Decision making

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Yes,
The BR50 deck will transcode tape content to 1080i or you can easily do it on any capable NLE's timeline.

That'll change the signal that the footage is carried within, but it won't change the look of the footage. It still won't have that "looking through a window" look.

The only way to get that look on the HD100 is to somehow record the analog component outputs. The live video output on the analog outputs is 60p. The HDV recording deck cannot record 60fps acquisition, it is limited to 30p.

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

That'll change the signal that the footage is carried within, but it won't change the look of the footage. It still won't have that "looking through a window" look.

The only way to get that look on the HD100 is to somehow record the analog component outputs. The live video output on the analog outputs is 60p. The HDV recording deck cannot record 60fps acquisition, it is limited to 30p.

So Barry are you saying that the motion smoothing filter doesn't work? BTW in answer to several questions in earlier threads Motion smoothing is intended for HD not 480i60 or 576i50. If we are comparing to the Z1U I think I'd prefer JVC's motion smoothing over Sony's fake progressive mode every time :)

And strictly speaking the 576P50 and 480P60 modes are HDV, not SD.

At the moment recording the analogue outputs is an expensive and studio bound exercise - you really wouldn't contemplate it on location.

As far as sports shooting goes you forgot to mention what is actually a distinct advantage of the JVC - a 20x lens that will get you closer to the action. Plus lets not forget that the lens is interchangeable (not that there are many options yet, but just wait - they're coming).

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

Has anyone come up with a solution to this? it IS a shortcoming afterall...
Is there a way to get a video like image in the hd100 in hd?

(There was a funny thread in some ENG forum with all these newsguys bitching that they couldn't get rid of the HVX200's filmlike appearance.)

The manufacturers are going for different niches in the market place. The HVX200 is intended to build on the DVX 100 which is progressive and a camera that the indie sector took to its heart.

ENG has traditionally been interlace, so perhaps they should've gone for the Sony Z1 rather than the HVX200, however, they might've gone (or their company) for the Panasonic because of the workflow.

Progressive isn't a short coming as such, but doing both progressive and interlace HD on the 1/3" cameras would put the cost up in a price driven market sector.

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by John Mitchell

So Barry are you saying that the motion smoothing filter doesn't work?

Depends on what you mean by "work". If you're asking if it simulates the "looking through a window" effect of 60i or 60p, then no it doesn't do that, nor is it intended to.

And strictly speaking the 576P50 and 480P60 modes are HDV, not SD.

They are HDV modes in that they're recorded using the HDV recording format, but they're not high-def resolution (they use the same frame dimensions as SD, but are recorded using HDV compression.) So they're not high-def; actually they'd qualify as EDTV (if you go by the ATSC chart); 480/60P accounts for three of the EDTV modes listed.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

That'll change the signal that the footage is carried within, but it won't change the look of the footage. It still won't have that "looking through a window" look.

The only way to get that look on the HD100 is to somehow record the analog component outputs. The live video output on the analog outputs is 60p. The HDV recording deck cannot record 60fps acquisition, it is limited to 30p.

Right, in the stricktest sense the transcode of the 720p footage to 1080i changes the signal but not the way it looks to begin with. I have tried mixing 1080i (Z1 and XL-H1) with transcoded 720p and making them match in interlace is a challenge.

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Depends on what you mean by "work". If you're asking if it simulates the "looking through a window" effect of 60i or 60p, then no it doesn't do that, nor is it intended to.

I guess I only meant does it work to the extent that helps smooth motion (ie fast action in the progressive modes, which is what our sports shooter was after). I really don't understand the "looking through a window" analogy, I really think the correct analogy is "more lifelike motion". Obviously the motion smoothing can't hope to simulate 60i in 24P but it does a better job than the Sony in reverse (even the Sony shooters avoid that Cine mode or whatever it is). 60P is clearly better again as it preserves resolution and motion.

Originally Posted by Barry Green

They are HDV modes in that they're recorded using the HDV recording format, but they're not high-def resolution (they use the same frame dimensions as SD, but are recorded using HDV compression.) So they're not high-def; actually they'd qualify as EDTV (if you go by the ATSC chart); 480/60P accounts for three of the EDTV modes listed.

Barry I learn something every day off you (well every day I read one of your posts that is). Just to clarify what I was saying (which was admittedly just semantics) while I understood they were not true HD resolutions, even JVC refers to them as HDV. I guess being progressive they also have the advantage of scaling much better than SD to HD. Hence EDTV. I like it - it's accurate.

[Sjoerd Banga]

Hi there, me again.

Well, this week i did a side-by-side test between the Sony Z1, Canon Xl2 and Canon XL-H1 (could not resist that one). I did not make extensive image-quality tests (seen enough of those), but tried them for ergonomics.

For me, the Sony Z1 is off my list now. Maybe it's because I have been a canon owner until now, but the handling of the Canon's fit me better. The main reason: they rest on my shoulder and I can get a real "grip" on both of the Canon's.

Because SD quality is still important for me I did some quick shoots in that format. If I would not take the jump to HD, the XL2 would be my choice.
In HD though I was flabbergasted by the pictures of the H1 (but that one is out of my budget).

So, next week It's time for the HD100E (hopefully the DSM-batteries are in stock over there) and on the 28th of april were leaving for New York to take a visit at BH. Only NAB and/or a disappointment next week can take me away from the HD100.

I will surely let you know about the DSM-batteries!

Regards,

Sjoerd Banga
The Netherlands

[Daniel Weber]

Originally Posted by Sjoerd Banga

So, next week It's time for the HD100E (hopefully the DSM-batteries are in stock over there) and on the 28th of april were leaving for New York to take a visit at BH. Only NAB and/or a disappointment next week can take me away from the HD100.

I would take a trip to Abel Cine in NYC instead of B&H. They will match the prices of B&H and you will actually get someone who will talk to you and show you the cameras.

I have been in B&H several times and it was always impossible to get anyone to talk to you.

check out www.abelcine.com

Dan Weber

[Sjoerd Banga]

Dan,

Thanks! I will check their site.
The main reason for me to go to BH is because they are selling PAL-camera's. If you know other shops that sell PAL-camera's for good prices I would be very glad to get their addresses.
Our trip wil be a few day in NYC then by air to Memphis and by car back to NYC. The biggest towns we pass will be Memphis, Nashville and the NY area.

Regards,

Sjoerd Banga

[Daniel Weber]

I think that Abel Cine can sell PAL models. give them a call or send them an email.

Dan Weber