HD100 and audio adjustments...

[Efrain Gomez]

Does anyone adjust the audio settings to the xlr in puts on the HD100 when shooting?

as in using the "Wind Cut" option, or changing the db settings?

:: efrain

[Stephen L. Noe]

Hi Efrain,

The regular audio conventions apply. You have manual control over the audio circuits input as well as manual level control. You'll get incredible results with a high quality mic like a great studio mic (Rode NT1a or AKG) or shotgun mic (senn me66) or wireless lav mic setup (senn ew100 g2). The stock mic is Terrible (with a capitol T). On the stock mic you can not get really good sound because the noise in the mic itself does not allow you to bring the levels up and still maintain clarity and a decent noise floor.

[Efrain Gomez]

radical. cool. that's why i had asked in a previous thread about switching the stock mics for like ambient sound.

i own an AudioTechnica 835b shotgun mic, and we might use some lavs with the HD100, so i'm hoping it's cool.

:: efrain

[Jim Giberti]

I haven't had a chance to really test the audio inputs on the HD100 in the studio yet (meaning A/Bing direct inputs versus external mixer preamp), but it's not just the stock mic that's going to have noise. Self noise is inherent in any preamp and as a rule, camera companies don't go over board delivering the best pres...that's not their first concern.

Whenever possible, with most any camera setup, your best off going with a quality preamp like the Sound Devices Mix Pre (which is akin to the Shure two channel field mixer...perhaps a bit better). You use that as your input source and keep the camera inputs closed down to a minimum.

As I said, I haven't tested the onboard preamps in the audio room through high end studio monitors, but I will soon.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

I haven't had a chance to really test the audio inputs on the HD100 in the studio yet (meaning A/Bing direct inputs versus external mixer preamp), but it's not just the stock mic that's going to have noise. Self noise is inherent in any preamp and as a rule, camera companies don't go over board delivering the best pres...that's not their first concern.

Whenever possible, with most any camera setup, your best off going with a quality preamp like the Sound Devices Mix Pre (which is akin to the Shure two channel field mixer...perhaps a bit better). You use that as your input source and keep the camera inputs closed down to a minimum.

As I said, I haven't tested the onboard preamps in the audio room through high end studio monitors, but I will soon.

Jim,

I measured -70db floor with 40' XLR attached to AKG Perception 200. I also had similar reading when I fed the camera from a Mackie CXF16mkII stage mixer. The preamps are great for a camera.

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Jim,

I measured -70db floor with 40' XLR attached to AKG Perception 200. I also had similar reading when I fed the camera from a Mackie CXF16mkII stage mixer. The preamps are great for a camera.

That's what I've been interested in hearing. Obviously, for serious narrative work you're not going to record direct to the camera, but I like to have that option and it's nice to be able to do if you're dealing with mostly lock down situations.

I'm glad JVC put in decent pres for that reason. I remember testing the XL2 against the Sound Devices in our room which is acoustically designed and treated and doing comparisons through our main console into the standard NS10s as well as big JBL studio monitors and the pres were so quiet and never needed to be pushed past the floor that we rarely bothered with a field pre.

Again, I haven;t had any need to date to record audio onto the HD100 but just having it on to record background and visual commentary, it did seem to require more gain than I'm used to. Where have you found the average gain setting Stephen?

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

That's what I've been interested in hearing. Obviously, for serious narrative work you're not going to record direct to the camera, but I like to have that option and it's nice to be able to do if you're dealing with mostly lock down situations.

I'm glad JVC put in decent pres for that reason. I remember testing the XL2 against the Sound Devices in our room which is acoustically designed and treated and doing comparisons through our main console into the standard NS10s as well as big JBL studio monitors and the pres were so quiet and never needed to be pushed past the floor that we rarely bothered with a field pre.

Again, I haven;t had any need to date to record audio onto the HD100 but just having it on to record background and visual commentary, it did seem to require more gain than I'm used to. Where have you found the average gain setting Stephen?

Conncected to the AKG I set the manual control and the gain between 3 and 4 and get a noise floor -65 to -72 db with spoken peak at -9db (approx 10" from the mic with pop filter). I think that is damn good. My Edirol UA-101 blows that noise floor away (-97db) but for a camera that is incredible don't you think? I mean my M-audio setup I used to have was around that same -65 to -70db range and I was thrilled with it for years.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Since no-one has really ever posted any audio from the camera with a studio mic plugged in I'll provide it to you Jim.

Click here for audio The camera's mic preamp 1 is connected to an AKG Perception 200 studio mic and the gain is set to 3 1/2. Hope you get something out of it.

BTW: The Senn evolution wireless setup is excellent and the reciever mounts directly to the camera's shoe.

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Conncected to the AKG I set the manual control and the gain between 3 and 4 and get a noise floor -65 to -72 db with spoken peak at -9db (approx 10" from the mic with pop filter). I think that is damn good. My Edirol UA-101 blows that noise floor away (-97db) but for a camera that is incredible don't you think? I mean my M-audio setup I used to have was around that same -65 to -70db range and I was thrilled with it for years.

Yeah...the specs look good. I'm in that place that I love so much, rewiring and installing new gear in the audio studio. It will all be done by tonight and then I'll get to do some listening with various mics and pres, but I'm hoping to use it straight for single mic use if it's that clean

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Since no-one has really ever posted any audio from the camera with a studio mic plugged in I'll provide it to you Jim.

Click here for audio The camera's mic preamp 1 is connected to an AKG Perception 200 studio mic and the gain is set to 3 1/2. Hope you get something out of it.

BTW: The Senn evolution wireless setup is excellent and the reciever mounts directly to the camera's shoe.

Sounds full and clean Stephen. It's funny how many people were/are skeptical about the HDV audio because of the compression issue. Granted, I'd like straight uncompressed for critical work, but I think most people would be surprised to learn how much broadcast audio is delivered to studios at 192 kbs MP3.

I work with a few talent houses around the country and I still download my takes as aifs, but most of the independent talent send their work as MP3s.

I like the Sennheiser gear and have that and AT wireless systems. I like the ME66 for run and gun situations but definitely prefer to use the Neumann and Schoeps for the critical stuff and any film work obviously.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

Sounds full and clean....

I know, I couldn't believe my ears when I first heard how clean it is. The stock mic hides the fact that the camera has very good preamps. Hook up a good mic, loop the cable through the stock mic holder and send it out to a boom pole. You'll get excellent sound and don't forget it does record PCM audio when recording HDV. It is found on the DV tracks. You can capture uncompressed audio if you want, very easily.

[Sean Adair]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

... don't forget it does record PCM audio when recording HDV. It is found on the DV tracks. You can capture uncompressed audio if you want, very easily.

I was under the impression from JVC that the uncompressed PCM audio was not actually implemted in a useable way. I certainly don't understand where to find it on an HDV recording on the DV tracks? Can you explain how you've accessed and used the uncompressed audio, Stephen? It isn't that I'm unhappy with the compressed audio BTW - The audio is much better than I expected.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Sean Adair

I was under the impression from JVC that the uncompressed PCM audio was not actually implemted in a useable way. I certainly don't understand where to find it on an HDV recording on the DV tracks? Can you explain how you've accessed and used the uncompressed audio, Stephen? It isn't that I'm unhappy with the compressed audio BTW - The audio is much better than I expected.

You can get PCM audio off your tape if you put your camera in DV mode and then capture the audio. This would require 2 captures (of the same tape) in order to get the video and the PCM audio. In the time I've been using the camera, I have not had anyone complain about the mpeg audio from the camera when using a studio quality mic. I've never needed PCM audio.

[Bill Ravens]

You may find that the onboard audio is acceptable for sources without a lot of dynamics and range. Push things to the limit by trying to record live rock music and I think you'll find quite a bit of unavoidable clipping of the audio signal.

[Sean Adair]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

You can get PCM audio off your tape if you put your camera in DV mode and then capture the audio. This would require 2 captures (of the same tape) in order to get the video and the PCM audio.

Thanks Stephen. I agree that it is only occassionally that it is required - but certainly valuable to know about - especially if the audio needs post-proccessing, or comes from a very dynamic source. Just to be sure I understand this workflow properly... First I capture my HDV normally (via firewire hdv). Then, I can switch to dv mode on the firewire switch, and capture the same program? I can set my editor (fcp) to capture only audio - but I wasn't aware this switch option was even available with HDC material.
I'm still in my first days with the camera, and I haven't got to investigating the post-production workflow yet, but I certainly hope to test this pronto.