HD100 Package at DVinfo.net

Jeremey Shelton · March 18th, 2006, 09:57 AM

I have been pricing out a package for the HD100. It would include:

1. HD100 w/ 16x Lens
2. 13x Lens
3. HD50U deck
4. Chrosziel 450-HD100KIT w/ follow focus
Approx. Total: $20,000

I guess my question is if this package is worth the money invested. This is another package I have considered:

1. Panasonic AJ-SDC905 (DVCPro 25/50 and 4:3/16:9 Switchable
2. Fujinon Lens A18x7.6 BDERM 16:9 /4:3 Switchable with Ratio Converter
3. Panasonic AJ-SD93 DVCPRO 50/25 Switchable Desktop VTR
Approx. Total: $36,500

Granted the $16,500 difference, but I am concerned about the quality difference between the two set ups. I would rather spend $36500 for an excellent setup, than $20K for something that isn't all I hoped it would be. So I am just looking for some feedback and thoughts.

I can shave a lot of money off the HD100 package without the 13x Lens, but does that lens make that camera? Does is change/effect the CA or SSE?

This is a HUGE purchase for a small company like mine and just want to make the right choice. I appreciate the help and advice! Thanks in advance.

Mike Marriage · March 18th, 2006, 11:32 AM

What kind of work do you need it for?

Tim Dashwood · March 18th, 2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremey Shelton

...I am concerned about the quality difference between the two set ups. I would rather spend $36500 for an excellent setup, than $20K for something that isn't all I hoped it would be.

Keep in mind that the $20000 setup is Progressive HD, and the $36500 is interlaced NTSC. I've never shot with the SDC905, but have used the SDX900 extensively and at $3500 more, it is an amazing camera for NTSC 24P/30P/60i recording DVCPRO50.
Another difference that will affect DOF: the Panasonic is 2/3" CCD, and the HD100 is 1/3".

If you are working with numbers like this, then maybe you should also be pricing out XDCAM HD. The F330 is 1/2" CCD, shoots 24P/30P/60i at 1080 to XDCAM discs (blu-ray) that only cost about the same as a Dbeta tape. You will need the companion deck. The MSRP of the F300 is $17000 without lens, so $500 more than an SDX900, but it is 1080 resolution and may become a standard HD camera among broadcasters (CBS has already heavily committed to XDCAM HD.)

Quote:

I can shave a lot of money off the HD100 package without the 13x Lens, but does that lens make that camera? Does is change/effect the CA or SSE?

Yes, there is a huge difference. However, you should test it yourself and deem its worthiness to you for the type of work you do.

Jiri Bakala · March 18th, 2006, 12:30 PM

I agree with Tim and just want to re-iterate; the world is switching (albeit slowly) to HD and you might find yourself regretting having a great camera that's "only" SD (such as the SDX900). It's true that you can uprez SD footage to HD but for some people it's also the marketing value of the package. The fact that you can say; we are an HD facility, could be the difference between getting the gig or not. If not today, likely next year and beyond.

Jeremey Shelton · March 18th, 2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Marriage

What kind of work do you need it for?

I shot so many different types of footage. From seminar and lecture, to sports and fitness, commercials. To be honest I don't want to buy anything that would prevent or trap me in any one kind of production.

Tom Chaney · March 18th, 2006, 12:57 PM

I picked up, and have been shooting with, the JVC for two months now. It is an awesome camera for the money.

My first thought when I saw the camera and its images at a seminar in Chicago was that this thing was a Varicam killer.

It is a great camera and shoots stunning images.

Rent one for a day and try it out. Make sure that you look at the images on a Hi Def system.

By the way, the seminar in Chicago also projected images from the camera transfered to 35mm film, and they were impressive as well. They convinced me to go with it.

Good luck,

Tom Chaney

www.tomchaney.com

Stephen L. Noe · March 18th, 2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremey Shelton

This is a HUGE purchase for a small company like mine and just want to make the right choice. I appreciate the help and advice! Thanks in advance.

Because you have said this I recommend getting under each camera and actually working with some of the footage. I have provided raw m2t from the HD-100 which you can put in your editing system and "play" with (without ever touching the camera). That way you'll have some understanding of the workflow.

The HD-100 is really a transformer and as agnostic a camera as you could get. Not only do you have the luxury of HD recorded to convenient tape, but you'll also have full rez 720p60 422 out of the component out's on the camera. The extra bread you'd have spent on the SD camera could be used for a Wafian or just saved.

NAB may bring some new lens' (I'm hoping) and certainly will bring workflow for many NLE's full circle with 24p. The HD-100's 24p IS 24p and the rez and color control speaks for itself (especially with the 13x lens).

Are you anywhere near Chicago?

Jeremey Shelton · March 19th, 2006, 07:55 AM

Actually I am in the southern most part of Illinois. Down by carbondale. I am taking all of your advice to heart. I really need to demo the HD100 and as you mentioned work with sme footage. None of my NLEs (FCP 4.5 and PP1) support it yet, but I am getting ready to order the update.

How valuable would you say the 13x lens is? I mention it costs more than the camera, would you say it worth that amount? Or should someone get a pair of the HD100s and a deck and you could cut some live venues. Just thinking out loud...

Tim Dashwood · March 19th, 2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremey Shelton

How valuable would you say the 13x lens is? I mention it costs more than the camera, would you say it worth that amount? Or should someone get a pair of the HD100s and a deck and you could cut some live venues. Just thinking out loud...

It's subjective. I myself value the 13x very highly, but I need the best optics possible for the type of work I do. If you are covering live events and not shooting dramatic work with rack focusing, or your project is not destined for the big screen, then you will probably not have any issues with the stock lens.

Steven Thomas · March 19th, 2006, 08:27 AM

Tim, based on your recent rez tests, the 13X is a sharper lens.

If one was to shoot identical static footage, would it be easy to tell the 13X lens? Assuming the cameras were setup to minimize any CA.

Tim Dashwood · March 19th, 2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Tim, based on your recent rez tests, the 13X is a sharper lens.

If one was to shoot identical static footage, would it be easy to tell the 13X lens? Assuming the cameras were setup to minimize any CA.

And both lenses were set to the same focal length? It would probably be tough for the layman to pick up on the differences, but if you showed it on the big screen there would probably be a big difference.

Steven Thomas · March 19th, 2006, 08:51 AM

Yes, that's what I meant by identical footage.

Tim, have you had a chance to try the lens Jonathan is using:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.p...4&postcount=11

It's sounds like a good deal at $2K.

Steve

Tim Dashwood · March 19th, 2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Yes, that's what I meant by identical footage.

Tim, have you had a chance to try the lens Jonathan is using:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.p...4&postcount=11

It's sounds like a good deal at $2K.

Steve

No, but a friend of mine bought a brand new in box Fujinon T17x5BRM4 for $100 from a Panasonic liquidation and I'm going to test it soon against the stock and wide lenses.

Stephen L. Noe · March 19th, 2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremey Shelton

How valuable would you say the 13x lens is? I mention it costs more than the camera, would you say it worth that amount? Or should someone get a pair of the HD100s and a deck and you could cut some live venues. Just thinking out loud...

I think it depends on what your shooting and how wide you need your view to be. Tim demonstrated the shooting angle difference between the 13x, 16x and 16x with wide angle adapter (attachment) and the is a dramatic difference between them. The 13x lens is very wide (70 degrees) and Tim displayed the resolving power of the 13x lens on another thead (which is much more than the stock lens).

What is your intentded use for the camera? Does it warrant the purchase of the 13x lens?

Jeremey Shelton · March 19th, 2006, 12:42 PM

Well, I shoot interview, seminar/live events, commercials, sports & exercise, etc. So there is some fast motion, which tends to make me a little nervous when I read how the progressive doesn't repsond well to that.

One of the main reasons I was looking at the 13x is because I thought it helped quite a bit with CA and it is just all around better glass. I had also read that in the newer HD100's, JVC has pretty well done away with the SSE. Is this correct?

March 18th, 2006, 09:57 AM	#1
Jeremey Shelton Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 25	HD100 Package I have been pricing out a package for the HD100. It would include: 1. HD100 w/ 16x Lens 2. 13x Lens 3. HD50U deck 4. Chrosziel 450-HD100KIT w/ follow focus Approx. Total: $20,000 I guess my question is if this package is worth the money invested. This is another package I have considered: 1. Panasonic AJ-SDC905 (DVCPro 25/50 and 4:3/16:9 Switchable 2. Fujinon Lens A18x7.6 BDERM 16:9 /4:3 Switchable with Ratio Converter 3. Panasonic AJ-SD93 DVCPRO 50/25 Switchable Desktop VTR Approx. Total: $36,500 Granted the $16,500 difference, but I am concerned about the quality difference between the two set ups. I would rather spend $36500 for an excellent setup, than $20K for something that isn't all I hoped it would be. So I am just looking for some feedback and thoughts. I can shave a lot of money off the HD100 package without the 13x Lens, but does that lens make that camera? Does is change/effect the CA or SSE? This is a HUGE purchase for a small company like mine and just want to make the right choice. I appreciate the help and advice! Thanks in advance.

March 18th, 2006, 12:30 PM	#4
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	I agree with Tim and just want to re-iterate; the world is switching (albeit slowly) to HD and you might find yourself regretting having a great camera that's "only" SD (such as the SDX900). It's true that you can uprez SD footage to HD but for some people it's also the marketing value of the package. The fact that you can say; we are an HD facility, could be the difference between getting the gig or not. If not today, likely next year and beyond. __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

March 18th, 2006, 12:57 PM	#6
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	Varicam Killer I picked up, and have been shooting with, the JVC for two months now. It is an awesome camera for the money. My first thought when I saw the camera and its images at a seminar in Chicago was that this thing was a Varicam killer. It is a great camera and shoots stunning images. Rent one for a day and try it out. Make sure that you look at the images on a Hi Def system. By the way, the seminar in Chicago also projected images from the camera transfered to 35mm film, and they were impressive as well. They convinced me to go with it. Good luck, Tom Chaney www.tomchaney.com

March 18th, 2006, 11:32 AM	#2
Mike Marriage Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NE of London, England Posts: 788	What kind of work do you need it for?

March 19th, 2006, 07:55 AM	#8
Jeremey Shelton Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 25	Actually I am in the southern most part of Illinois. Down by carbondale. I am taking all of your advice to heart. I really need to demo the HD100 and as you mentioned work with sme footage. None of my NLEs (FCP 4.5 and PP1) support it yet, but I am getting ready to order the update. How valuable would you say the 13x lens is? I mention it costs more than the camera, would you say it worth that amount? Or should someone get a pair of the HD100s and a deck and you could cut some live venues. Just thinking out loud...

March 19th, 2006, 08:27 AM	#10
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Tim, based on your recent rez tests, the 13X is a sharper lens. If one was to shoot identical static footage, would it be easy to tell the 13X lens? Assuming the cameras were setup to minimize any CA.

March 19th, 2006, 08:51 AM	#12
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, that's what I meant by identical footage. Tim, have you had a chance to try the lens Jonathan is using: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.p...4&postcount=11 It's sounds like a good deal at $2K. Steve

March 19th, 2006, 12:42 PM	#15
Jeremey Shelton Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 25	Well, I shoot interview, seminar/live events, commercials, sports & exercise, etc. So there is some fast motion, which tends to make me a little nervous when I read how the progressive doesn't repsond well to that. One of the main reasons I was looking at the 13x is because I thought it helped quite a bit with CA and it is just all around better glass. I had also read that in the newer HD100's, JVC has pretty well done away with the SSE. Is this correct?