinking of sucking it up, forgetting about the DR-100, excellent solution it has otherwise been and shelling out for a ProHD deck and computer for in-house captures for clients except there has been some past bad press about the JVC decks too.

The DR-100 has been such an excellent tool for moving footage to client's computers, it is a shame that obscene umbilical cord is the crippling weak link in the whole workflow.

If anyone has any advice to offer regarding camera settings which might be hiding a perfectly functional firewire port, any advice will be appreciated.

Sadly it looks like wrist slashing time for the owner but while there is a chance of life in the firewire port, there is a parallel hope for the owner's wellbeing.

Final note. The captures to my computer from the JVC has been flakey, as in one good capture, then the next with pixellations, then the next good or maybe pixellated, a random thing. There is no such problem with the Sonys.

Sometimes, AspectHD reports "camera driver in a bad state" which requires the camera to be shut down and restarted, apparently one of those "learn to live with it and love it" things.

Any help or advice appreciated.

[Stuart Nimmo]

I now have a "field tested" and proven update to my last post and need to add one or two stills to illustrate my proposed preventative fix.

In the meantime JVC appear to care quite a lot about customer relations, I would think that they would be keen to make what is after all a known and disastrous design danger point, fixable at a very reasonable cost. They can't need much persuading surely as it would certainly win them a lot of loyal friends in these difficult times.

[Stephen David Smith]

I own a HD 110u and this whole fire wire issue is ridiculous! And has anyone had issues with a split screen thing. One side is a magenta while the other is a greenish... Issues with the CCD imager. Jas anyone had these same issues? I treat this camera like gold and there seems to be nothing but issues with it. My next buy will be a HPX HVX or Red.

[Stuart Nimmo]

I've now had the chance to fully test and improve my earlier suggested “preventative fix” against this fried firewire circuit problem. I doubt that it’s completely foolproof but it could help save a lot of money. I hope it helps:

Camera Engineers know this firewire problem well; it's not confined to JVC though these cameras do seem particularly vulnerable. One Engineering Company I respect set about producing a standard fix but finally told me that there are just too many different cameras and pieces of equipment fitted with firewire to make a universal solution viable.

I spent some time experimenting on my JVC GY-HD 201E(b) camera-Firewire-laptop set-up. If you have another camera you may be able to adapt it to your own needs, it's certainly worth a thought as damage is so common and repair costs are so high.

So, "Here’s one I baked earlier...” TAKE 2:

It seems that there are three basic problems:

1. It’s oddly easy to forget to “power-off” before plugging or unplugging the firewire connection.
2. The danger of a plug being pulled out carelessly or inadvertently is very high.
3. The danger of attempting to plug in a firewire upside-down is also very high.

All three are seriously dangerous especially if you hire out or lend the camera.

Forget my earlier idea of self-stick Velcro on the camera chassis, in prolonged studio conditions it gets hot enough for the Velcro slide. However, I found that Velcro on the computer/ recorder end of the cable worked well.

This NEW IMPROVED solution for GY-HD 200 series cameras addresses the three dangers. As earlier, a priority was to keep alterations to the camera chassis itself to an absolute minimum or none at all.

What I needed:

1. A dedicated 6pin-6pin firewire cable
2. A narrow roll of black stretch rubber self-adhesive tape, (the kind used on pipe work that binds permanently with itself, NOT black plastic insulating tape).
3. A 9 inch length of Velcro The 'Hooked' faced half should be the strong self adhesive type, the soft looped faced part should not be adhesive, (keep this Velcro for the recorder end of the cable)
4. 1 meter of non-stretch nylon cord
5. 1 small stainless steel “O ring” – like a very small key ring
6. 1 small, strong stainless steel spring clip
7. A short length of heat- shrink transparent wiring plastic tube (a diameter that before shrinking will slip over a firewire plug).
7. 1 pr of sharp scissors
8. 1 soldering iron

On the JVC HD-GY 200 / 250 series:


THE NEW CAMERA ANCHOR POINT.

Note, you can fix the “O ring” and “clip” the other way around as I did (see shot), but the following might be best:

Double the length of nylon cord, slip the middle fold through the “O ring” (or clip) and then the cord ends back through the cord loop. The “O ring” (or clip) is now trapped in the centre of the cord. Add a simple knot at each side and just before the trapped ring (or clip) and it wont slide.

Feed the cord over the top and under the GY-HD 200 series camera just behind the Firewire socket so that the “O ring” (or clip) is positioned exactly to the left side of the Firewire socket, the cord runs up and over the top of the camera (towards the front of the cooling fins) and down the left hand side of the camera (there is a neat channel there where the power/ component box is attached to the back of the camera chassis.

Feed the other end of the cord down under the camera behind and above the sliding shoulder pad and up the left side of the camera.

Note the “O ring” (or clip) is now carefully positioned parallel to and just to the left side of the Firewire socket. This is where you want it to be anchored.

Note: While the nylon cord won’t stretch, it will slip around the camera, so you now cure that:

With the “O ring” (or clip) in the correct position look at the top of the camera and note the exact points ON THE CORD where it curves over the top and down right and left sides of the camera. Lightly mark THE CORD at those camera edge points.

Remove the cord and tightly bind the marked spots with short lengths of stretched rubber tape. It will bond to itself and create two non-slip right-angled corners where the cord will run over the top of the camera and down the chassis sides.

Loop the cord back onto the camera (as it was) and you should find the “O ring” (or clip) positioned where it was, just to the side of the Firewire socket, and that when pulled tight, the cord will no longer slip.

You’ll now need to chose the best spot for the main cord knot (either at the bottom of the camera just behind the shoulder pad, or as I’ve done, at the bottom right side of the camera (below the firewire socket).

Being sure to keep the “O ring” (or clip) positioned correctly, tighten the cord and securely tie the knot. Before this main nylon knot slips VERY CAREFULLY cut and tidy the cord ends and seal the knot off (slightly melt in the cord ends) with the heated soldering iron. Needless to say, don’t risk touching the camera or yourself with the iron, both would hurt!

Your camera now has a strong anchor point (the “O ring” or clip); it’s now firmly fixed just to the centre left of the firewire socket.



THE DEDICATED FIREWIRE CABLE:

Note the top edge of the ^ shaped firewire plug and using a white indelible felt tipped pen, identify the top edge of the plastic bit of the firewire plug. Once dried cover the white mark with heat-shrink transparent wiring plastic tube and, making sure that the metal part of the plug is not covered, heat-shrink the tube. Now you will remember to check when plugging and always know the right way up!


Now fix the spring clip (or “O ring”) to the firewire cable far enough behind the firewire plug to cause a "swan neck" bend in the cable when it’s plugged to the camera and clipped to the new camera anchor point. Here's a picture - more follow.

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Camera end adapted firewire cable.jpg


Note that the top of the Firewire plug is marked by a white identifying stripe and you can see that if you pull on the cable, the strain will be taken by the clip and camera anchor point - not the fragile firewire connection. As you'll see I've done this with the clip on the camera cord and ring on the cable - it makes little difference.



I started by reinforcing and stiffening the camera end of the Firewire cable (to give it powerful spring) with more of the stretched rubber tape. Then, using a 3” length of cord I strapped the spring clip (or “O ring”) cord with a short length of the rubber self-bonding tape so that it was hanging behind, and to the left side of the firewire plug itself.

This end of the cable is now finished. Plug it into the camera and clip it to the “O ring”, it will produce the swan neck bend in the firewire cable which will hold the plug in tightly and is unlikely to accidentally pull out. The clip and “O ring” have transferred the “pull” to the cord around the camera.


Use the same technique on the other end of the Firewire cable - I've stuck self adhesive hooked Velcro to my dedicated DV Rack laptop (above and below the firewire socket), now that end won't inadvertently come out either.

While the firewire cable now sprouts lengths of Velcro, it goes a long way to avoiding messing up the “power off first problem” and if this contraption doesn't remind you to switch things off first, nothing will!

Those of you with other cameras may be able to adapt this same principle, I grant you that if it's not done neatly it may look a little like the aftermath of a road accident, but I now use this modification and assure you that it works. It sounds complicated but was easy enough to do and could save you a very expensive camera repair